Will You Buy Tsw 2?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by longo239, Jun 11, 2020.

?
  1. Yes, as soon as possible.

  2. Possibly, eventually.

  3. No

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  1. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    They never said they weren't going to fix TSW2 bugs. As for the biggest issues, that could be for what they fix for TSW2.
     
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  2. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    They did say they weren't going to fix TSW bugs after the release of TSW2.

    Therefore, issues with the M3 which is less than a month old and the more than likely issues with the forthcoming Class 20 will not be fixed once TSW 2 is released.
     
  3. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Sam has been a breath of fresh air. I like his style, his attitude and I trust him. However, he does appear to have his hands tied somewhat. Unfortunately, he's got the job of trying to convince us all how wonderful TSW 2 is.
     
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  4. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Because it is. The driving experience has been improved.
     
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  5. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    How do you know? Have you driven it yet? Or is this comment based on what you have been told?
     
  6. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    With what? Wheel slip? That's pretty much the only simulation improvement so far and it will be only noticeable on Sand Patch Grade, because EMUs barely have problem with that. Maybe at braking in very extreme conditions, but that's all.
     
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  7. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    There will be more trains later too.
     
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  8. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Apologies, I didn't realize you were a DTG staff member as the user name is usually prefixed with DTG. Thanks for the information.
     
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  9. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    It's public knowledge that there will be more...
     
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  10. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Sure, and I will be happy to buy TSW2 if it offers more content that I am interested in (and more game improvements). But so far in launches with new features that can barely be used, because wheel slip is rare, and the scenario and livery editors don't have sharing function built in and don't work with the old routes.
     
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  11. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    When the road map is released by the end of July you will see what will be released as far as content
     
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  12. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

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    路線圖在6月底發布後
     
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  13. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Not if you read the FAQ the road map is to be release a week before TSW2, given that TSW2 is to be released Aug 6 that puts the release of the road map at the end of July not June.
     
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  14. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    The only thing that has been announced so far that I'm aware of is TSW2 with ICE 3, Bakerloo and CSX:HH.

    Could you point me in the direction of your information or is it internal memos you are quoting? In which case you should be careful as I would have thought they would be embargoed and I wouldn't want you to get in trouble.
     
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  15. rabid

    rabid Well-Known Member

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    The stream was quite disheartening but I am fairly certain most of the legacy rolling stock will return in one form or another. DTG now have a portfolio of TSW1 stock some of which will be updated for TSW2 to be reused with minimal effort on future routes. This new stock will be able to be used by the Scenario Planner etc. Of course it would be much better if DTG committed to steadily updating our TSW1 stuff to TSW2 standard, but that would require them to pay several resources for zero revenue which does not fit in with their business strategy. One could argue that the good will that would be garnered from the community with that approach would offset the cost to a certain degree.

    I do feel let down by the fact that all the DLC I have invested in is being effectively written off in one fell swoop, and if updated could have had a new lease of life in TSW2. I for one will be much more careful in future about DLC purchases for TSW2; come the release of TSW3, they too could be rendered redundant! In fact I cannot bring myself to play the game at the moment but I will get over it no doubt.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
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  16. Mikey_9835

    Mikey_9835 Well-Known Member

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    I will 100% be getting it day 1, I want this game to evolve and £25 is a generous price. However the preserved collection situation is baffling. How is it I can run a GP38 on the Bakerloo line, but I can't use any of the existing rolling stock I own? The new German route has the talent 2, so clearly old stock is compatible.

    It just feels like a reset, we can run 8 different locos right now on HRR, now you're saying with TSW 2 that we can only run 2 on the Koln route?

    If DTG are serious about communicating more, than we should at least know why we can't have certain features. I mean how can you add a feature that lets you share in game screenshots but console players still can't disable the HUD without a keyboard?! It's madness, what's next you need a mouse to change the audio settings? It's crazy.

    Also Sam if you read this message, Thank You for opening up and letting us know about these features. You did a great job getting clear non-vague answers. I'd rather take the dissapointment now rather than on launch day. Keep up the communication.

    I just want this game to be the best it can be, but there's a long road ahead.
     
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  17. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    The roadmap...
     
  18. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't aware it had been released yet. If possible, would you be able to share a copy? If it would get you in trouble with your employers sharing it publicly here I'm sure we could find a means of you getting a copy to me and I'd keep what I saw to myself. Thanks.
     
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  19. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I myself would be interested in knowing how you know the roadmap and the rest of us don't because it not released to us yet.
     
