Will Train Sim World Ever Expand?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by dreampage, Nov 30, 2021.

  1. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Just look at the Glasgow North Clyde suburban route... Total of six career scenarios of which one is a DMU ECS Test Train move, a DMU on the Anniesland leaving 4 x electric services. This on a busy suburban line with several branches and complex timetable structure!
     
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  2. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The physics, for a start. TS uses arcade physics.
     
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  3. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    A waste of a huge network with great potential if it could be used with a timetable mode. Maybe someone will mod such a thing one day into TS.
     
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  4. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    If you're going to consider the BR101 an incomplete product, where does it end? SEHS should have come with a Class 377/5, the Sheerness Branch and the Medway Valley Line. Cathcart should have had more than just the 314. East Coastway should have gone all the way to Ashford International. London to Brighton should have had London Bridge. West Cornwall Local should have had a Valenta HST. What we got with the BR101 was a very good product, and as much as I'd like one, I don't believe the lack of a cab car makes it an inherently bad product.
     
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  5. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah I didn't mean just do the fixes and updates. But they have to start updating the older stuff as a priority and not an after thought. I said before if only DTG could realise if they did actually fix stuff in the long run imo they would be able to release more DLC to keep their bean counters happy.
     
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  6. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Im stll waiting for a fix to the m7 audio for lirr and that's been an issue for more than a year. Unacceptable
     
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  7. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    You see, when you use the name of an existing place or object then claim to replicate it and even more so sell it for profit, not only do people expect but it is an obligation to deliver what you said you are to deliver. Otherwise, you are liable for misleading customers.
    Maybe with numbers it's more simple. If I claim to produce 2 meter straight pipes I can't deliver them shorter and slightly bent, can I?
    In the world of model trains, if you replicate a place it's called a layout otherwise it's a diorama.

    Fair point.

    We have:
    - physics
    - timetables
    - graphics
    - possibility to walk a bit around an inside trains
    - livery and scenario planner (never used, probably never will)

    At what cost do improvements come in TSW? Routes tend to come with less track (Sherman Hill to name the latest) or with fewer trains (BR 189), many years into it's life cycle it still lacks steam engines, a decent skybox, correct PIS, and announcements etc.
    I don't know enough about coding as I wish but computers should essentially do what we program them to do. It's not like the evolution of a computer game is similar to that of the human species. We lost the ability to climb trees to become 2 legged mammals. We can't change our genetic code but we can change the genetic of a computer game or software particularly as it's still young.

    Sometimes you hear them say that they cut corners on the assets part because they are building a train game, not one related to architecture. Yet, when you see how much attention they put into train development it makes you wonder if they actually know what they are doing.
     
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  8. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Truly is. All routes have bugs and issues, but LIRR is pretty much unenjoyable. Issues with sounds, issues with controls, issues with the ATC and the timetable. The only reason I still have hope that one day it will be fixes is because Matt has mentioned he already has a new timetable for it, but it would need a reworked ATC for it to work. So hopefully at some point they get to it and make LIRR actually good. Until then, it doesn't get much playtime from me, which is a shame, because it would be one of my favorite routes.

    But talking about LIRR, yet going back to the topic of "expanding", I would really like to see new EMU commuter routes from other countries. Obviously I would be the happiest with a japanese commuter route, but I would be interested in anything else as well. When Cathcart Circle released, I was quite interested at first, but sadly it didn't take long, as UK type stuff are just not my thing. But I think regardless of country, I could really get into a route if it featured some older style passenger EMUs (not the modern german ones we already have).

    For example, I don't see Hungary ever coming to TSW, but I really like MÁV's BDVmot series.
    [​IMG]

    Or we already have one French route, but it's a TGV. What about some local, "normal train" French route?
    Though this one seems to be pretty old, probably not running anymore, but you get my point.
    [​IMG]

    Or I see a lot of requiests for Denmark here in the forums. Doesn't Denmark has these really funny things?
    [​IMG]

    Tunisian (and generally African) trains have also always interested me, though Africa is probably also quite out of reach for DTG.
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Active Member

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    True, but bug fixing increase company reputation, and in final increase sales. When, as a new player, i look at poor reviews of steam DLCs for TSW or TS i am not inclined to buy base product.
    Some very niche games are able to delivery cheap content, almost bug free, with only one big DLC each year... And have very positive opinion and base players far wider now than TSW or TS have. (ETS2 and ATS..)
    Now i understand buissness is buissness..
     
