Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by longo239, Jun 11, 2020.
When can I book Tsw2
Assuming you mean "order," well... they said they didn't have a preorder discount worked out, but acted like that wasn't going to be decided until later, so for now just assume that you can't order it until it releases on August 6th, which is the planned release date according to Steam.
So...wow...I have to collect my thoughts here first...
The answers on the stream were kind of a let down to be honest. I liked how they kept them frank and to the point, even if Matt needed some nudging in that direction here and there.
So the price of the new game isn't that high in my opinion, considering you get at least two new routes and new features. The roadmap of future content is also nice. But that's really the only positives I can take from this. Everything else is just...I don't know, underwhelming.
Why on earth wouldn't they let us use existing stock from TSW2020 on new routes? For example, the Koln to Aachen high speed route could use DB BR 185 loco and freight wagons to incorporate freight traffic on the route... The DB BR 146 could run RE services... A lot is already at disposal to complete the route at the release, but no. DTG decided they won't update old content so it's unusable on new routes. And I have this feeling that I'm gonna have to buy new, updated stock (possibly even the same locos that are already in TSW2020!) just to complete the route.
And on top of that, all TSW2020 content will no longer be bug fixed nor upgraded in any capacity, which was my first worry of happening since TSW2 was announced.
I don't know...I changed my vote to this poll from "yes, as soon as possible" to "possibly, eventually". It's just a let down, that's all.
Yes, will pre-order and play on first day.
Same here will not change my mind either will still be getting it when it releases.
If it has the full Bakerloo line route, I will get it as soon as it's released
Not supporting the old stock on new routes is disappointing to me. It seemed like the substitution system was one of the real improvements in TSW from TS1, and having to start again on that kind of sets it back. (Especially if you work on the basis that there may be another compatibility break in 3-4 years time, which doesn't seem implausible).
Beyond that it's 2 new routes, both of which provisionally look reasonably interesting. My usual estimate of route gameplay value is about £5/route so I'll probably get it when the collection costs about £10.
This is a no-brainer* purchase. But this will not be going on my PS4... I am shifting this to PC (but only for saving HDD space and the better advantage on sales on PC products down the line....). NB: The "June sale" is now on.... (https://store.dovetailgames.com/uk/sale).... ;-)
I'd buy TSW 2 for the Bakerloo Line alone..., and the Cologne ICE/Talent route is a bonus. I'd also buy it just for the livery editor - there are very many hours of fun to be had with that. Hopefully they will build on the 40+ standard decals/shapes - you really need about 200 (an alpha-numeric collection is x36 just for a start....).... handling of x500 applied decals in the art utility is very much welcome - just about right.
NB: I very strongly recommend this purchase to PS4/XBox players - the CSX: HH route is massive. If you've not seen it before, you will find the functions/features quite revealing.... (assuming they have not been sliced out).
*assuming the Class 47 actually gets fixed (the patch is due to be out in the next seven days....)
Of course I will be purchasing TSW2. This is basically asking do you no longer want to play any new routes and locos from this point forwards...?
The price of TSW2 is reasonsable as we are essentially getting 2 new routes for the price of 1 along with the livery and scenario editors. This price may be reduced even more if any loyalty discounts get applied.
I am a bit bummed about the dynamic weather and not being able to play any TSW1 locos on the TSW2 routes....but it is what it is
I think everyone appreciates the honestly, but let's be honest, this was pretty much just all disappointment though the whole stream. Even they acknowledged it, at one point he literally said "let's go to the next disappointing question". To pretty much all questions about potential game improvements the answer was "no".
I can see that their intentions are good, and maybe they will be able to start making things better starting from here onwards, but currently it's a big disappointment. Pretty much everything people were hoping for was confirmed to not come, even though some of them were promised for years now.
