PC Will We Ever Get The Promised Fixes?

And don't you think EA has a horrible reputation exactly because of this? Which EA can somewhat afford due to their AAA giant status. But slowly they are losing ground, as less and less people care about their games.

DTG is a smaller company compared to EA, serving a niche hobby of train lovers. Do you think they can afford alienating their already small fanbase? I would seriously consider changing my business strategy if I were them.

 

Then you might as well stop buying any software, because it's all bugged or nicking your data
I have never seen any software that is perfect, or even fixed after a lifetime of five or six years and not introducing new bugs.

 

I’m not being ripped off, nor would I be celebrating it if I was. I am offering an alternative route for people to go down. My next best advice would be to ditch TSW completely and go and find something else to do. Uninstall it and forget DTG even exist. This is also great advice but it means giving up on what is one of your hobbies.

The choice in the middle isn’t working out very well is it. It doesn’t matter how much people write in this thread or others, the fixes have not been released and nothing anyone says will make them release any sooner. That has been made clear by DTG. When they do release they will not fix everything. TSW3 will still be better and you do definitely need TSW3 to get the latest content. It is a viable alternative just like forgetting about TSW is and the only one that means you can carry on doing what you love. At the moment you are not enjoying the game. That’s all I’m saying. If DTG won’t sort out your problem, sort it out yourself.

 

I do understand where people are coming from, after being promised fixes but having no ETA as to when these will be delivered. If I still played TSW 2, I’d be a bit annoyed too.

However, even if/when the fixes will be delivered, the game will still technically be inferior to TSW 3. I know people aren’t going to like this but I think those of you who are sticking with TSW 2, you’re hanging onto a sinking ship.

TSW 2 has NO future. The game is pretty much discontinued and unsupported in my eyes. A bit like Windows 8/8.1. I expect the majority of people who previously used this OS are now running Windows 10 or 11.

New DLCs are for TSW 3 only.

 

Yes mate... The digital flight control systems on modern fly-by-wire passenger jetliners are all so bugged and that is why we have dozens of plane crashes every week with tens of thousands of fatalities. Maybe you can suggest ways to help fix these pesky problems.

Did you work for Boeing on the 737MAX project?

Nope. I am happy to keep TSW2 on a next gen console (Ps5) and compromise with having two installs of the software (both Ps4 and Ps5 core and routes) as performance issues on the Ps5 are unacceptable on some routes (SoS and BML). As for TSW3... LOL. No way will I waste my money on that piece of £%&!

I am enjoying TSW2 as the Ps5 has a high enough spec to deliver good performance on the Ps5 version of most routes. For SoS and BML I have the Ps4 version on the Ps5 and that runs well. Upgrading to the awful TSW3 will include all the ridiculous gimmicks (snow flurries, pantograph and pickup sparks, changing weather, opening brollies) that introduce extra processing needs and that WILL be at the cost of performance. I am not willing to tolerate that.

I have sorted the problem out. My TSW2 collection is about as full as it will ever get and I will not be a DTG customer from here on. That leaves me with extra money to spend on other games which is great. As for DTG... As others have mentioned, they are probably not big enough to risk permanently alienating a chunk of their customer base but they have made their choices and will live (or perish) by it.

 

I'm sure that even fbw systems have their "quirks and eccentricities"...
Maybe not "fly the plane into the ground" like the max, but still

 

"Quirks and eccentricities" are ironed out with meticulous and exhaustive testing and even then the systems have triple redundancy built in.

DTG testing seems almost non existent with every release having numerous serious problems reported en masse on day one. You could be forgiven for suspecting that DTG are trying to drive into the terminus buffers at full speed. Would it be too dark humour to suggest the next route be set in the 1970s London and feature the Northern City line going into Moorgate?

 

The difference is that every new season of FIFA brings new player lineups; it's a genre that begs annual releases.

 

The digital flight control systems on modern fly-by-wire passenger jetliners take years and millions to develop.

