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Why Do Xbox Players Get No Love?

Discussion in 'Xbox Discussion' started by AmtrakAcela75, Jun 11, 2021.

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  1. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    I would consider Forza more as a benchmark of the maximum possible at the moment and in no case competition for TSW.

    Most likely all overall sales of all DLC TSW gained on all plattforms is about the number a Forza title gains in one minute on release day.

    It's more like a target of what is like to be achieved in several years. And that's fully ok, if it comes to train / car models TSW can already cope with Forza anyway. In fact, especially the interior design is even better imo...
     
  2. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    not necessarily.
     
  3. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It's all about the Benjamins.

    Microsoft can spend a kazillion dollars and employ a stadium capacity of people developing each iteration of Forza, because they know it will have blockbuster sales figures and generate a positive return on even a very big investment. DTG can't do that with TSW or TS, because the market for rail simulations is only a tiny fraction of the market for car-racing games.
     
  4. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    Also consider that TSW is a highly realistic simulation. Most other games out there are not. TSW has complex background calculations for things like train physics with many factors like weather, track, and gradient affecting the them. This means that DTG don’t have as much dev time and budget to solely focus on graphics, and it also means that those Forza level graphics are probably just not possible since system resources have to allocated to the complex physics engine. TSW just isn’t like most other games.
     
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  5. AmtrakAcela75

    AmtrakAcela75 Member

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    and dovetail continue to amaze me as currently there a simulator sale going on xbox and only the base game of tsw 2020 and tsw 2 are on sale, you cannot tell me xbox didnt give you extra room to put dlc on sale when the sale is dedicated to simulators, i really tell you dovetail think xbox players are fools and will spend more on dlc. I'm not i have both pc and ps4 and when those platforms have sales, xbox should too if xbox doesn't provide them fight for em, to me you don't really care about selling discounted dlc and just want more people get the game cheap and to spend full price on xbox, shame on dovetail.
     
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  6. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Yes I can.

    This would be the same DTG which puts DLC on sale all the time for PC and Playstation?

    Do the math, Sheldon: which variable has changed?
     
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  7. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    We all just need to be patient,they say goods things come to those who wait,because theres nothing else we can do.
     
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  8. Rutgerski

    Rutgerski New Member

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    Maybe TSW didn’t sell enough copies on Xbox for DTG to care enough? Do we have any numbers? Frankly I don’t really think the slots story makes sense. Perhaps there’s some kind of misunderstanding between DTG and Microsoft, at best. Didn’t we used to get more than two pieces of DLC on sale in the past anyway? I can see that the game PC Building Simulator is on sale right now plus 5 pieces of DLC. So come on DTG.

    With the countless PSN sales this past year I’ve been thinking about switching to PS5, but then again that doesn’t make sense considering the amount of DLC that’s tied to my Xbox :/ Now if DTG were to offer cross-platform support I would definitely switch…
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2021
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  9. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    Look i'm not gonna pretend there not something weird about all this,but we just have to wait and see what happens and see if dtg can get past whatever hurdle has cause this impass,right now it's up to dtg and MS to hammer out something to get every back to a even playing field.
     
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  10. AmtrakAcela75

    AmtrakAcela75 Member

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    Even if it doesn't sell well on Xbox it doesn't make me wanna say you gotta get this on Xbox instead of playstation I'm gonna end up telling friends to buy it on other consoles. The main reason I'm very upset is i just purchased a series x and that's going to be my next gen console for the next 2-3 years until the ps5 drops in price or have a huge back library of exclusives. So it makes me annoyed that even if I wanted to switch to the ps4 version it would be the worst Version. And I do feel like almost all games should have cross save/progress in the future but Sony is making that very unlikely with demanding a part of sales if they don't make a high percentage of psn sales vs psn players, I still think this is extremely wrong and wish more people would tell Sony it wrong.
     
  11. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    Look even waiting patiently for a sale has it's limits as well,if dtg doesn't try and do something at some point this topic will come up again and again and again,dtg can sweep this topic under the rug all they want but people will be tripping over that rug when that pile gets to big.So if we are willing to wait,it should be rewarded at some point.
     