  10. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I agree. But what I said was based off what matt said in the Executive Producer QA stream
     
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  11. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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    Not much of an argument when TSW has things like the 313...
     
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  12. BlaringHorn

    BlaringHorn Active Member

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    I'm sure it's already been mentioned, but Dovetail never broke the "mold" with Train Simulator either from what I can see. It would be great to see more 3rd party developers if it's the "only way" to get more "exotic" locales. I do wonder if Rivet's and Skyhook's problems have scared others away though?

    I do feel that more historic content would alleviate the problem though instead of setting everything in present day which means seeing the same locos over and over again. And so far, only UK has a meaningful amount of historic content, US only Clinchfield and Germany flat zero.
     
  13. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Only some Austrian routes and a very few French routes, as far as I rembember.

    I doubt it. Considering Rivet keep making TSW content it means they must make a profit for them. I think most 3rd parties hit a brick wall when they want to do something for TSW. With the tools not available to public and plenty of reports that DTG doesn't always reply to emails and such, it probably is a pretty costly investment to get started.

    Adding historic content certainly would help with variety to some extent, but it's not like the signalling systems, architecture and landscape within these countries changed a whole lot. At least we have steam locomotives coming up, that's an interesting development, but not a good excuse not to venture into new countries.

    Looking at my collection of Train Simulator routes, the few routes I own in South Africa, Japan and China really offered a different experience, especially due to the landscape and architecture. While driving a steam train through historic UK doesn't really feel that different from driving a heritage steamer through modern-day UK...
     
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  14. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Routes like Cane Creek or the Japanese Forest Rail offered something completely different and escapist. Part of the problem with routes like BML or the earlier GWE is that for many users it's a bus man's holiday, so to speak. Just replicates what is pretty mundane in real life. That's why I haven't bothered much with the new FS either, flying modern FMC controlled tube liners as opposed to a DC10 or 727 holds little appeal.
     
  15. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Man, the South African routes were so lovely in TS. Sure the quality of them were really weak, but they were so unique. Cape gauge, wide open plains, old loud rolling stock. Wish TSW had stuff like that.
     
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  16. 2martens

    2martens Active Member

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    I like those very much. Much more than old, heritage routes. The thrill to keep a tight schedule, with the pressure to make the riding to the passengers as mundane as possible. Especially in winter and with snow this is quite difficult in times.
     
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  17. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Good choices to make it easy to introduce a new country that would be Austria the ÖBB due to the same 1.95m pantographs 15kv 16.7hz Sifa PZB LZB systems as the German routes like München Augsburg. Introduce Austrian trains into the game it's going to change Main Spessart Bahn Aschaffenburg-Gemünden and Hauptstrecke München-Augsburg due to ÖBB Nightjet services running on those. On Hauptstrecke München-Augsburg you have ÖBB Eurocity Frankfurt Am Main to Klagenfurt & ÖBB Railjet Frankfurt Am Main to Budapest via Westbahn Salzburg Wien Hbf. On Hauptstrecke München-Augsburg ÖBB services is 15 minutes faster than a Riesa-Dresden DB BR146.2 those used LZB tracks. Case in point the Railjet 63 Frankfurt Am Main Hbf Budapest it's the 08:40 Augsburg Hbf 09:10 München Hbf trip beats the RB86/87 trip 08:40 09:25 DB BR146.2 09:35 if DB BR143 was used
     
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  18. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    We have Chris Longhurst who created a number of station assets and a good amount of rolling stock. I do not have inside information but my impression is that his relatioship with DTG is not really brilliant. You can watch a long interview he had with Jasper from Rivet. and he explains well why he has so much success. Otherwise, DTG left it alone and a fair number of hobby developers jumped in. So for TS there is a strong infrastructure with specialized teams in scenery, track side stuff (signals, level crossings, signs and so on) and a number of individual route builders.