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  20. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I think (and I hope) that you are right.

    If the only evidence is based on the Q&A stream, then the answer depends on how that discussion is to be interpreted. My interpretation was that Matt was clear (around minute 15) that "Forum feedback" would not be acted on - I don't think this refers to specific bug reports... but rather "desired features". Later in the stream (minute 73), Matt was saying something about needing to be clearer on what could and could not be fixed (and here I think he was talking about bugs, and not suggesting that maintenance will be dropped).

    But it isn't at all clear. And most people seem to take the more negative interpretation.
     
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  21. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    That is the intention/aspiration. It has not been proven yet, but I am hopeful that by announcing adhesion as a feature in TSW 2, that they have actually implemented something substantially different/meaningful, in the wheel/rail physics.

    For me the clue that this is probable, is that they have not really mentioned wheelslip as a feature in TSW2020, but early attempts at implementing it are evident (Class 37 on TVL). By now announcing it as a new feature, I am assuming that they are now happy with their implementation (cf. cabsway).

    But we can't be certain - the proof of the cake is in the eating.
     
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  22. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Anthony seems to have some insight knowledge of TSW 2 before it has even been fully developed and released! Care to share any more of your 'insights' or are you just going purely off what's been advertised on the Q&A?

    No one can possibly know what a game will be like before its been released - so it can't be better or worse unless you've actually played it.
     
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  23. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    He must be Mr.Jackson himself signed in as a pseudo name or a major shareholder ;)
     
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  24. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I'm just going off of available information.
     
  25. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    So you don't work for DTG or know any more than we have been told?

    That's disappointing because from the tone of certainty in your posts, you had me convinced that you were in the know and I was interested to know more about what we could expect.
     
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  26. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Nope
     
  27. xpert2036

    xpert2036 Guest

    I mean he is factual
     
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  28. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    I mean obviously there will be more content down the line- DLC is the basis of the whole revenue model. I realize we shouldn't expect them to overdeliver, but they're not gonna make money on a standalone $30 package.

    I think it's also very likely we'll see recycled routes and/or locos from TSW in TSW2. Will they never have a CL66, or a BR146? Seems unlikely. This happened from TS20XX to TSW, of course, but the difference is TSW has been out for far less time.

    I think DTG have a very tricky balancing act ahead of them. Some periodic free updates of popular preserved routes would generate a lot of community goodwill, that's for sure.
     
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  29. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Isn't the GP part of CSX:HH which they already said they're bringing forward as a remastered TSW2 route (along with consists) so that train will BE a TSW2 train rather than the rest being retained content?
     
  30. Matto140

    Matto140 Well-Known Member

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    You can use new stock on new(renew) routes only via scenario planer limited by traction type (diesel everywhere, electric only on electrified routes). Matt don't tell us if also catenary/third rail will be separated. Maybe in future also different traction systems will be supported like DC 1,5kV/DC 3kV/AC 15kV 16⅔Hz/AC 25kV 50Hz. (look at DB BR 185.5 from RRO)
    Preserved stock will work as now on preserved routes.
    That Talent 2 for new Köln-Aachen route will be remastered version of RT one, most likely in DB red livery, with working destinaton boards.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
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  31. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I believe in the past they mentioned that they are handled differently in the game. So you can't use a train that uses third rail for power under catenary and expect it to work. It needs third rail and even the correct type of voltage, etc. At least that's what they said a while back.
     
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  32. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Anthony is quite right. There will be more trains and routes released after the first three routes. Nobody knows what those will be yet and he’s not claiming to know what they are. Neither he, you or I needs an internal memo to know that new routes and trains will come and they may be announced in the roadmap, which we all know is coming, and will be published closer to the release.
     
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  33. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, factual in that he is repeating some of what we all have been told.

    But some of his posts are made using assumptions, that have not been announced or confirmed by DTG, but are written in such a manner that they too appear factual. For example, "the driving experience has been improved" and "it's in the roadmap". Hence my assumption he was part of the development team or an employee of DTG.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
  34. Matto140

    Matto140 Well-Known Member

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    Do they have also defititions for different track gauges?
     
  35. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I don't know. I remember they once talked about dual gauge tracks and that they can theoritically be made in the game, the only challenge would be the rendering of junctions.

    But I don't know if the game would make a difference between track gauges, if they ever made a narrow gauge route. Like I know Train Simulator doesn't care and allows you to put trains on different gauge tracks, but who knows if it works the same way in TSW.
     