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  12. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Its all excuses from DTG why they don’t put all DLCs on sale, like on PlayStation.
    I feel scammed as Xbox user.
     
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  13. Rutgerski

    Rutgerski New Member

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    Interesting insight into the woes of getting your game published on PSN by an indie dev:

    https://twitter.com/NeonIain/status/1410184914943631365

    So apparently 'Discounts are invite only and invites are also "very limited"' on PSN. On the other hand, seeing the amount of discounts DTG has been offering on PlayStation, they must have an excellent relationship with Sony. According to this dev, Xbox (and Nintendo) are much easier to work with. How come DTG's presence on Xbox is so lacklustre, then? Apart from TSW on Game Pass (which got me hooked on this game in the first place).
     
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  14. ade4472

    ade4472 Member

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    Perhaps the way forward would be to get the TSxxxx series compatible with Xbox then with the amount of dlc available sales would be regular across all DTG games. There wouldn’t be all the want for different routes or Locos as they have so many the options would be incredible…….but they won’t do that when TSW, to a degree, is a Xbox / PS cash cow.
     
  15. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    I was wondering if anyone would mention this. Pretty interesting stuff, if true. This dev obviously has a beef with Sony, but sounds like the info has been at least partially confirmed by other sources. Hopefully more details will emerge.
     
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  16. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    The whole reason TSW was created in the first place was because TS classic runs on a very old engine from 2009. As a result, it would be impossible to bring it to any console, and it's showing its limitations even on PC. TSW is definitely the focus and future for DTG.
     
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  17. AmtrakAcela75

    AmtrakAcela75 Member

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    watched a very interesting video today with big points from indie devs working with both Microsoft and Sony with quotes via kotaku, developer talking about how invites either ask for very high discounts or offer lower and end up not getting sales, below is someone else who said that they said they get and invite and never did. [Access to sales was the other large aspect of Garner’s invective. This, too, has been confirmed by developers and publishers who reached out to Kotaku. “It’s the worst,” one indie publisher told me. “You can only get invited to Promotions these days. You cannot set up custom discounts anymore, no publisher/developer sales. And these invites are...LOVE insane. They propose usually something around 40-50 percent by default and you have to make a counter proposal. You will always ask yourself, ‘LOVE, I have to offer them 30 percent or they will exclude me maybe.’ With the same time on other platforms, if you are trying to go for a stable price policy... god, it just ruins the strategy and it is frustrating.”] [Cristian Botea publically tweeted, explaining just how hard it is to be picked for a sale. He added, “Good luck fighting your way through copy pasted messages that tell you to wait for the invite that will never come.”] all of this is on playstation while another dev had this to say about id@xbox [ “It helps every part of the process,” one indie publisher tells me of Microsoft’s quick responses. Eric Freeman, independent developer of Deja Vu, tells me over Twitter, “Besides their cut for sales we’ve never been asked for money. And everyone on the ID@Xbox team have been incredibly nice and responsive.” He went on to detail how Microsoft have repeatedly invited them to be in sales, making the process simple.

    “Heck, they invite you to shows,” another publisher tells me. “They not only invite you if you are already popular, they try to invite quality games no matter if you know them already. And Game Pass. Game Pass is a thing and it offers good value.”] all this really sounds like is dovetail is more interested in that 115 million ps4 and growing ps5 than the lower xbox one and future series consoles, even if they given the chance to have sales it seems like they choose not to put dlc on discount while on playstation they more likey to care about sales on both since the player base is larger and playstation themselves might push dovetail to do so. i don't know how much power dovetail have since to me they are neither indie noir a bigger studio like the former studio codemasters (who are now owned by ea, meaning most likey there next games will be triple a games), there somewhere where scs is, who to me care way more about there game and community then dovetail ever will giving free trucks and fixing old maps years after release. (i do understand trains and trucks are different but both need people to model and get sounds and rights yet scs does this for free, even while giving there game for 5$ almost every steam sale) in the end i still feel like this is still on dovetail no matter how many people and staff says otherwise. dovetail is the ones who decide weather to fight for sales and promotion and/or be lazy and ignore it. hopefully since i constantly see people complain both on facebook and twitter about xbox sales things start to change, maybe we might even get cane creek launch discount. but for now all i can say is to keep speaking up like all these devs are.
     
