Why Lirr In Ts Still Needs To Happen.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by rare_common_sense, Oct 22, 2020.

  1. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    First off, this isn't an actual route request, as I have already written a fairly well thought out one for this route over two years ago: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/long-island-railroad-network.3263/

    This is me once again, advocating why the route, despite it already first making it's way to TSW, should be, and should have been made for TS1.

    Several reasons:

    • LIRR for years by me, as well as a number of others, had been requested even before the idea of TSW was conceived, or at least announced. Plus, it is the only resident of NY Penn Station, that has not seen the light of day in TS1.
    • TSW, although, at best looks prettier, just doesn't do the LIRR justice. Scenario, timetable, or content-wise. period.
    • Apparently, making the same routes for one title to another isn't an issue. As the Clinchfield route only having just released earlier in the year, is already in production for TSW, as well a few others, such as the IOW, Munich-Augsburg, GWE, just to name a few. So I would have to rightfully assume making a TS version.
    • Then, the other issue is, as far as American content, the US player base is being bombarded with mainly freight-oriented content. At least as far as routes go. The last Passenger/Commuter route we've received was the Hudson. Well over a year and a half ago.
    Simply, The need to have LIRR in TS is still very much there. The route and most certainly the equipment that runs throughout its network.

    I know I'm not alone in the idea that TSW isn't as strong with the TS veterans such as myself as it may be with those who lack access to powerful enough hare to play simulation titles PC consumers have been enjoying for the past nearly 20yrs, favoring cosmetics over functionality and true immersion. Something TS is many ways still does better at.

    With the likes of Searchlight Simulations, the very far and few dedicated US content creators, as well the very prominent content creators like Armstrong Powerhouse, Just Trains, and community of route builders in the UK, and maybe elsewhere in Europe. TS is still holding up well. And proves that a little care goes a long way.

    On the US side of things, there needs to be a balance of operational variety, and it is tipped heavily on one side.
     
  2. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Personally I would prefer if DTG spent their time on more interesting routes. I found/find the LIRR to be painfully boring both in TSW and in real life.

    As for the freight vs passenger balance...I trust that DTG does their market research and looks at sales and just finds that freight is in more demand. I don't find that surprising as American railways outside of NY, Chicago, and parts of Cali tend to be overwhelmingly dominated by freight and anecdotally it seems that American rail fans have a lot of interest in freight)
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
  3. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    If the LIRR can come with the New York and Atlantic Railway, then that would satisfy both freight and passenger operations.
    8bf8866072d081bf1b2b8a9194a735cd.jpg
     
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  4. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    It would be great to have the LIRR in TS20xx. Since a small portion of trackage exists for it between NY-Penn Station and Woodside in the New York-New Haven Route and the Hudson Line, I would really like to see the LIRR be developed. There is alot of potential as it is one of the most busiest passenger railroads in the US. I also agree, that having NY&A featured would also provide for freight opportunities along the non revenue lower Montauk branch and Bay Ridge Branch, as well as the lines that currently see revenue service. It would be great to see the M3, M7, M9, C3, and DE/DM30AC locomotives. If we can get one or two lines initially released, this would offer may opportunities later down the line as far as route expeansions and updates go.
     
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  5. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    Personally with how many routes go in and around New York as is I'd rather see them stay away from there for a good while. I'd rather see more concentration on older routes, I feel like it's the most lacking thing on the NA side of things with how many fallen flags and the like you could build routes off of. Having things like the MILW electrics, N&W steam, or even some Toronto streetcars would be better ways expand upon TS in my book.
     
  6. samsonbo

    samsonbo Member

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    As above, there's more than enough NY/NJ routes. Theres MANY more ignored areas/countries that should be addressed first and finally LIRR is in TSW .....There's NO NEED for LIRR in TS 2020
     
  7. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    I agree, there are a decent chunk of NY/NJ routes. Even though the LIRR exists in TSW, it does not really represent how busy it is in real life and I think the line should have been created well east of Hicksville. It does not seem like the LIRR in TSW will get any further improvements or add ons.
     
  8. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    Honestly. They've stayed away from it long enough. I won't argue that other routes, particularly passenger-oriented, would also be very welcomed but who knows if DTG or any other 3rd party has licensing to do them.

    I stress this because it's obvious they still have licencing with NYMTA.

    Just as there are more than enough freight routes. On the account of there supposedly being no need for LIRR in TS1... 150% in disagreement! We just got Clinchfield earlier this year, and they're already in production of a TSW based version, Would you say there's "NO NEED" for it to be in TSW as well?