I really wish they could pull themselves together and make what they want because TSW has so much potential, but currently this is a big meh. I will probably not be buying it at launch, unless something else changes my mind, because I was mostly looking forward to actual game improvements and the scenario editor, but the latter will not even be usable for the old routes. So what I was looking forward to the most, to make new scenarios with proper traffic to LIRR (because it's my favorite route), is not gonna happen. Other than the London Underground route there is no appeal in TSW2 to me so far, because I don't care about the ICE route, and I already have Sand Patch Grade, and I will not be buying it again just to have even the working level crossings removed from the only route that had them to begin with.
Maybe if it launches and it turns out to be really good for some reason, or if future DLCs are good and bring improvements, I will get it. But at launch, I will most likely skip it for now and stick to TSW2020.
I guess I will let this one pass, until deeply discounted, or, our friend trainsim.cz, find an way to let us use our TSW2020 stock in TSW2 with the scenario/quick drive editor.
I'm quite disappointed in how this turned out.
The old trains can't work in the new version because they aren't compatible.
If you check out my last post .. they had my full support. After watching the vod of the Q&A stream, I am immensely conflicted. The more I think about it, the more doubt I have. It just seems to be TSW1 but on a newer version of UE4 that isn't going to change a damn thing of any significance and minus the several hundred dollars worth of content I have purchased thus far. That new Class 20 that is set to be released soon? Straight out of the new packaging and into the "preserved" dump. No livery editor. No scenario planner (let's be honest here Matt .. it's quick drive). Nothing. Locked away to the confines of TVL never to be touched again. I hope it's released bug free. They said it themselves .. no further work will be done on any TSW2020 content PERIOD. Their entire focus will be on TSW2.
Even when looking into more detail at the new features that they are bringing into TSW2, it looks less impressive. No improvements on lighting. No improvements on shadows. Graphical fidelity improvement? We'll see. No improvements on sound. I'm not expecting any changes to the MS paint sky box aside from them adding new layers of clouds as stated but we'll see about that when the time comes.
In my own "outside looking in" opinion it looks like DTG shot themselves in the foot in 2 aspects. Choosing unreal engine and requiring an absolute "one size fits all" parity between consoles and PC. If UE was the "perfect" engine for the simulation we would be so much farther along with this simulation than where we are right now and we would of had a public editor by now. The announcement of UE5 means nothing. Also on that editor note, as they stated; it has been officially canned. They are not working the public editor at all. That leaves a sour taste in the mouth. As for consoles well .. they said they don't want to treat consoles user like second class citizens which is fine but IMO, by doing so, they are holding back the other part of their community on PCs. Console can have the biggest audience on this platform, that doesn't bother me whatsoever. The entry level to get into consoles is so much simpler .. plug and play and spend less money doing so versus getting into the PC market properly. I think TSW needs to be labeled what it is .. a console game with a PC edition. As long as the game is set to the standard to function on consoles that is all it will be. A console arcade train driving game. The game will never reach it's full potential. This paragraph is my opinion so take it as you will.
Sam, a personal message to you sir if you read this. You did an outstanding job on that stream. You conducted yourself professionally, kept yourself and Matt accountable and said what NEEDED to be said. The truth hurts but I know that personally, I needed to hear it. Thank you for doing what no one else in that company seems to have the gall to do, and be real. On that note I don't believe this will be a day 1 purchase for myself. I'll look towards the future for more updates to see what more y'all have to say. For now, I think I am going to crack open my TS1 collection.
The lighting definitely looks better.
TSW has never looked this good.
That's a promo shot and pretty much means nothing. And tbh I don't see anything better on it, it's simply the stronger gamma that makes it look better.
Not until I can see that's its not a buggy mess based in a dry and sterile world. Historically quality control has been shocking so that's the biggest brake on any purchase out of the box for me..
I will be buying day 1. It's 2.5 routes (HH is new for me on Xbox, but i've already paid for it in original TSW, so i'm splitting the difference lol) for the price of one, if nothing else.
Seriously, though, I'm excited for HH, as US Freight is my favorite and I still have fond memories of MLT's Sandpatch Grade way back in MSTS. Bakerloo and Koln-Aachen seem interesting to me as well.
