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Why Do Xbox Players Get No Love?

Discussion in 'Xbox Discussion' started by AmtrakAcela75, Jun 11, 2021.

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  1. AmtrakAcela75

    AmtrakAcela75 Member

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    I been a fan of dovetail since the start of railworks and probably have over 700 hours on it and have bought plenty of dlc, I really wanted to play the new train sim world and at the time the only thing I had that could run it good enough was my Xbox one I even purchased the original founder edition of the great western, I have bought plenty of dlc for train sim world and was excited for train sim world 2 with what it could add and last year I was able to get my hands on a Xbox one x and experience the game on a even greater console but I'm starting to get very disappointed in dovetail and there forgetfulness of players and future players on Xbox. I do not know if you signed a exclusive contract with Sony or what but ever since train world 2 have came out there no sales on dlc on Xbox there been countless sales on PSN and steam both at the same time and yet just now there been one sale on the base game, I personally don't mind spending full price on games I really enjoy, especially new release like clinch field and southern high speed both releases I looked forward too but was disappointed when both PSN and steam got a discount for early purchases and Xbox got left out. And as a consumer it's starting to feel like I'm paying a Xbox tax for deciding to play on Xbox and it makes me regret buying this game and spending money on it. I get left out of every sale on dlc that I would love to purchase to enjoy your game more and play more and every new dlc that comes out I'm excluded from getting an early discount because I'm on Xbox. I do not know who makes the decision on this but I would love some kind of answer or solution or I can say I will only be buying dlc when they come bundle like rush hour. I hope this brings some attention to Xbox and it's players and hope Xbox players get a chance to experience more of your dlc even if they normally don't have the funds for the full price.
     
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  2. Sheldon1000

    Sheldon1000 Active Member

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    It is nothing to do with Dovetail. It is Xbox and Sony that ONLY decide when a sale is allowed. Nothing to do with Dovetail at all.
     
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  3. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    You need to complain to Microsoft about the lack of sales for TSW2 items.
    They are the ones who control what goes on sale and when.
    DTG have stated that if they are offered any sales slots on any platform, they will take them.

    Unfortunately, as Microsoft control the XBox marketplace and dictate what goes on sale and when, DTG can't do anything about it.

    Steam and PlayStation are more flexible when it comes to sales and offering slots.
     
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  4. AmtrakAcela75

    AmtrakAcela75 Member

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    I have asked Microsoft and every time they say it's up to the developers/publisher's to decide pricing, and I would understand that they only do it during sales slots but I don't think anything was on sale during the black friday sale and I'll be surprised if anything on sale for this e3 sale starting tomorrow
     
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  5. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

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    On Playstation you don't always get the discount. Sometimes it's there, sometimes not. On Xbox it's almost never.

    It is presented in such a way that it is not the publisher of the game who decides on the price, but the shop where it is sold. I find that hard to believe. Why shouldn't the publisher have any possibility to adjust the price? It is his product, not that of the shop.
     
  6. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    Based on what DTG has said over various livestreams, it seems that on consoles Sony and Microsoft provide publishers slots for sale periods throughout the year. DTG have said that they offer sales every time that Microsoft/Sony offer them slots. Compare that to Steam where significantly more slots are offered and far more often as well as increased control for when the sales can occur.
     
  7. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I've heard that many times. I just don't understand why you shouldn't be able to change the price of your own product. Should it really be the case that once the product is in the shop, you can never change it yourself?
     
  8. AmtrakAcela75

    AmtrakAcela75 Member

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    I understand the slots and picking them but why aren't they offer or allowed during big year end and game sales periods? Black Friday no sale on Xbox, Christmas? No sale the newest e3 sale that started today no sale on Xbox, while PlayStation have always constantly have had sales insync with steam, It just annoyeds me when PSN have tsw Canadian national Oakville subdivision for 13$ and it's not once drop from 29.99 other than getting 10% off with gamepass. The only sale on Xbox have been for the base tsw2, and I don't know how slots work weather it's per item or game but if they got a slot why not ask Xbox to let them sell the other dlc at a cheaper rate too? It just seems like dovetail haven't really cared about pushing for sales on Xbox.
     
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  9. bones.n.hombre

    bones.n.hombre Active Member

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    I totally understand, and share your frustration. However if you approach it logically, and ask yourself why ignore a share of your market when you are generous to the other shares?
    It clearly makes little logical sense for DTG to do that. Let’s face it it’s all money, wherever it comes from.

    I suspect that the sale windows offered to DTG are simply not as often on Xbox, exactly as they stated.

    I pointed out on a similar thread that I cannot buy Xbox games on my iPhone through the Xbox app, but I can buy PlayStation games. I think this is strong evidence Microsoft hold the reigns a lot tighter.