 

And I am making the decision to not reward DTG for making their customers buy a new product that is in most ways functionally identical to the earliier one.

 

OK, let me put this another way...
Microsoft Exchange has had bugs in it since the first version. At one point you couldn't change the DNS pointers in it for fear of killing the entire email domain forest.
Windows has some of the same bugs it had before it got windows (ie when it was DOS). Even now if you want a file structure with more than 256 letters in the entire directory and filename structure you have to use a workaround

And yes, even flight control systems which have been around for ages are still having "problems", so even if those things are being "ironed out" they're getting out into the ecosystem in the first place.
In DTG terms this means people can't complete a service, have visual glitches etc. In those other terms it can mean millions in lost time and effort or planes "having incidents"

So DTG should fix their issues, and really these things should never get out of the door, but if Microsoft and Boeing, both with billion dollar a year budgets release buggy software and don't fix things for decades, what chance have DTG got?

 

"Buy"?
With just about any of the bundles, TSW3 is basically free. The current "Deluxe Bundle" is $60 US pricing for four routes: that's a bargain $15 per route with the game tossed in for nothing.

 

No software, product or service is perfect. But there are those that make you feel regret after buying them, and there are those that make you not. Sadly, many of the TSW add-ons fall into the former category. In comparison, there are many others game I play in which interestingly don't have to encounter ridiculous bugs and visual glitches every 5 minutes. They just work. They simply run well and look good! They don't make me feel "damn, this could be so much better" on a daily basis.

Now I don't like thinking in extremes, so I am not planning on completely stopping with TSW and "forgetting DTG ever exsisted", as I still enjoy TSW and TSC quite a lot. But I am done buying their products based on hopes and promises, I am being much more careful with what I purchase.

And no matter how you try to defend it, there really is no excuse for announcing fixes for your game, then re-releasing the game under a new name and releasing the fixes only for the new version. This is just scummy anti-consumer sales tactic, similarly to the whole TGV add-on situation for TGV. Release broken stuff, makes promises to fix it, then don't bother actually fixing it and just swipe it under the rug, either by withdrawing it from the store or re-releasing a new version.

 

At what time have I defended DTG not releasing fixes to TSW2? My advice is what you can do to improve your life instead of waiting for something that is taking far too long. It’s just an idea. I haven’t defended DTG for not fixing the game at all.

 

And if I don't want those routes?

 

You are right... five or six years... thats a little bit different then every 2 years buying the same product over and over again with the same bugs never fixed. And right now for example TSW 2 is working much better with unofficial editor then TSW 3 because of those shaders changes which DTG made to prevent porting TSW 3 routes into the TSW 2. Why did they release TSW 3 in the first place if its the same engine version ? If they just release free core patch then everybody will be on TSW 3 without any problems and we will not have to keep our steam library with 5 versions of the same game. Can you imagine have Rail Simulator, Railworks, Railworks 2, Railworks 3, Train Simulator 2013 etc... till now every year like a separate product ? This is just going wild, sorry ... but they cant keep up fixing one product but they released another 2 with the same bugs and BS that they are not forcing you to buy new version and they will keep updating (not new releases but at least bug fixes). Even now i see many of games which are still getting bug fix and they are couple of years old. So what, next year they will release TSW 4, they will tell you that they are starting from scratch (but it will be still named TS2Prototype), new UE5 version and non of the DLCs which you own are not compatible... you just need to start over again... will you like that ? I guess with your logic you will be absolutely happy about that decision... doesnt matter that you spend for example $2000 on all DLCs.