    You ought to realize that not everyone favors TSW nor has been sold on it because of the lack of features that were promised for it and never came to fruition. There are still many of us who are faithful to the TS1 product, and still feel there is definitely a place for it TS. TSW isn't necessarily on the level of replayability as TS1 is, and without those features that more than likely won't ever make it in, due to it also being a console game.

    mattdsoares I can respect that you are one of few who find it personally boring. But there are those who do not. And aren't sold much on the version TSW offered. I can agree, like others that other routes should be focused on, however, I'm not as familiar with the others as they are, hence why I've heavily advocated for this route to be done in TS, for years now. This post while left up to discussion, is obviously not for those who are against the idea of it coming to TS, which would have served it better.

    I feel once they've given LIRR its place in TS, they could not work on another New York Based route for a few years, or even longer, as we will undoubtedly have people more than happy to work off of what DTG would more than likely leave out.

    I feel that LIRR being made for TSW, was more of an attempt to convert people (mainly TS1 vets) over. But obviously, fell short, with the amount of services in conjunction with the lack of editing features for the game. TSW just isn't really cutting it, at least not where it matters.
     
  9. mrchuck

    mrchuck Well-Known Member

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    I hope the DE/DM30AC is gonna be out sometime soon in TSW 2 in the future.
     
  10. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    Right, The LIRR route in TSW is decent but I believe it has the potential to be improved on. Another example of 2 routes that occur in both TS and TSW is the Peninsula Corridor route and the NEC.
     
  11. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    And Munich-Augsburg, and West Somerset, and Isle of Wight, and the currently in production Clinchfield, Arosa Line, London-Faversham, and Marasille-Avignon. Good routes are good routes and will show up in TSW as well. It's especially helpful when you already have the research and licensing you need!
     
  12. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    I would say it's also obvious that they have licensing for many fallen flags, the big four US railroads all have some sort of fallen flag content. BNSF, UP, & CSX all have routes based off of fallen flags they own, there's also N&W SD45's and the NS heritage schemes so they clearly have clearance with NS as well. It also seems they have some sort of agreement with CP as there's a MILW livery with the old GP9 pack, only CN seems to have any known legal issues when it comes to fallen flags, rest seem to be in the clear.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
  13. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    The only other brand I think that had issues was New Jersey Transit, but it was them not wanting DTM to release the U34CH with the older NJT colors, instead only use the current branding.
     
  14. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    Even routes like Marias Pass & the Settle-Carlisle line are examples of this, they're basically modern (Well, for the time) versions of MSTS routes. When you make a new game many routes from the old are gonna make it in, because the lines that are made tend to be rather iconic. I think the strongest case for LIRR being possible is the LNER HST as it's the TSW version backported over, which is way more in line with the request.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
  15. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps 3rd party developers can enhance the U34CH with the older NJT livery.
     
  16. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    In this case, it appears the routes from TS that make it in TSW are shortened. A good example would be the Peninsula Corridor. In TS20xx, it goes from San Francisco to Gilroy but in TSW, it goes form San Francisco to San Jose Diridon.
     
  17. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    It was certainly done with the M7 for the Hudson, with a child object added on top. That was confirmed to me by Matt.
     
  18. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    That's actually one of the worst examples to bring up, yes there's a Gilroy version, but keep in mind that it's a extended version of the OG route. The first version was also from San Fran to San Jose, the only major difference being that it included the MP36 instead of the F40PH, otherwise very similar amount of content between the two.
    I did not know the M7 in Hudson was the TSW version, interesting to know!
     
  19. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    There is a difference, Metro North uses the M7A and the LIRR uses the M7. There are a few physical differences as well. The sounds that are featured on the M7A in TS20xx are recycled from the sounds featured in the LIRR M7 for TSW
     
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  20. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    True, the content is fairly similar but I would not say that it is unfair to mention the Gilroy extension from San Jose Diridon because the length of routes in TSW are generally shorter than their TSW counterpart. I am not exactly sure why it was not just created as one full route in TS20xx.
     
  21. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    Sure it's a reasonable enough comparison, but it's not as strong a case as routes like Isle of Wight, Great Western Main Line, or NEC New Haven. Those all have more content than their TSW counterparts. Peninsulas Corridor in comparison is much more favorable to TSW than any of those.
     
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  22. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    A better example I think would be the Clinchfiled Railroad, as the TS2021 version goes from Elkhorn City to St. Paul, while the TSW version will only go from Elkhorn to Dante, which will cut only about 6-7 miles from the route.
     
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  23. rare_common_sense

    rare_common_sense Well-Known Member

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    This is why I just can't with TSW LOL. In favor of looking prettier, you get less. I'll take quantity over looks any day.
     

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