    I also think they actually loose money due to this, as I am wary to buy older routes that I want as I figure they will be the first to be offers at a discount if a sale happens, and I guess other people may feel the same.
     
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  10. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    Meanwhile I don't believe the excuse it would be all up to MS either. Even if it would be the case it would surely be possible to get in contact with them and explain the business model and necessity of sales. But I don't think that ever happened because...

    ... meanwhile we are even left out with updates, like with the BR 182 or
    ... serious bugs like sound loops are more or less completely ignored. Yes, they are sometimes talked about on streams but talking doesn't help the customer! And it is only TSW2 which has that issue.
    ... and many more which I'm not going into further detail again as the Tech Reports section is full of it, not even responded but most likely ignored as well.

    Sometimes I have to wonder how developing the game was even possible if those bugs and issues are all so difficult or hardly possible to solve...

    Maybe DTG doesn't rely on the money of xbox customers. That would explain much. Nevertheless I would like to support them furthermore but not under the current circumstances.
     
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  11. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    And Microsoft would care why? Microsoft have their own business model with XBox. DTG can go along with it or stay away from XBox. What won‘t happen is Microsoft treating a niche producer of a Train Sim differently from every other developer because they said pretty please.

    Fair point on the 182. Hopefully, you‘ll get an answer on the next roadmap stream.

    Hardly XBox specific. PS users have had their fair share of exclusive issues as well. Some were addressed, some weren‘t. This isn‘t so much an issue of XBox issues being ignored, but a lack of proper testing on consoles in general. On the plus side, Matt tests more stuff on consoles now and a fix for the XBox audio issue is in the works. Much too late for you perhaps, but at least it‘s coming.
     
  12. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Where in your summation have you included that MS would want to be paid for the price change, and of course take their cut of all sales?
    Lest we forget Microsoft stopped making the bulk of their money from Software about a decade ago, and now make loads more from subscriptions and fees to "sales partners", in other words, if you do anything with or through them they take a big fat fee and then commission too
     
  13. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Dovetail Special Projects Staff Member

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    The answer to that is that it could be abused by unscrupulous publishers. For example, a game could have a full price of $50 but only be offered at various discounted rates from 50% to 75% making it look like a really good deal for players, when in fact it'd be entirely misleading because it's never sold at full price. Making something look like a great deal simply by discounting it heavily is a tried and tested way of increasing sales. If you had nothing to stop you doing that it could easily be abused.

    We take every sale window we're offered on Xbox and mirror the prices across every platform. If we could offer more sales we would do.

    It's also worth noting that TSW is available on Gamepass - which is Xbox only, there is no subscription option for other platforms.
     
  14. JasonARJ3125

    JasonARJ3125 Well-Known Member

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    And its this that makes me think why sales on xbox are all but dead in the water, because tsw 2020 being on game pass would be xboxs deal breaker to get new players In then get them to buy tsw 2 etc.
     
  15. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Dovetail Special Projects Staff Member

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    Not so. We get the same level of sale opportunities for Train Sim World 2 as we did before joining Gamepass, and it's the same range as every other title of our size on the platform.
     
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  16. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about the regulations that you need to abide to in the UK, but here in Germany this is actually a legal issue that can get you in trouble. We call it "Mondpreise" (moon prices) since the initial price was never really asked for to begin with. There is alot that goes into it here, even the time frames between offers have to indicate that the RSP is the actual price that it is sold for, rather than the item being constantly on sale.
    If any of this is found out, you will get warning letters from competitors or competition associations for unfair price advertising, maybe even from the costumer protection agency.

    So I can fully understand that it is the way it is, on the forums it seems like cases like these are made out to be easier than they are. Which is fine, since not everyone will have the niche knowledge, but to think that for some shady reason the playerbase of a certain gaming platform gets maliciously/deliberately left out is far too much conspiracy imo...
    There is too much guessing and conjecture rather than directly asking or researching as to why it is the way it is.
     
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  17. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    Because Microsoft gets their margin from every sold item in the shop and have an interest to squeeze a maximum profit out of every product. Of course begging is not going to be very successful but instead a plan with expected income surely would do better. It probably won't matter that TSW is a niche product anyway because the main thing rich companies or people want is usually making more money. And what I have learned in working with that type of people is that even very small amounts do matter for them. So it might be at least worth a try to approach this professionally - this is what my customers would expect me to do as well.

    Yeah, fair point for you here, my first post was a bit short on that. Of course PS has its issues as well but at least the advantage of some sales over the time...
    Although I encourage and deeply respect Matt and his efforts here I think they should not be necessary if a more serious approach towards 67% of the playerbase would happen.