What i think is that DTG dont even made those bug fixes, they are just full of lie and they are using that "we are waiting for empty slot" for just an excuse. That just a separate game, should have own slots and i dont see steam busy to updating my TSW 2 every week. Dont tell me that they dont have even one free slot after TSW 3 release. Seen that many times before ... let go to the past ... Multiplayer is not going to be part of the beta but are team is really working on it... Days before final version... multiplayer will be released with the first DLC, we are really working on it and we have it almost done, we would like to make MP like a main core feature... first DLC arrived and they stopped talking about MP, and then when somebody asked on forum they got the same answer over and over like with the editor... we are still working on it... and i think they dont even start with that MP.
Lets go to the TSW 2 release ... its not including MP but we would like to add it one day. But we have added Livery and Scenario editor which we will keep developing to the better tools. In the middle of that year... next year its going to be year v2 of our ingame tools... our team is really working on some stuff there.... RushHour release ... no tools v2 - why they will even bother to say what happened... they just completely remove that v2 from roadmap and then they stopped talking about it... TSW 3 release ... there will be no multiplayer for the TSW 3, we give up because we just dont know how to do it... but wait for next year... cant wait for Relay mode like in Train Simulator 2013 which suppose include multiplayer too, they even show it in one of their dev video how they are playing it. In the end they just remove it and introduce as that lame Relay mode which nobody was really playing but they were so excited about that... For me it looks like they keep adding features nobody asked for and those which is a lot of players asking for they just ignore them.

 

I would suggest that TSW2 is even more obsolete than TSW2020, which still has a couple of items and a route you can't play without TSW2020 installed.

DTG though are absolutely in the wrong to keep promising something and never delivering it for the flimsiest of reasons "waiting for a suitable release build". If it had any priority whatsoever it would have been factored in by whoever makes the release builds, it is clearly at the back of the queue and items are constantly being put in the queue ahead of it.

The quicker they release it the quicker they can officially sunset TSW2 and move on, but while it is outstanding it is a bit of a millstone around their necks.

 

The thing is that I wouldn't play TSW3 even if it was given out freely. I have tried it on GamePass and uninstalled it. It just runs terribly and isn't worth moving over from TSW2. And the new soulless menu system is something else to navigate (light grey highlight on a white background. I'll have a brain aneurysm trying to figure out who would come up with something so weird).

 

I fully agree. TSW2 is a sinking ship, but one that performs far better than TSW3. I honestly would have had zero problems "upgrading" to the latest version and buying new routes if it ran well. It just doesn't and makes me nauseous when playing it. For me it's not even tolerating the stutters and just play it as is. I don't really think it's a good experience to play a game that makes you physically ill. So in the meantime, my only choice in this hobby is TSW2.

 

Maybe they thought by this point TSW2 would only be attracting a handful of daily users while in fact it is still 25% of the TSW3 daily user count on Steam. Hence why these discussions continue to attract more dialog rather than less. I agree with you that the sooner they would have got these fixes out, the sooner they could have dropped all us TSW2 users in the ditch to focus on their new toy. Just seems like a colossally disorganized company. They just released Catan to a lovely 2 star rating. Everything they touch these days seems to be a mess.

 

LOL, I wonder what the Sicilian Mafia thinks of DTG's need to virtue signal?

Are you taking the mick? Perhaps you should have a word with DTG and say they should practice what they preach.

I hear what your saying but there are problems with TSW3 as well. TSW is an expensive hobby and with DTG's constant promises the customers get little return. Someone posted above saying 'why not release TSW3' as free update. Seems so simple, Why not DTG? Give something back to your dwindling community eh? People don't want to buy the routes just the core update and maybe later they will invest in the routes if they like it and then it gives DTG a way out of not updating TSW2 (which I still think as cowardly but this could be a compromise for them) Before you know it we will soon be hearing of much bigger problems when TSW4 drops and older routes will not be compatible so DTG will make you buy them again.

I'm still waiting for the fixes to the Raildriver as promised by Matt and co and was assured of how easy it was to do. They can't keep doing this as eventually people will get wise to it and vote with their wallets.

