You Have To Be Kidding,rivet Games,right?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by SHINO BAZ, Feb 24, 2021.

  1. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    So rivet games is taking a page from dtg(classic br blue/yellow 1970's engines collection)and only 4 dlc in and there already recycling a train.The br class 483 1938 tube stock,let's look at why this is questionable dlc.
    1.Br Class 483 1938 tube stock already in game.(Do you think they just forgot it is already here?)
    2.Senario planner can put this train on almost any route.(Including the bakerloo line)
    3.Livery editor can put whatever colors needed to make it route correct.(I'm sure the red color is also included in livery editor)
    This is a waste of time,i'm sure getting the arosa line finished would be time better spent.Then recycling the br class 483.
    Or at the very least dig into the train simulator catolog and pull out a route or loco that would be more welcome then just recycling a current modifilible train.

    Note:If rivet games really wants to do a tube type train at least pick a different one,the class 483 can't be the only options for the bakerloo line.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
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  2. Mr heff

    Mr heff Well-Known Member

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    People have argued that it is a different train, personally I have little interest in the older tube stock but for enthusiasts I think it is something new.
     
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  3. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    What if you don’t own and don’t want to own Isle of Wight but still want the older tube train?

    If it makes Rivet more money for minimal effort then excellent. They can spend extra time on some of their headline DLC’s
     
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  4. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It's not the same train. The 483s were heavily rebuilt (and only had two driving coaches, not the full 7-car Underground consist).
     
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  5. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Oh dear, someone’s missing the point, and complaining unnecessarily.

    It’s the perfect DLC for Rivet to be doing, seeing as they have the Class 483 to adapt to the 1938 stock (It is different so extensive work has to be done still) and there is the route it was used on already there, the Bakerloo Line.

    There aren’t any other trains that they, or anyone else, could make for the Bakerloo Line. It went from the 1938 stock to the 1972 stock and that’s it, unless you go older which isn’t appropriate or even possible.

    You can’t recreate the 1938 stock in livery designer, the train doesn’t have all the carriages, and you can’t replicate a full timetable in scenario planner. It’s a viable DLC, not a “waste of time”.

    Making the 1938 stock won’t affect the finishing of the Arosa line one bit and it’s not recycling a train like DTG do with the Class 101 for instance.

    Not all DLC is meant for you. If you don’t want it, fair enough, but Rivet are right to be making the DLC for those who do.
     
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  6. ghall59

    ghall59 Active Member

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    Don't really understand the hysteria with this sort of thing. If it upsets you that much walk away and leave it in the depot... don't buy it.
     
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  7. railway12

    railway12 Well-Known Member

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    That is called business.
     
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  8. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    I’m not sure what point you are attempting to make.

    If the 1930’s 2 car tube train was a greatly desired DLC where people were willing to get the £20 Isle of Wight route just for the train, then you would be right.

    Alas it is not but some players would still want a proper 1930’s tube train to run on the Bakerloo or wherever.
    Therefore it make sense for Rivet to not alienate them and release this DLC.

    If they did not already have most of the model done for the Isle of Wight then I doubt they’d make the tube train from scratch just for this.
    Fortunately the hard bits are done, all they have to do is add the centre carriages and they should have a nice profitable DLC for not much work.
    They can then spend the extra time and profit they have on one of their bigger releases.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
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  9. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The 1938 tube stock would make more sense for railtour services on the Metropolitan Line but since it's not in the game they have to add them to the Bakerloo Line and they don't even do railtour services on that line in reality which will break realism unless they just simulate how the route would be like in the 40s 50s and 60s but even then the looks of the route probably wouldn't change at all which would kill immersion. I don't see the point of buying this dlc unless your intrested in using the train. I would probably get it if the proper underground line was made to use this train for railtour services.
     
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  10. 43050

    43050 Active Member

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    I think it adds variety, especially if you get a full timetable. Even running it on the modern route it gives the player the opportunity to operate the train like they would have been worked. As much as we would all like to see each route done to an era where the trains fit with the scenery I’d rather have the trains in a modern route so we can get all types of train in all eras running on lines they ran on in their lifetime, even if the scenery isn’t to the same timeframe.

    You wouldn’t dismiss a steam train or a classic multiple unit through your local station nowadays because the loco doesn’t fit in with the modern scenery
     
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  11. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    That would take away from realism since these trains wouldn't run on the BKL in real life in the modern era. It would make more since if they made a old era timetable for this train
     
  12. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    One wonders if it will be a simple DLC with only an asset, or if they'll do similar to the GWE 70s pack in that you will get a secondary timetable just for the new stock.
    If it's more than a stretched IOW train running on the Bakerloo people might look at it differently
     
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  13. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    I mean not wanna sound cheeky but shouldn't that be the no. 1 requirement anyway? :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
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  14. Nidhish Inumala

    Nidhish Inumala Active Member

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    They should make the DLC but at a reduced price because there is actually something to build off of. Not super reduced though, because there is tons of work to be done.
     
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  15. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Personally I would have preferred an LU battery loco (assuming they actually are used on the Bakerloo Line) because we've had nothing like it before, we can get a bit of 'freight' action on the line, and it's more prototypical (at least in the time setting).
     
  16. lttractiongroup

    lttractiongroup New Member

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    Just to clarify a few points here regarding Class 483s, 1938 Tube Stock, the Bakerloo Line and Train Sim World 2.