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  18. AmtrakAcela75

    AmtrakAcela75 Member

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    and to add one final thing since i now have read 2 threads about the same topic and both have been closed because people keep discussing this, silencing the consumer does not make you look like the good guy or make me wanna support you if people want to talk about this they should be welcome too if it gets to aggressive or hateful then take action against that individual and not the whole thread. like any game,show or book people love to endless talk about that topic. even if it keeps going around as long as it stays civil people should be allowed to do so. gaming is a part of most people in the community and we all just want to discuss how things should change or be made better. i will definitely be making a thread on xbox about the same topic and hope that ms might see it and talk to dovetail more. and personal i do not blame noir dovetail or ms but i do think the comminution between both should be better and to me this whole last week of ps being slammed by indie devs for poor support and low and difficulty getting sales and most saying xbox works better at talking and sales makes me really feel weird about how ms is treating dovetail. even games like pc simulation got there dlc onsale so even the "only base games get sales" argument kinda falls apart. again thanks for everyone who have added to this post about a game everyone loves.
     
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  19. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I don‘t want to add any more oil to the fire, but could someone tell me what your working theory is? All of the experiences of other studios are well and good, but I doubt it‘s the same for every studio. Surely no one actually wants to imply that DTG purposefully exclude XBox players from sales while literally all other platforms get them regularly? That would be an extremely odd business tactic and I doubt any of DTG‘s higher up money people would think it‘s a good idea.
     
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  20. bones.n.hombre

    bones.n.hombre Active Member

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    I agree with this, as frustrating as I understand it feels, it makes no business sense for DTG to ostracise a certain percentage of their player base, and I imagine they are not deliberately doing so.

    I bought Carthcart and SEHS at full price and felt they represented great value for money, against time spent playing them. However I have less interest in say Clinchfield or the upcoming Cane Creek, so I would wait for a sale, and then revisit.
     
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  21. drdavewatford

    drdavewatford Member

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    Value-wise it looks like Rush Hour will offer reasonable value for money. All other DLC is off-limits from my perspective until it's discounted on XBOX like it is everywhere else.

    As previously stated, I think most TSW DLC is very poor value for money at full price. £11.99 for a single locomotive, for instance. In many cases you're getting a single digital asset and a few programmed scenarios for your money and that's literally it. Compared with a AAA game of a similar age and containing much more content which can often be purchased for the same or less it constitutes shockingly poor value for money. Even so, many of us really want to support DTG and its partners because we enjoy the game and want the game (and the companies involved) to thrive so we can get more content, but this symbiotic relationship breaks down when we feel like we're being screwed, and the activity on these sales threads seem to suggest that many XBOX players feel exactly that way.

    DTG ignores these threads, and all the bad feeling, at its peril. I've personally shelled out well over a hundred pounds for DLC over the last couple of years, and I'd planned on eventually picking up everything I don't already own (at a cost of £150+) when the price is right - even a modest discount of 20%-30% is usually enough to make me jump. It won't happen without a discount, though. If you want my money then you'll have to do a lot better than "we hear you but we can't do anything" which is frankly hopeless.
     
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  22. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    I'm really don't get what people don't understand about this.
    I'm critical of DTG, when I have to be.

    And this is not a reason to be.

    Xbox players amount to around a third of the playerbase.
    So for what reason on Earth would they have to cut a third of the playerbase out of sales?
    The only reason that makes any sense is it a Microsoft thing, the official story, by the way.

    We know DTG aren't sale shy, look at PC.

    I agree that £25 for a route is a bit much - I think £20 might be better off, but we need to remember that it costs them money to make these routes, and they need to cover that and make a profit.

    And with Rush Hour coming up soon you're getting 3 routes for 1, so cheer up!
     
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  23. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Dovetail Special Projects Staff Member

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    We'll keep this thread open for you to discuss the topic at your leisure, but please keep it civil. You're entirely welcome to speculate, theorise or make up reasons why the status quo is as it is, but to recap what we've already said:
    We offer sales as often as we're permitted to on every platform. That we're able to run sales more frequently on other platforms isn't a slight on Xbox players, rather, it's because we are unable to offer more sales on Xbox than we currently do.