 

Still waiting for the major update and counting...
Passengers Feature big updated still bugged after months huhu

 

They can keep promising updates and fixes that don’t come. We’ve seen it before. We’ll see it again. But you can only take your customers for fools so many times, before they get wise to what you’re doing. I think this thread indicates that this moment is coming

I’m serious when I say this. If I worked at DTG I’d be making sure my CV is up to date

 

See, this is where any argument you make falls down
There's more than enough to be going on with, with the bugs and issues that the TSW systems have without implying that someone has an emotional reaction they just haven't shown
We could talk all day about bugs, how they affect ecosystems, why DTG are really really bad at managing them and how users are likely to get narked about it, but there's no need to bottom feed and start slanging anything like emotions into the mix.

 

Personally I don't know why DTG don't just release the fixes and put the whole episode to bed, it would create a lot more harmony, although I am sure some would still find things to moan about.

Personally I bought TSW3 for the Cross City line and I don't regret it. I don't feel ripped off as I am having a lot of fun and enjoyment with TSW3, it seems some aren't though, although I am sure there are a silent majority who are.

I can see where TSW2 owners are coming from but personally I can see a lot of plus points to upgrading to TSW3.

 

I'm fairly sure even the ones who are on hear "airing their grievances" are actually getting something from their experience even if they (like us) wish that experience were better, or at least closer to what happens in real life.

 

Well yes I could come up with a list of things which irk me and irritate me and a couple of really irritating/annoying issues. But I can only go on my overall experience which is largely positive.

 

If there's a TSW3 route you want, with exception of Edinburgh & Bremen there's a starter set giving you the base game for free

If there isn't a TSW3 DLC you want then you've probably had enough of Train Sim World regardless of it was released on TSW2 or 3 because there's now a route to suit virtually every taste.

If you're refusing to pay a route you'd had brought if it was TSW2 but aren't on principal then you're cutting your nose off to spite your face.

 

The base game should always be of the best value. Buying a starter pack is by far the LEAST amount of value you can get from purchasing ANY Train Sim World game since CSX Heavy Haul was the only thing available. I don't recommend it, they shouldn't have done it, and if you buy it on certain platforms you lock yourself out of ever purchasing a "better" bundle.

The base bundles are really useful for new players because they give them a little taste of the content, so if they enjoy it they can have a better idea of which content appeals to them.

 

What if one does not want any TSW3 routes, but would just like to enjoy their already exsisting TSW2 content with the promised fixes? Because your point seems to completely miss the main topic of the thread, which is the fixes that were originally promised for TSW2, way before TSW3 was even announced.

 

I'm still waiting for the DOSTOs that come with the DB182 pack to be fixed.

 

DTG could go busy tomorrow, they could have stopped supporting TSW2 entirely and gone back to TSC only.

None of us are owed anything from anyone, with TSW2 we've got what we paid for in the state it was released. Any improvements made after purchase are a bonus.

 

So expecting the digital content one has paid for to work as advertised is not a bonus, apparently... You are aware that TSW (all versions) is full of game braking bugs and incompletable scenarios, right?

 

Yes but when only 20% ish of a product is useable (on Xbox One on certain platforms it is annoying that it looks like it will never be resolved. It's the reason why I haven't and probably won't buy TSW3 as I tried it on gamepass and it wasn' t great. The crashes and bugs aren't advertised with the product so why should we accept them. When I buy a new DLC I at minimum want all of it to work as it should.

 

I'll pull some hard cold stats out tomorrow but roughly out of around a 1000 services/scenarios I've ran in TSW3 the number of incompletables number less than 20. Whilst no one gets more frustrated then me when I waste time on a broken services, overall the issue is no where near as bad as we make out

 

And as I have pointed out.........repeatedly, some of us are old enough now to not have much future either and so, we have no interest in updating to a new version that doesn't offer much more than a few shiny things and more of the same repetitious bugs and fixes ad nauseam. Add to that, we were told things would be fixed, and then try to understand that we have been lied to. We are happy with the old version as it is, even broken, we can still play many of our routes and timetables, just not the ones broken. Having been promised something that wasn't delivered by this company, why on earth would we then give them more money for something similar?