I think the overall engine improvements will be noticeable, and upgraded simulation aspects (adhesion and variable weights) will really add to immersion. Scenario planner could be cool, but lack of sharing is disappointing- i understand it with the livery editor due to licensing issues, but I think scenario sharing with a robust user-rating system for weeding out poor content would have been a great addition.
I do wish they had upgraded one or more of the most complete TSW routes and associated DLC to TSW2 standards. I'd say PC, MSB/HHR, and TVL would have been good candidates as they (mostly) work, and have a wide variety of content across them. I think DTG missed an opportunity there to get TSW2 off to a stronger start. But, they'll still be playable in their current form, so i'm OK with that.
So, overall a mixed bag, but if you're really not excited, nothing to lose by waiting until TSW2 content you're more interested in comes out. For me, there's enough new and improved to justify a purchase.
For DTG to get away with this. I would expect no less than 3 pieces of stock with every new route. I fear we will be sold routes with tsw1 stock thats been made compatible.
When I drive NTP I can safely say that when I'm in standedge tunnel I actually can't wait to get out of the damn thing....
Probably means an underground route ain't for me.....
An underground route, feature rich, done properly could be a really atmospheric and immersive experience. That Q/A has left me with absolutely no faith that DTG will achieve any of the above.I’ll stick with TSW20, and maybe keep a sceptical tab on TSW2.
I'll probably give it a while to see how it grows, get more and more interested until a point when there's some good looking routes and an edition including at least one of them in a sale at a good price then I'll buy...
...Just before TSW3 is released as a paid upgrade including steam locomotives or some other feature that has already been anticipated for years...
TSW3 as a paid upgrade wouldnt bother me. Its the impression that theyve dumped all our tsw20 collection out of convenience. Then to take the mickey, dont appear to have innovated with the new routes.
Well at least you won't be disappointed!
But will the TSW2 routes then also become a preserved collection to join those from TSW1?
I wouldnt have minded paying an extra tenner. £35 not £25 if it meant my preserved locos were brought properly into TSW2.
Who knows. Say one thing do another.
All I would say to most of the above is, stop anticipating things. Until something has an actual release date, it doesn't exist.
A lot of the issues people have are based on what we expected from TSx and that Matt hoped (and therefore stated as forthcoming) at the beginnings of TSW. Things have moved on since then, often sideways or backwards, but we know the beast that is TSW so we should base our opinions on what IS rather than what we thought it should be
Will I buy TSW2... I am not sure, because I don't play TSW that much so until there's a differentiator in actual driving from TSx I might stand pat. The mastery, gizmos and gimmicks aren't what I want in a simulator. The scenario editor is an interesting one, and the only downside is I won't have access to what others do. Reskins get annoying, needing to access 30 different sites to find scenario requirements so that's hardly an issue for me either. It all comes down to the driving and the biggest issue there is all lights are green... yawn
One of the biggest issues for me is that any DLC I have bought so far will not be compatible with any of the new features that TSW 2 may or may not bring.
Yes, I will be able to drive them in TSW 2 but as I am understanding it, it will be more equivalent to a built in TSW2020 "emulator" to save me just running TSW2020.
The whole everyone must be equal means that the game is apparent being made to accommodate the lowest denominator, in this case the console because of it's lack of sharing capabilities and possibly the restrictions the manufacturers (Sony and Microsoft) impose with regard to pricing etc. This therefore means that other formats, the PC, is going to be held back feature wise.
Yes, I see and hear that consoles are the largest demographic, therefore the biggest source of income but should that be a reason to restrict the games potential for other platforms?
Traditionally, serious simulators have been the realm of the PC because of the flexibility to create, develop and share content. Then a version may be ported to console which have been traditionally purely gaming machines for entertainment.
DTG for some reason appear to want to turn that around and make TSW a console "game" which also runs on a PC.
They also appear to no longer want the community to be able to create the huge amount of content like that which has been created for TS1. This was covered in the video when Matt replied that people shouldnt be modding TSW. Why? Is it because some of it's better than what they have been turning out recently? Is it impacting on their sales?