    The result is a set of over ten excellent Dutch routes for TS, but they have a disadvantage, you need to collect the assets from a huge number of websites and over time some are no longer available.I think this situation prevents professional developers from jumping in. That is why I think there should be a good market for Dutch routes and Dutch railways are interesting in many ways. If you want Rush Hour, go to the Netherlands.

    I do not have time to pick it up, but I think we can come up with alternative business models to fund a Dutch route. Maybe do some crowd funding, work with volunteers as developers. It may be interesting. to try.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2021
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  19. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    That is interesting what you said about TS Dutch routes in that you have to amass many assets all over the place. IMO this puts a lot of people off in getting mods. Apparently over at the Nexus website for mods they get the same problem for games like Fallout 4, and even though they have got some stick they are trying to find a solution by making all releases that tie in to a specific DLC must be available as a pack and cannot be withdrawn. Some modders are unhappy but when you have gamers putting together mods for Fallout 4 sometimes in there hundreds only to find one has been dropped for no apparent reason is extremely frustrating.

    They should do this for TS. So long as people are happy with their initial release it should be available as a 'pack' for that route no?
     
  20. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    This is why I largely stopped grabbing freeware for TS and stuck with the Steam distributed DLC. Same for putting my own routes together in the editor - and even that can be stymied by DTG's occasional decision to retire (like the original Project Platform) or restrict (BNSF) content which stops new players getting the assets.
     
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  21. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I'm a big fan of mods both free and paid if they are good enough but the gamers should be considered also, if an asset is released as part of a DLC then it should be available for that DLC and not have the threat hanging over that DLC that the asset in question could be pulled at any time, well imo anyway.
     
  22. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    This isnt just an issue with Dutch routes in TS but an issue throughout the Train Simulator community, one which I hope doesnt get repeated on TSW
     
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  23. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    There was always a grind to free content where the player has to go and collect all the assets required to be able to play the route. I haven't done this for TS but I used to do it for OMSI 2 and after a while, once sites were taken offline and assets were no longer available I simply stopped searching for free content.

    I suppose the map creator can put them in a zip file and provide an all-in-one pack for players but some assets they need for their map are developed by other parties and they need consent to distribute publicly under their name. Some give these rights for free, others prohibit distribution. That's why free content is a grind and will always remain like this.

    Hence my comment about the community manager in a previous post. With a bit of effort, all this can be taken under one umbrella and all parties involved can benefit from it. Happy ending.
     
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  24. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    Tight schedules existed before the modern day railway which TSW represents, I digress from the topic here but in some cases journeys are slower than in BR days and back then drivers were not patted on the back for giving passengers a lively ride either.

    The question of will it expand remains which I doubt it will past what we see now in terms of route size and included rolling stock and/or re used vehicles for DLC in the future.
     
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  25. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I think by "heritage railway" what he meant were not vintage routes (e.g. NTP), but living museums like West Somerset, where old trains are chugged around at low speed for the tourists).
    Horses for courses. 2M finds it a thrill, I find it an aggravating PITA. Personally I can't stand driving commuter rail, much favoring freight and (to a lesser extent) nonstop express passenger.
     
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  26. denis

    denis Member

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    Only imagine Trans–Siberian Railway (TSR) in TSW2 !!!

    8 k km!
     
  27. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    The realistic they can do is something like 141 km Ussyurisk Vladivostok the double decker trains need a different locomotive like a Yermak because EP1 VL65 lack the power to supply the double decker coaches
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2021
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  28. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Would doing so much ice and snow be easier on the graphics or harder? Just curious.
     
  29. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Well, snow means less grass, so snow is probably more performance firendly than a landscape full of grass and other foilage.
     
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  30. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    To be honest I doubt that a snowy landscape has been inserted in place of a non-snowy one, more likely it's an overlay, so the grass is still there, and likely still rendered, so the cost would be a bit higher if that's the case
     
  31. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Combine that with Punktförmige zugbeeinflussung end result is Darmstadt or Bochum Dahlhausen Railway museums with them affecting Main Spessart Bahn HRR Ruhr Sieg Nord and Rhein-Ruhr Osten with Railtours. Also affect ÖBB routes like Salzburg Wien Hbf Westbahn for freight on the Westbahn it's Verschiebebahnhof Salzburg Gignl to Wien Kledering.
     

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