    For a game like TSW which extremely relies on DLC sales it is the worst case that a majority of the players leave before reaching the first achievement... Long term customer relationships are far more essential than in other games. Yet the opposite is happening.
    I don't have exact numbers here yet but when you look up how many % of the players unlocked a certain achievement you won't find much above 20%...

    I would describe myself as a very patient person, at least my wife says my patience drives here crazy sometimes, but... yes, I fear. It's one thing talking about it in Roadmap streams but this doesn't change the product quality for the customers. This change only happens when fixes are actually released. Look at ECWs upgrades or the Bakerloo stuff... although I understand some of the background issues with that it's simply unacceptable from a customers perspective no matter which circumstances are causing it. This leads to the current situation where only a few very supportive users stick to TSW for a long time...
     
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  18. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely agree. Maybe Sam‘s talk about trying to test if products are good enough instead of just the usual QA will pay off. We‘ll see in the coming months, I guess.

    Fair point. If Adam‘s patch for LIRR and RT has taught us anything, it‘s that we shouldn‘t get excited about a fix until we see it released and can judge the quality ourselves.
     
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  19. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

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    In other words, Microsoft says when you can sell something and at what price?
    And they also decide that in a sale only the main game is offered at a lower price, but no DLC?

    What value does TSW 2020 still have for you and the customer? There hasn't been any new DLC or updates for a long time. Why should you still invest money in it? Except to enjoy NEC, which you still deny porting.
     
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  20. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, you destroyed your own point. Steam offer more sale windows.

    And saying "lack of love" is absolutely false, there is no purpose behind it and it's purely based on the console. Because they have no reason to do otherwise. In the long run it probably makes them more money through sales with more people buying it.
     
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  21. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    This is very misleading.
    They have stated time and time again that, it would be Easier to just rebuild NEC: New York because it's such a mess.
    Plus your getting Boston - Providence so I don't see why your having a go at them.
     
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  22. drdavewatford

    drdavewatford Member

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    In which case since the start of 2021 that's precisely zero sale windows you've been offered on DLC, by my reckoning. Six months without a sale on anything except the base game, during which time other platforms have had multiple discounts! You are losing money because of this - having previously hoovered up a ton of DLC I'm now done with further purchases until XBOX users get some love, and I'm definitely not the only one. Time to put some pressure on your MS account manager, maybe?
     
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  23. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

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    And what stopped them from doing that? Because they had already planned to bring the other route?
     
  24. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Sell your old TSW 2020 DLCs on your Website for 50% sale like West Somerset Railway, Tees Valley Line and the Loco DLCs.

    That’s should be the best way to get money without need paying Tax to Microsoft
     
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  25. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    No, because it's quite daft asking people to buy the same route again isn't it?
     
  26. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    And yet EA sells the same things time and again just by putting a different number at the end...
     
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  27. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Well this ain't EA is it.
    Plus the sports games (which I presume you refer to) are mostly bought because people want the updated stuff.
    Plus comparing a AAA game with millions of players to a TSW DLC is I bit out of proportion.
     
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  28. friskey.marcedes

    friskey.marcedes Member

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    Couldn't DTG make more of an effort to offer discount vouchers for their customers - small example Rivet gave you £5 voucher for completing their game survey and as a much bigger company DTG £0.00.
    They also used to offer competitions for DLC codes but recently nothing.
    Its not just about blaming microsoft there is a bigger issue as to how loyal gamers are (not) rewarded...
     
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  29. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    As someone who's bought just about every TSW/TSW2 product available on Xbox, I find DTG's explanations about pre-order/launch discounts very lacking.

    Just about every piece of shovelware that comes down the pike on Xbox has a pre-order/launch discount- I'm not talking AAA games, where presumably the big publishers would have more leverage with MS; if you know the Xbox store, you know what I'm talking about. We've had precisely one pre-order/launch discount (the base TSW2) in the past year, and this has nothing to do with sale "slots" and I've never heard a reason from DTG as to why that is the case. If they have an agreement with Sony to only offer the pre-order/launch discount on Playstation, I can accept that, but they should be transparent about it.
     
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  30. AmtrakAcela75

    AmtrakAcela75 Member

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    your point about older routes is true i waited a bit hoping that the oakville subdivision would go on sale at some point but the only discount you can get is the 10% off from gamepass, while on PlayStation you can pick it up for 13$
     
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  31. AmtrakAcela75

    AmtrakAcela75 Member

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    i would understand that but it seems like xbox gives you zero windows for sales if that's the case why not tell ms that your customers would like more sales, xbox currently suppose to be pro-gamers but not giving slots even to niche games seem very unpro explicitly when PlayStation have sales on thus titles. and i know tsw on gamepass but its almost 4 years old at this point and tsw2 is the replacement again it would make sense if both tsw and tsw2 was included and both tsw and tsw2 dlc was included in gamepass 10% off but its only the original and none of the new or old dlc been given a sale since tsw2 been released.
     