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  36. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Well it is obvious there will be more content released in the future, you don't need to have insider knowledge to know that! Or do you think DTG will release TSW2 and then say to themselves, "thats it, job done, we don't need to make any more DLC"?

    It seems everyone is making their own assumptions on what the future holds, I think most people tend to read the FAQ and watch the stream and then put their own spin on it. I am not sure having a go at other members just because they hold a different position to you is the right way to go about things.

    I certainly wouldn't be surprised if at some point TSW1 content will be usable in TSW2. Personally I don't think it was wise to rule that out completely as it is obviously going to cause some angst, however I don't know the ins and outs and maybe this new version is such a step forward that it is impossible to use the older content. I wonder if they were going a bit too far in being honest as I get the feeling some of the answers of "no" were in fact deep down, "possibles", but they don't want to say possibly as that will be seized upon here in two years time as a "DTG promised in June 2020 that this was happening or they would do that and they haven't". So it is best to say no.

    Maybe the community has in a way made a rod for their own back, or maybe DTG did that themselves, or a bit of both.
     
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  37. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    I suspect that you are right, however did anyone predict before the announcement on June 9th that DTG would in effect be drawing a line under TSW2020 and starting with a new game. The events of 2020 in general should be making everyone think that nothing is guaranteed.

    Nobody, as in me, which I believe you are implying is having a go at anyone. I purely asked Anthony Pecoraro if he was an employee of DTG as the content and tone his posts are written with a certainty and authority that gave me the impression he knew more than had been made public.

    Again, I hope you are right and some of my existing rolling stock at least, will be usable without having to buy it again. But, it is DTG that have decided that content is incompatible, no one else. Otherwise CSX:HH wouldn't be getting carried forward. There would be three new routes as opposed to the two new routes announced.

    Again, I believe you are right. DTG Protagonist has been a breath of fresh air as Community Manager, however I wonder if his successor will be as strong and forthright, bearing in mind they will, most likely be younger, less experienced and less likely to rock the boat in their brand new job. At least not to begin with.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
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  38. Wilbnil

    Wilbnil Well-Known Member

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    I will most likely buy TSW2 at launch because of the route selection offered for a reasonable price. It is nice to see a change from slower paced Ruhr routes to high speed for Germany. I am also really excited to see London underground in the game.

    That being said it is worrying to hear that TSW1 content won't be supported after TSW2. This means lost opportunities for substitusions and gameplay for upcoming routes. I am also wondering if we will see the rolling stock from TSW1 coming later in TSW2, but how? and at what price? I am just hoping we won't need to buy the stock we purchased for TSW1 again to use them in future routes, but I can definitely see this becoming the reality here.
     
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  39. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    It was a general comment not aimed at anyone.

    Of course he isn't an employee, he would be sacked for giving out information like that, your comment did sound a little disingenuous if I am honest. However it seems that just because he is passionate some people want to almost verbally beat it out of him, if his enthusiasm doesn't fit their agenda, again not aimed at you, it is a general observation.

    We should all try and get along whatever direction we feel the sim is going in, and I say that admittedly as someone who has been somewhat combative myself on occasions, which I am doing my best not to be!
     
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  40. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    I admire his optimism and enthusiasm and have no desire or intention to dissuade anyone from their view or opinion.

    However, "The FAQ says..." or "In my opinion..." as opposed to "It will..." would have been a better response to people's questions.
     
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  41. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I think that DTG actually do this, to a certain extent.... every single time that they release a new route DLC (for each of the three main regions). You can adopt different approaches/responses to this:

    1. Embrace it (and fund it) as an opportunity to very very slowly watch a train simulator develop on a new/developing platform that will hopefully be sustainable for a long time into the future.
    2. Be upset about the continuous (but very very slow) change, and the perceived implications for your previous investment.....
    3. Ditch TSW - and return to (or try for the first time...) the more mature/stable Train Simulator (TS1), which actually has far more and better developed simulation functions.... and can actually look really good.

    I think that the main problem that people struggle with is that TSW (and TSW 2) is not (yet) a modernised TS1. TSW doesn't have an editor. TSW doesn't have universal "Quick Drive". TSW doesn't have extensions or route merges........It doesn't... quite a lot of things... yet.....

    It could take ten years for TSW, TSW 2, or TSW 5 to become what people want it to be. It could take twenty years to complete the project. In the meantime, there is TS1, and the very slowly evolving TSW.... which for me isn't really a proper train simulator (but TS1 is).... but it is immensely fun to walk-around and listen to (sound engineering is normally better in TSW than TS1, when they can be bothered to test it....).