 

Fair enough. It does show you see the thread, yet we still await firm news of what we were promised. So, at the risk of being blacklisted, might I suggest our fixes could be delivered in the same haste?

 

What if you guys got a definitive “no”?
What are your next steps?

 

The rebels of the of this forum would probably start full on gorilla warfare, hoping to bully the company and ware it down into submission, oh wait, that's happening now and rebels are headbutting brick walls and complaining they got headaches........

 

Write a letter to King Chuck to ask for a royal decree to have DTG fix their game. Otherwise wait for TSW4 and reevaluate.

 

Well at that point there would be no next steps. I'd give DTG my one-finger salute as I exited this forum.

 

Yup! [removed - JD - political]

 

Funny you should ask that. Have you seen the number of bugs and fixes for anything that has been released lately? Well, that simply gives me the opportunity to continue respectfully point out to current and potential customers the level of shoddy treatment they too can expect at the hands of DTG. Until such times I was banned from the system, which is possibly just around the corner. Fair enough for you?

 

I wouldn't have called it debate as such either, more like lighthearted banter for mine.

 

[removed - JD - political]

I'm sure this thread will now be locked so people can get back to important things like providing DTG suggestions and creation club submissions and QA work, that's so much more important than any concern some old worthless TSW2 customers have.

 

Does that involve throwing assault grade bananas at them?

 

I would remind anyone thinking about purchasing TSW3 on other forums that DTG have shown their dishonesty.

 

Hey DTG workers, best take the advice of this random guy off the internet, he def knows what he is talking about. I am sure his interaction with a video game has given him deep insight into the state of DTG's business.

Stop it with the victimhood thing. You're not going to get banned for complaining, this forum wouldn't exist if anyone was banned for complaining. If you're that concerned about the thread getting shut down, tell the people who have been warned it will get shut down if they keep talking about politics, to stop talking about politics.

The only people ever banned from this forum were people who went out of their way to provoke arguments over nothing, behaved in a completely disrespectful way, and consistently derailed every thread they entered (and even then, it's two people at most in two and a half years as far as I can remember). Nobody ever got banned for saying "DTG are awful liars" or anything like it.

Nothing you are saying in this thread is original or new, you're not trailblazing anything. We had 18 months of the same thing with the PS5 add-on manager, lack of priority, DTG's fault for not doing stuff, slow, lazy, they're not actually going to do anything about it, it's all lies, then one day it arrived and aaalllllll the people who had been saying that stuff went quiet. It was the same with the broken achievement in TSW2020, a thread for over a year after TSW2 came out, then a fix was found and released and... Silence.

DTG have literally replied to this thread explaining it's still coming, they just don't know when. That is the reply, like everything they have ever done, it has no date on it until it is about to come. That is that, there is nothing unique to this situation, nothing unique to this circumstance. If you think it is a shoddy way to run a business, fine, but practically everyone here has been around for over a year according to their little bios, so this lack of a specific release date should not be a surprise to anyone here.

You have been warned to stop bringing politics into this thread, you continue to do so. You either cannot comprehend the simple logic at hand here, or, more likely, you are trying to be a victim, you are continuing to bring up politics as a way to force this thread to close down so you can claim DTG are silencing you.

These forums belong to DTG, not randoms on the internet, it's DTG paying for the servers to host them, paying for community managers to moderate them, so they are within their rights to keep whatever topics they want out of the forums, you are within your rights to start your own forum where anything goes. If they tell you something is off limits, and you continue to go there, and the thread gets shut down, the only person to blame is you. This is an internet forum about a video game, not 'I can say whatever I want about whatever I want" world.

 

Imagine! Just imagine a forum for people to voice their opinions without going through you for approval. What a world!

DTG infuses this game with politics. If they refrained and stayed in their lane, I'd agree with you completely. However this unfortunately isn't the case.