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  32. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    I think replacing TSW with TSW2 on Gamepass (after a reasonable warning period) and giving the 10% off DLC for Gamepass members would be a customer-friendly way to balance out the lack of regular sales and pre-order/launch discounts. It would also probably drive sales of TSW2 DLC.

    TSW2020 is a dead game at this point.
     
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  33. bones.n.hombre

    bones.n.hombre Active Member

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    DTG are better than some others

    Take for example Zen, who are also updating their base game (Pinball) and have stated that you will have to repurchase all your tables again to play in the new ecosystem.

    Shocking
     
  34. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

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    Take the new US route out of Rush Hour and sell it later separately and put NEC in. I think that would not have been a big problem with the community.
     
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  35. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Two successive paid yearly updates (I know Rush Hour isn’t technically that but…) featuring only a reworked route for US players and then immediately afterwards a full price US route. I think that would be treating US players (especially on PC) with contempt if I’m honest. Not so much of an issue for console players as SPG was completely new to TSW2 but still an issue for people who want something entirely new, seeing brand new UK and German routes both times. Suggesting that they do that now, after the announcement, is a bit like showing a child a wonderful birthday cake the day before their party and then not having that cake at the party but instead giving them the crumbs of last year’s cake reformed into the shape of a caterpillar, and later offering them the good cake for all of that week’s pocket money.
     
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  36. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say they should do it now, but that they could have done it from the beginning.
    I also said that they could have brought the new route later. I didn't mean right after.
    The DLC has 3 routes for the price of one, so it would have been no problem to do that and no big upset to expect.
    Of course they can't change anything now, it's too late for that.
     
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  37. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Then they'd be kicking American Passengers to the curb again. Giving them an old route remade rather than a new one.
     
  38. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

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    Setting too many freight routes was already a mistake in advance.

    So it's better to have one route quickly instead of two in the meantime?
    I don't really understand why people would rather not have NEC at all.
     
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  39. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Only freight routes are boring to drive.
    I like Passenger routes the most or a mixed between both
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
  40. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Because Microsoft clearly gives preference to the big distributors: EA, Bethesda, Ubisoft, Blizzard, Square Enix and Microsoft/Turn 10 itself. DTG and the other small studios are left fighting over the scraps. ("But I see lots of little indy games on sale all the time," somebody says. That's because those little indy games are effectively on permanent sale, the equivalent of the remainder bin).

    It also doesn't help matters that TSW2020 is perpetually on MS GamePass. Since MS wants to sell GamePass subscriptions, they don't want to undermine that by offering sales of the same games to non-GP holders.
     
  41. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    On 9 November is Forza Horizon 5 release from Mexiko.
    This graphic we need in TSW 2 on the new consoles
     
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  42. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

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    Is a completely different engine and a different approach of game.
     
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  43. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    True but shows what's possible with the new generation consoles and graphics cards.
     
  44. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    You Can See like 5 to 10 Kilometer The Textures and Buildings, and on TSW it’s just load like 10 Meter before your Train first, or the train is just not showing full on the tracks because the graphics can handle the situations.
     
  45. drdavewatford

    drdavewatford Member

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    This is true, but to be fair to DTG I suspect they don't have a fraction of the resources available to Forza Horizon 5 developer Playground Games.

    We can dream, though - FH5 looks absolutely spectacular!
     
  46. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Dovetail games need Microsoft as publisher for Train Sim World, they make amazing work with the Microsoft Flight Simulator and on Forza Horizon, this all we Need in TSW 2 amazing graphics and no more issues with the draw distance and texture loadings.
     
  47. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    Gotcha so DTG still makes the game but Microsoft publishes it and suddenly all the graphics will be improved. Right this is how it works. Why are even talking about forza in a thread about lack of sales in the Microsoft store?
    Why are talking about forza outside of the off-topic section at all? This game has zero relevance for Train Sim world.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
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  48. WVUadam

    WVUadam Well-Known Member

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    As TSW is on Gamepass how come not all the dlc is on offer which its supposed to be. Considering its between the publisher(DTG) and microsoft you could add TSW2 to game pass.
     
  49. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Also Bus Simulator 21 which is made by Astagron which is a small company will have a pre order for bus simulator before release.

    The lack of sales for tsw2 is quite odd considering back in tsw2020, there were sales for routes and locos. I managed to get RRO and East Coastway for sale not long after getting tsw2020 last year. If there were sales for the old game then why not the new game?

    Also why is tsw2020 still on gamepass. That game is effectively dead at this point. DTG should put tsw2 on gamepass and remove tsw2020 from gamepass
     
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  50. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    No thanks. With Microsoft‘s current console market strategy, it would mean that we could say goodbye to TSW on Playstation.
     

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