    That said, if TSW 2 actually has proper adhesion physics that depends on weather.... than that could literally be a game-changer.... ;-)

    -------------------------------
    PS: I am starting to think that maybe the negative reaction from many is because TSW was/is sold as a major evolution of TS1, when it absolutely isn't (yet). It was actually a major step backwards, for all practical purposes, starting from a clean slate. And this "raised expectation" is the fault of the Company's Marketing Department, which should, in my opinion, suffer the same fate as the Marketing Division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation.

    Funnily enough, I am/was immune to this problem because I used TSW before I tried TS1. I was wowed by TSW..... and then when I tried TS1.... I found something much much better. For people going in the other direction, more consistently with the arrow of time...., I suspect that TSW was, and continues to be, quite a disappointment.... and that TSW 2 is just another repeat/reminder....
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
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  42. paulgregs

    paulgregs Active Member

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    I'll certainly be reading up what you guys on here have to say about it before buying....
    And I'll probably want at least 3 decent British routes first, so how far away that is lord knows....
    I think my mentality of buying stuff to help support a long term project have been irreversibly tarnished....
     
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  43. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I came to TS1 back in 2007 when it was Rail Simulator (I found the original box and disc the other day) after years of MSTS. I basically stopped using MSTS after a couple of years when new add-ons starting to emerge for Rail Simulator/Railworks.

    In contrast I am now using TS1 more than ever, partly as this lockdown has given me time to make scenarios. I don't use TSW that much at the moment although it is nice to fire it up sometimes, TS1 can look extremely good and with some of the advanced add-ons can be truly immersive.

    I do think TSW(2) has a future and potential, as it looks good graphically and I like service mode etc, and I will purchase TSW2 when it comes out, but I think the fact they are starting again has put it back three years.

    In fact, in a way, I am more looking forward to seeing what TS1 content is coming up!
     
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  44. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Member

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    I agree, if dtg can make routes and locos from the early version of train simulator work on the latest version what's the difference with tsw? Tsw has become a money exploit! Bored already? No problem buy another route with very limited scenarios! and when your bored after a few hours we have got this dlc you can purchase, a new loco with a few more scenarios and so on.
     
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  45. Thelonius16

    Thelonius16 Well-Known Member

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    Service/timetable mode is a big difference-maker in terms of replayability compared to a stand-alone authored scenario. To me, that’s what makes TSW more interesting and fun than TS1.

    I just wish the creativity and gameplay on service mode was more consistent from route to route. Some routes have cool things to do throughout service mode while others are just a long list of “there and back”.

    And of course a “make (and share) your own service mode” option would have a lot more potential than a scenario editor that’s locked on my own PC.
     
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  46. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Yes. It's a great feature, but sometimes it's barealy more than trains going from one end of the route to the other end in every hour or so, even though there is so much more potential in it.

    Penninsula Corridor does it pretty good, especially with the small shunter addon, because in that there are the trains going from A to B in either all-stop or express format, also freight with interactive industries and different freight car drop offs and pickups around sidings. Wish more of the routes had this variety in service mode.

    But this is just TSW in a nutshell. Great ideas and potential, but that potential is not used fully in 80% of the times, even if if would require minimal effort compared to how much it would improve the experience.
     
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  47. paulgregs

    paulgregs Active Member

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    I always thought service mode was best if you conitiued free roam so at WSR you can do a loco move before preparing for journey....

    Stuff like using the loco brake before releasing the train brake, getting the coach lighting on, headlight and markers, etc....

    Means sitting around for 15 mins until departure, but I always liked the underwhelming anticipation of the wait....
     
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  48. jdk2

    jdk2 New Member

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    What they say they will do and what they actually do are two completely different things. If history is an indicator of things to come, we'll be sorely disappointed.
     
  49. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I think that despite all the moaning I'll probably end up buying TSW 2 on release. Three routes for £25 is good value for money.

    However, in the future I'm going to be a lot more careful about buying DLC. I purchased a number of random DLC that wasn't hugely interesting to me, but thought I'd give a go regardless. With the way they've just discarded this collection, I don't feel it worth my while to continue doing this.

    Short term they'll get my £25, long term they will probably sell me 50% of the DLC they used to.
     
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  50. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    For me maybe the class 20 dlc. Then keep an occasional eye on the progress of tsw2
     

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