    We know you'd like more sales. We have requested more on your behalf.
     
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  24. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the efforts. I guess we can all only hope they will be successful in any form anytime soon but time will tell.

    By the way as your attention is already on this thread would it be possible for you (or anyone else who feels spoken to) to share some information about the still missing BR 182 update or the sound loop bug?
    As the thread title is mentioning 'missing love' for xbox users here are some super annoying examples which in the meantime lead me to stop playing TSW and considering not to buy even Rush Hour anymore. I don't want to take this as a status quo but the fact that I could purchase 13 months of GamePass for the price of 2 TSW DLC didn't help very much on that occasion either. So if you could share something like 'will be released alongside RH' or 'is in testing, stay tuned to unmute your TV' that would be very welcome.
     
  25. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Dovetail Special Projects Staff Member

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    The dev team are aware of it. As soon as there's any further information we'll let you know.
     
  26. wombleway

    wombleway Well-Known Member

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    I think you'll find that the threads you're referring to both descended into chaos... As for not closing the threads at that point, why would they be kept open? They'd been derailed, there are multiple threads complaining about the same thing already, so there's no need to keep these open as well.

    Personally, I find the repeat threads a bit tiresome now... Yes, as an Xbox X user I'd love to see discounts and sales as much as the next user, but as DTG have stated many, many times before, it's not for the lack of trying. It makes no business sense for DTG to lie about this, so until such time as Microsoft say otherwise I'm happy to work on the principle that what we've been told is true.

    Of course, there are those who won't accept this, but that's their prerogative - but complaining in new threads every week isn't going to change anything.

    If you can afford it and you want the DLC, you'll buy it regardless... If you're not, then don't. Nobody's making anyone buy anything, people can continue to play the base game with the standard routes if they're that bothered.
     
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  27. AmtrakAcela75

    AmtrakAcela75 Member

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    i can say even myself will most likey buy rush hour due to it being 3 routes for basically 10$ a route and also adding that i always wanted the mbta to be in the game and its a route i constantly railfan, but otherwise i dont think ill be picking up any dlc until the next route bundle like rush hour
     
  28. AmtrakAcela75

    AmtrakAcela75 Member

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    thank you
     
  29. AmtrakAcela75

    AmtrakAcela75 Member

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    no nobody is making anybody buy anything but like other people said it makes them feel upset that playstation and pc get sales when xbox doesn't, its not about complaining about not having sales many games don't have sales for months and even if so its very little like dovetail launch discount a year later. its also on top of that every one don't always have alot of cash main reason people might choose console over pc since i would say that train sim world 2 would need a pretty high spec pc to run it on the same level as any console does whether that's the original xbox or the newest series console. i myself might have 30$ and can only buy one route while sales like on pc and PlayStation let me buy 3 for that price with sales so my money and value for me is going father. and to me personal rush hour marks off both my wants for a route and the value it gives to me. since i love being able to see the mbta in the game and i get 3 routes for the price of one. but to me unless they do sales im most likely be sticking to the base game pack purchases. and i would say other users would probably agree.
     
  30. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    I can agree to that. If there is a route/loco (as a DLC) that I like and want it on xbox, I will get it no matter the price. Honstly as an Xbox player, I'm fine paying it in full, as there hasn't been that much discounts for DLC/Add-ons on Xbox anyways (unless something special for a sale like publisher weekend or in-game stuff like F2Ps).
    If there's a chance, then I would do it (if I like it). If not, then that's that.
    And while I would agree for more sales to happen from Dovetail for consoles, but unless the system changes from Microsoft/Sony's side on who gets to be on the sale list, it is what it is.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2021
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  31. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    Two things...
    This type of thread will keep being made as long and everytime pc/sony ps4/5 get sales and xbox doesn't.(By someone,theres plenty who will.)
    2.Right now all we can do is complain and let dtg know that xbox players also spend money on there products and don't deserve to be left out like we don't matter.

    And if these threads make you tired keep your sleeping bag handy.
     
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  32. wombleway

    wombleway Well-Known Member

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    DTG haven't said that Xbox users don't matter - they've said that Microsoft don't give them the sales slots. Complaining to DTG repeatedly isn't going to change that.
     