I was disappointed with the release announcement, went into the stream hoping to have my opinion at least swayed if not changed, but came away with more doubts, which is a shame because I have put a lot of hours and money into TS1 and TSW. I was honestly looking forward to the next generation, but won't blindly pay out just because it's there.
For the time being, I'll spend my £24.99 in the June sale or the Steam sale and pick up some of the TS1 routes I'm missing.
Is this editor going to be on tsw or tsw 2 or both please? Tbh I was too angry to read the FAQ
Neither. This was made absolutely clear in the stream.
100% yes. I am buying all train simulators to show support for the very small genre that is on the verge of extinction at times. This genre doesn't afford to loose a single developer.
Yup. I can see the frustration. Depends on if you think of TSW2 as a continuation of TSW1 or a brand new iteration. I work on the latter
The irony of your definite "No" and your signature "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt" is not lost on me.
The fact that you take a "No" as a reason to write this ^, neither.
Because the quality of their work is severely lacking. This extra transparency is great, because it shows how bad of a company DTG truly is.
EDIT: To clarify, if DTG was a company that actually cared about the quality of their work, stood by it after releasing it, and treated their customers like people instead of wallets, this sort of communication would help them rather than hurt them.
Nah, I can tell just by looking at it that they are using the same outdated lighting methods. UE4 supports filmic lighting (aka a much higher fstop range), but DTG does not take advantage of it, which is why headlights still visibly shine on objects during the day. Basically, their daytime lighting is as bright as a real day would be at dusk or dawn, when it does not need to be.
I can't see any point in buying the sim then, it's pointless. I can travel most of the routes on tsw in real life, I can go to Brighton hop on a train to Eastbourne or go to Paddington and catch a train to reading! What I can't do is travel on old lines that no longer exist which dtg seem to have no interest in whatsoever. I've happily sat on ts for weeks creating my own routes which I enjoy whereas the couple of years tsw has been out I've spent 20 hours or so on it because even though the routes are brilliant there's nothing to do. I purchased the east coastway and was surprised that I could use the class 45 and 47 but not the class 33 a loco that you would typically see on that line back in the day. There's sidings and branches included in the routes that you can't actually use because there's no scenarios for them, no quick drive and no options to make scenarios yourself.
I became a little bit angry as there was said during the QA that locos are "preserved" and incompatible with new routes.
I might get TSW2 and cry awfully because of the lost progress. Cool to get the tutorials again of the now 3rd time bought loco.
I'll stop my "get all DLC approach" until years and stick to German stuff, this time sale only and with as much vouchers I can get. I don't want to be a strong supporter for some years because obviously they are doing fine.
I agree with your opinion I also will limit my self to only USA trains & possible some UK routes
Me too, and I don't get why they can't make them compatible. It would add so much more variation to the new routes, as there are a lot of locos which can't be added in those routes. What is the point of a preserved collection when not everything works together?
Hey, another German collector I always only bough German DLC's because they appealed the most to me. Sometimes a British DLC however is also great for a change. That's of course my personal taste
That's a tautology rather than an explanation: DTG are the ones that decide whether they're compatible. It's not just something that "magically" happened outside anyone's control.
I was looking forward to finding out what we had in store in the new version but I'm just left disappointed.
For me, it's always been too restrictive on gameplay. We can't use a lot of sidings, we can't add stock to them either. We have shunters on a lot of routes and can't use them fully! We can't make trains up really (short van trains on NTP, I'm looking at you). There's too much normal railway stuff we cannot do. Maybe some of this will be addressed in the scenario editor but I'm not holding my breath. If they just changed this one thing it would make the whole game much more playable and increase it's longevity.
My other gripe is a while ago Matt said they couldn't figure out a memory issue with NTP causing it to crash or run poorly but they are working on it. So now TSW1 routes won't see any updates, is that work out the window too... Or will the TSW1 routes that we have to download again for TSW2 get updates while anything on TSW1 gets left behind? Food for thought or maybe I'm looking for hope in an otherwise blunt description in that stream. I find it hard to believe they would release dlc (class 20) so close to the new version and then not support it after TSW2.
