Why Is There No Obb 1116 Layer On Vorarlberg?

As per the title, really. From the roadmap questions:

Q: Are any ÖBB 1116 timetable services planned for S-Bahn Vorarlberg?
We don't have any service layers planned for Vorarlberg, but you will find freight being able to substitute in.

Seriously? Vorarlberg is a core route barely six months old and you've already abandoned it? Are we never going to get the missing express passenger services?

Yet another disappointment to be honest, they seem to be piling up at the moment.

 

Oh, FFS!
Do try to understand, older routes do not, and cannot, contain service layers for trains which were developed afterwards. Nor is it a simple matter to add them: in effect, it means throwing out the old timetable and building a new one. This has been done with a few routes, but don't expect it as a matter of course.

 

Sorry but this is patently nonsense. Older routes have had layers added to timetables on several occasions that did not require a new timetable. The only restriction is that players using the PC Editor cannot add layers to an existing, cooked timetable. DTG, with access to the original uncooked timetable, can do what they like with layering.

DTG would have known at the time of making Vorarlberg that Semmeringbahn and the associated 1116 were on the horizon - a bit of forethought would have meant including the IC/EC paths as a matter of course. Very disappointing that this did not happen.

 

Fire and forget. Just pathetic, now every single customer has the final evidence for DTGs hype magnet "we just dont have the proper rolling stock at the moment", was a low excuse for just again going with the bare minimum.

 

As you said DTG would have already known about Semmeringbahn and the 1116 while making Vorarlberg so I don't see any reason why they couldn't have put a layer on there for the future. Just so frustrating how little they care about older content.

 

This isnt true. They could have put in place holder services with one of the other 182s, then swap them out and resimulate once. Its a few hour job waiting for the simulation.

Its very simple to add them, and does not require throwing anything out. I've done it in my own timetables.

 

I thought leaving space in timetables for future content was standard practice now? Like what they did with Boston Sprinter and the Acela or Southeastern with the 700…

 

Important to differentiate between a layer that has been created but not implemented & space in the timetable.

If timetables are made correctly then they should all have the needed space for missing services, if there are any. If the space is there, then a layer would still need to be made to fill that space.

BML for example has the space for other services that aren’t in there, but we don’t have a layer to plug the space.

Ultimately though, it is a shame that VBRG didn’t get a layer made for the 1116. You’d think DTG would be proactive with the Austrian content.

 

Yea I’m honestly a little surprised that layers weren’t proactively built into the timetable already, assuming they knew they were dropping another Austrian route.

I don’t know the behind the scenes though but for us as players it’d be ideal to have these layered in

 

1116 not on Vorarlberg? Woot? Taurus in some shape or form is pretty much on every possible Austrian corridor

 

The Acela was close to release whan Boston Sprinter came out, and was a planned addition. This is true of the 1116 on Salzburg, and was also true of the 313 on ECW although that wound up heavily delayed.

 

they might add it later... I mean, Taurus is pretty much everywhere in Austria... I know that there is 1016, 1116 and 1216, but still... 1116 is I believe most common, since it can also be used for cross-border services

 

There are only a handful of cases of layers going backwards, and they are almost either:
1. Put in the timetable in anticipation of the forthcoming DLC
or
2. Included in a remade timetable (usually as a passion project or in a wider remaster).

It isn't common for a timetable edit solely for a single layer.

 

Someone got the 2024 vorarlberg timetable handy? Could look into making a new one if its not included.

 

This is par the course for DTG routes. When they release new content that would also fit onto older routes they don't add it in right off the bat. Unless they had the foresight to build those services into the route with a placeholder train, you won't see the stuff added back unless they decide to do a pass at a later date. Another example would be Cajon Pass, which should have Metrolink services in San Bernardino but they never added them even after we got the Metrolink rolling stock in Antelope Valley. Maybe they will or maybe they won't, never know. Can only hope and maybe bug them in comments until they do it, lol.

 

Bruh, the taurus Is a staple of ÖBB so hopefully it can be somehow added... since the Talent 1 is a bit lackluster.

 

Maybe DTG should think about their game design if it's such a hard task to use newer stock on existing routes.
A Taurus is a must on every austrian route.

I'm getting mad about all these idiotic choices.