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  33. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

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    If you give discounts all the time anyway, you might as well sell it cheaper from the start and then there will be fewer problems ... :cool::D

    Well, you could also say, why should you actively try to change something, if enough people also buy it at full price?
     
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  34. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    I never said that they said it,just ment that how many of us feel.
     
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  35. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    This reminds me of the 2016 presidential election. Feelings mattered more than facts.

    The evidence is there to say it isn't DTGs fault yet everyone pins it on them.
     
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  36. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    There are very clear facts here PC/PS4/5 are getting all the sales offen,while xbox players are just getting the shaft.
    And dtg and MS clearly can't or won't find some common ground to change this fact.

    The fact is these two need to sit down and hammer out whatever issues is keeping this problem ongoing...It ridiculous that dtg has no say with there own products when it comes to running sales...
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2021
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  37. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Ignoring my point.
    I'm saying it isn't on DTG and people need to quite blaming then when it isn't them.
    They are trying.
     
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  38. wombleway

    wombleway Well-Known Member

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    Just as an aside... I own pretty much every DLC (with the exception of one route and a few locos) on Xbox and haven't paid full price for any of them... If you shop around, you can buy vouchers at a discounted price (£50 monetary value for £45, for example), buy content for TSW2020 at a discount that ports over to TSW2 (10% discount), and by converting Microsoft Rewards points into vouchers (£5 per month simply by pushing a few buttons every day)... I'll be getting Cane Creek when it comes out on Thursday and it'll probably only have cost me a tenner or thereabouts in actual money.
     
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  39. AmtrakAcela75

    AmtrakAcela75 Member

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    i have to say gamepass is a great way to get some free xbox credits if your someone who uses the service alot and try getting all the rewards i generally get 3 bucks or more every month
     
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  40. L89

    L89 Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately not all content gets the 10% discount. West Somerset Railway 10% on PC Game Pass but not Xbox Game Pass. Some loco DLC not with any discount either on Xbox.
     
  41. wombleway

    wombleway Well-Known Member

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    True, but I never said all TSW2020 DLC gets a discount - just pointing out that it's possible to buy stuff cheaper than the published price by utilising various options available to a lot of Xbox users.
     
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  42. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    To be fair WSR is a bit cheaper anyway
     
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  43. Wolfovizer

    Wolfovizer Well-Known Member

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    My opinion is... wow amazing right?
     
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  44. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    Clearly you don’t care about this topic , you I would’ve said something else other than this if you did care . Don’t bother replying to a thread you don’t care about
     
  45. L89

    L89 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah because it's a small route like Isle of Wight. To get the full WSR experience means buying all the locomotives too so it will be quite a lot to buy and catch up on.

    Ruhr Sieg-Nord and Hauptstrecke Rhein-Ruhr also don't get any GP discounts. Those I've picked up on general sales though.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2021
  46. Wolfovizer

    Wolfovizer Well-Known Member

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    I do care that's why I'm posting. Why did you pick this out of all the other posts? Its no different to most posts on this thread.
     
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  47. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    Because it was the latest post on this thread , I read every message on the thread and reply where necessary - in this case I felt it was necessary to reply…
     
  48. bensconnolly

    bensconnolly Member

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    I've read all the arguments and excuses, and I get it. But I'm not buying any more add-ons until a sale comes along, or the add-ons are pro-rate priced to acknowledge the fact no sales happen.
     
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  49. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    With the way this issue being delt with,hell might freeze over frist.
     
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  50. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    I would love to hold out for a sale, but I'm addicted to TSW so I don't bother waiting unless it a DLC I'm not that interested in.

    Currently I have all I want. IOW, TVL and WSR are meh, so those I will wait for.

    And I don't really enjoy freight so if one comes on sale maybe.

    I'm a middle age man who enjoys playing simulators, I don't have much time left to wait for sales that may never appear. Before long my motor skills will break down and won't be able to play games any more.

    Besides I've only basically paid the same I would have spent going to Starbucks 8 times and since we have been stuck at home for a year I can invest in my hobby.

    It sucks there are no sales but in reality it only costs half the price of a new game on Xbox. Are you going to wait for those too when they go on sale?
     
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