I think TSW has a lot of potential and I'm hoping more details will come out soon but for now I am not buying until I see more reason to.
I want to see how the roadmap will work, Definite purchase if anything to do with the WCML is on
After watching the stream I have mixed feelings as well that need to get written down somewhere and this is probably the best fitting thread for it.
To be honest, after the stream I had the same feeling than when my favorite football team lost- and this state of very bad mood usually lasts up to several days
For me, being a xbox user from germany, there are two major pros:
The ICE (finally!!) and the on first hand fair looking price.
But, if you look closer:
Nearly every following german route would need Dostos and 146, 425 for passenger, 185 and 182 for freight... and so on. And they would be needed due to the high spreading of those locos and wagons in germany.
Yes, there are other types as well but if you have nearly fully functioning models that need only 5% of the work in comparison to a built from scratch, which would you use? And which would you sell for a full price (again)?
So I have a feeling that TSW2 now looks like a bargain but will turn out another way if we get a 'remastered' 146, 185, 425 again in upcoming DLCs.
Together with the Non- functionality of the Editor tools and the missing Integration of existing stock in new routes this really turns me off. Cologne - Aachen could get absolutely fantastic with the ICE3, Talent2 and Dosto and freight action. In former DLCs this worked before, why not here?
The livery editor is a bit different though. I used to make liveries for Forza 3-7 and FH a lot, using an ingame editor on console. So that's no problem - but the 3D models have to be built for using such an editor. This indeed can cause an extremely high amount of remodeling.
But I don't think it were only technical issues that stopped realising a compatibility in the scenario editor.
If I would be responsible for income numbers of DTG this would be a welcome 'problem' because of the written above.
And, by the way, I was really looking forward to create own scenarios such as Regional Express runs on MSB, shunting on RRO, freight action on ECW... but well, have to live with that.
I just think those routes/ DLCs are too good and provide too much fun for being led down like that.
But finally - I think I'll buy TSW2. But mainly for one reason: my little son wants to see a drive in an ICE and isn't satisfied with the 'blue ICE' on GWE and I want to see him freaking out of joy if he sees that . And this sums up the magic TSW can give very good, which always leads me to that feeling when there's a moment again when it only uses 10% of its potential.
This was now far longer than originally intended- if anyone is still reading sorry for that and to Sam: You made the right decision with that stream and the major improvement of the communication. Please continue in that way, although it's far more difficult than before. But if it wouldn't be difficult, anybody could do it and in long terms you'll receive much more out of it.
Here's a little gift for you... a blue 155 on GWE at Paddington..... just to show the magic of TS1..... ;-)
Wait, that's illegal.
Here is the snow better than TSW1 (I hope it will be more realistic)
It appears that DTG have adopted "Silent Running" mode once more in these forums since last night?
Maybe things haven't gone exactly to plan as far as the feedback they were expecting?
I have to be honest.... on the surface... everything about TSW 2 looks really great to me.... The only thing that is bugging me is this idea that they do not intend to fix bugs... which I think must be a misunderstanding..... The next key events for me are:
- seeing the Class 47 patch delivered for PS4 and XBox (imminent);
- getting clarification on whether the new Class 20 will be supported.... or "preserved" on 6th August (even if it is broken); and,
- getting clarification on what the heck the "Your Biggest Issues" exercise was for......
And then I will reconsider whether I will purchase TSW 2. My instant reaction was that I would purchase TSW 2 (as a "no brainer"...).... but I am currently in the "absolutely not" camp.... not until we get progress/clarification on the above three issues.
Regarding communication.... I genuinely think that DTG Protagonist brought in a breath of fresh air.... but if his efforts have now been boxed in.... as so often happens with eager and enthusiastic "agents for change".... then you know what the story of Dovetail will be in the years to come.... as you'll just have to look at the past.... with no change....
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