 

Yeah sometimes it feels borderline ridicoulous... surely it would have been possible to use one of the existing Taurus as a placeholder and then substitute it with the correct one.
But from a commercial view it makes sense - with Vorarlberg in it's current state it's just both good enough and plain dead boring to be an incentive for further ÖBB content... so once again, near maximum success with minimum effort.
So it's basically just one more addition on the pile of forgotten routes... and it's most likely a Railjet DLC wouldn't layer in either. Why should it? This has worked fine for years now and will continue to do so because most people buy it anyway.
Unfortunate for Vorarlberg but it is what it is..

 

Well said the last part. Calls for a 80% discount purchais

 

wouldn't be too difficult to find I'd say. I'm working on Salzburg - Rosenheim now but VBG sounds like a fun route with a lot of options too. especially knowing how lackluster the use of industries along the track again.

 

Another reason why DTG should give us the opportunity to use the same tool as they do. Or at least, reconsider clearly whether abandoning PC Editor improvements for the next months was a good decision. In the end, it's the value of the core game and its DLCs we raise with that.

 

https://www.oebb.at/en/regionale-angebote/vorarlberg/s-bahn-vorarlberg

Click on each service and you get its timetable. Luckily, the node web page is also provided in english so you shouldn't have a problem with the language at least there.

 

but there are br182 services from hamburg - lübeck. why are they saying its not possible? i tried playing one of the services but the doors couldn't be used via the loco so its obviously just a placeholder.

 

So that isn't a mod conflict I had. good to know. you can play the service by walking up to the door and opening one though

 

Some of these trains don't have the correct formation because 50466 has a Dosto Sleeper while 40414 ddm autoracks. Oddly the ddm autoracks are hidden in game code

 

Have to agree that it's very disappointing not to see the Taurus come to Vorarlberg, especially considering it was the first-ever Austrian route.

I absolutely love Vorarlberg, it's one of my favourite all-time routes in TSW and currently the only thing that makes it incomplete is the lack of long-distance Austrian services, sadly.

Come on DTG, please reconsider - Austrian content has a chance to be among the best regarding quality and consistency - so don't forget about Vorarlberg!

 

I can only agree. It would have been the perfect time to show that going the extra mile will bring the extra customers! Austria is only emerging in this game at the moment so it would be perfect to not let it fall behind and make an own ecosystem of the Austrian content
Please DTG! And while you are at it, you could then also make the Railjet services ready for usage when this train comes so we don’t have the same problem again

 

anyway, there have been complaints about why does DTG include only 1116 + 2nd class carriages in Semmeringbahn... I can testify such consists exist IRL - 3 days ago I was taking S80 from Wien-Hutteldorf to Wien Hbf, and as the train was stopping at Marzleinsdorfer Platz station, I could see such consist across the platform

 

Yeah these consists exist but are used only to provide more seats in addition to common services during heavy peak times. They are mostly D train services.

 

what exactly are D services? are those like some extra category of express trains? what does the abbreviation then mean

 

There was more than a year gap between NEC:BP and Acela, Class 700 released nearly a year after SEHS Extended. You can have gaps and schedules prepared well ahead of a rolling stock release. So NO, there's no excuse for them not doing it here.

 

I’d wonder if actually making a timetable for a new service is easier when the timetable for a route is made, I figure it must be at least more complex to have to go back and add it in after the fact.

VBRG could very well be Austrias own DRA or SEHS comparative. Nice busy route with varying service diagrams & rolling stock.

The current 182 layer is abit of a mess, so even if for some reason DTG are hesitant to add the 1116, that does need fixing.

 

Durchgangszug. A train you can walk through. because old trains used to have only compartments and no walkway through the coaches. nowadays I think they are just express trains or verstärkerzuge to deal with temporary high demands.

 

This is a really poor decision on DTG's part, Vorarlberg feels incomplete without express trains, to the point that I hardly play what ought to be an excellent route. Layering is such an important part of the game, it's the only way that the 1-train-per-route system can be viable, it enhances routes and gets more value out of our collections. This is such an obvious candidate for layering and it's absolutely shameful that it's not being done.

Also, I really resent that they use free roam as an alternative - it makes me wish the feature hadn't been added. It's an enormous cop out, free roam isn't 1% as good as an actual timetable, and DTG know this full well.

 

Well that was the original meaning, as you say. But by the 1930s (when all trains were walk-through and had been for years), the meaning morphed into something like "through train," one which makes few stops, i.e. an express. DRG and postwar DB used the "D" and "FD" prefixes for express services in the timetable.

 

maybe they are secretly preparing ground for RailJet which has services there (Bludenz - Bregenz and I believe some also stop at Dornbirn and Feldkirch)

 

They did the same with Scenario Planner multiple times - "we're not doing it, but here are tools you can use to do it yourself, except the tools are horrible". They're using these creative tools as an excuse not to do proper work on their end very often.

 

found this nice explanation:
https://rail.cc/train-type/d-zug-oebb/214

 

This feels optimistic under the circumstances, and in any case, there's room for both

 

they might do so eventually, I hope

 

That is not the reason. The Acela services were AI initially so they could be safely swapped for playable Acela services when these arrived, without removing features for the route or requiring a separate TT. Completely different situation. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Let me expand on this a little for everyone's (hopefully) benefit. Layers can be added "safely" as far as I am aware. It will require re-simming the timetable and this may be intractable depending on how complex the timetable is since it will require time to re-sim and then time to beta test the new "instance" of the timetable (that can have completely new bugs... or will have I should say), but at least the problems are "solvable".

Suppose now that you have a formation that was previously AI only but you want to change the formations used and make it playable. This is in essence the same as adding a new layer. You'll need to re-sim and bug test. At least that is my understanding of the situation.

However, if the service was playable already and you want to change the formations you must make a new timetable. Changing out formations that were already playable is unacceptable. I don't know the exact legal issues involved regarding this (if there are any), and I probably wouldn't be allowed to say anything if I did. But it's kind of a no-brainer. If you swap out formations for an already released route, and these formations were playable you are removing features that people paid for.

With Boston-Providence you had placeholder Acela formations that were AI only: no issue with removing features. On Vorarlbergbahn the IC formations are already playable: DTG would be forced to make a new separate timetable for the ÖBB IC formations.

Maybe DTG will make a new TT for the ÖBB IC formations, or maybe they won't. I have no information regarding this, and would obviously not be able to divulge such information even if I did (no winks, no between-the-lines messages here).

The question is then why the IC formations were made playable in the first place. I don't remember (fortunately) so I will speculate instead: probably because it was felt that making them AI only impacted the available gameplay too much (too few playable services, too little diversity in services etc etc).

 

Those AI services, however, were inactive in the released TT (they could be modded to work) until Acela released. So slots and times ready for a future release... sounds to me exactly like a solution for this mess.

 

DTG really should add the 1116. It's a staple of Austrian railroading and their Austrian catalog is still small enough to allow this (only Vorarlberg would require a revisit of the timetable).

 

and Taurus hauls a LOT of stuff, from singledeck IC/CityShuttle coaches to dostos, like this one

 

My main frustration with TSW overall is older routes not getting updated with newer rolling stock - whether E-G, Vorarlberg, or any of the older German routes missing ICE services etc. I appreciate it's a lot of extra work for the devs but I'd like to think it would be worth it in the long-term. There's already so many decent existing TSW routes that just need a vital timetable update - regarding both playable and AI services - and why not add some more new loco DLCs for them as well?

 

It would add value both to the old route and the new DLC, people would be more prone to buynig the expensive content if they knew it layers onto a bunch of old routes as well. Maybe some wouldn't even wait for sale on older routes they didn't have if said routes received a new busy timetable in an update.

 

Sadly, common sense doesn't always land at DTG

 

I get now it cant get added afterwards the easy way. But not thinking ahead 6 months ago for austrias most used loco is a bit questionable to say it kind.

They could have approached it same as the acela dlc

 

They stated a while ago they put in the timetable for future potential stock and basically have it waiting for if the appropriate loco turns up in the future for it to go on.

all I can say is

1. That never happened/that got abandoned

Or

2. It was a feature for one route and like many 1 route features it got dropped/never carried on as a standard for the next etc.

 

As i customer i send back my answer with the wallet.

Bare minimum = 80% sale disount purchais from my side.