    First, regarding the currently available units included with the Island Line DLC. These represent the Class 483 fleet in roughly the same condition as they were withdrawn in on January 3rd this year. The only differences between the model available in TSW2 and the units as they stood on that day are that the TSW2 renditions (for several reasons - I can think of licensing and also the difficulty of creating the NSE livery in the livery editor) are in Network Southeast livery and include unit numbers 001, 003, 005 and never-used 010 which were all scrapped in the early 2000s.

    The Class 483s are two-car EMUs, converted from 1938 Tube Stock Driving Motor cars at Eastleigh Works between 1989 and 1992. The conversion led to multiple differences arising between the 483s and their condition during LT service. There were alterations made to their performance, the cab layout was amended and I believe they were largely re-wired. There were several noticeable cosmetic changes, both internally and externally. Two of the marker lights on the cab front were removed and their holes filled in, the centre marker light being enlarged to create a headlight, the original whistle was removed and a new chime whistle fitted in a new position to the left of the driver's window, the handrails on the cab front were extended, handrails were added either side of the cabside doors, the roof was reprofiled slightly to cover over the original gutters and the inner shoebeams were removed (With one on each side later being reinstated to carry tripcock equipment). Internally, the guards' panels were removed from the 'D' end cars, handrails were removed from the internal draught screens, spring hangers were replaced with handrails, the lighting was replaced with fluorescent tubes (instead of individual bulbs). The modern interiors are also bereft of armrests on the longitudinal seats. The 483s also ride slightly higher than the '38 stock did as their suspensions were modified to cope with the Island Line's notoriously poor trackwork. These are only some of the differences and although they're minor are, in my view, enough to mean that a reskin of the Island Line 483 simply won't cut it as a representation of '38 Tube Stock on the Bakerloo, even making an exception for the fact that the 483s are missing the Trailer and Non-Driving Motor cars found on '38 stock sets.

    Depending upon which specific era of the stock's operation Rivet are looking to represent there is the potential for the following vehicles to be produced;
    • 1938TS Driving Motor. These are the only vehicles for which the 483 model can be used, after being adapted to take into account the modifications made at Eastleigh.
    • 1938TS Trailer. These vehicles would have to be made from scratch, reusing possibly only a few components from the 483 model. They were a feature of all 1938 Tube Stock sets.
    • 1938TS Non-Driving Motor. These vehicles could re-use some components from the 483 model, essentially being the same as the Driving Motors but without the driving cabs. Of course there are several other differences, but there is at least some commonality. These appeared in 4-Car 1938TS sets.
    • 1949TS Uncoupling Non-Driving Motor. These vehicles were very much like the DMs and NDMs, but with a Wedgelock automatic coupler on one end and basic shunting controls to allow uncoupling to take place. They were used with 3-Car sets of 1938TS (coupled to 4-Car sets to make 7-Car trains) to allow sets to be lengthened and shortened during the working day, as demand varied. These were withdrawn quite early as after some time uncoupling during service ceased to be a part of London Underground operations.
    • '58' Trailers. These vehicles comprised 58 1927-Built Standard Stock Trailers, converted to work with the 1938 Tube Stock. They therefore had the distinctive shape and profile of standard stock cars, rather than the smoother outline of the '38 stock cars. I personally feel that inclusion of these vehicles would be an interesting addition but of course they have the downside of requiring a completely new model for every part.
    • 1935TS Conversions. These vehicles were trailers converted from the experimental, streamlined, 1935 Tube Stock units.
    There were also several one-off and experimental vehicles, but I don't think that they would really fall within the bounds of a pack such as this and each one would require a new set of models. There is also some potential for representing units in later departmental service, but again this would require additional models for a really very niche purpose.

    Whether Rivet decide to represent the stock in the condition as used on the Bakerloo from new until 1985 or in preserved LT Museum (Or even LTTG! That would just be the 483 models, mind...) condition is currently unknown. If they are simply to be representing the LTM's set then only 1938 DM, T and NDM cars will be required, and only in the one livery carried by the preserved set in recent times. If they are to represent the stock in Bakerloo condition then the pack will likely be considerably more substantial, containing DM, T, NDM and UNDM cars as well as the '58' Trailers, depending upon how far back in the fleet's history Rivet wants to go.

    Finally, someone up-thread said that the Bakerloo went straight from '38TS to 1972 MKII Tube Stock and that there wasn't any other suitable stock to be produced. This isn't wholly true as the withdrawal of the '38TS was a phased affair which saw a substantial portion of the fleet replaced with 1959 Tube Stock cascaded from the Northern Line. Of course, before the 1938TS entered service there was the Standard Stock and before that the 1906-Built Gate Stock that the line opened with, the 1914 Gate Stock, the 1920TS (On the Bakerloo from 1930), although the earlier stocks are almost certainly never going to appear in TSW2! Standard Stock might stand a chance some day.

    Who knows - Rivet might include all manner of interesting vehicles that are not to be found in the Island Line pack. Before deciding that you'd be best served by a reskin of a train which has never, in its current form, run on the London Underground perhaps wait and see what Rivet will actually be including. I have high hopes for the pack and will, of course, be buying it!
     
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  17. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I know who to come to now when Rivet release the DLC for a good review of how well they have done. I think it was me who said that it went from 1938 stock straight to 1972 stock on Bakerloo so it’s good to be corrected by someone fully in the know. Welcome to the forum by the way!
     
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  18. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Query: aside from the uncoupling units, were the 1949 Stock (or re-issue) visually distinguishable from the 1938?
     
  19. lttractiongroup

    lttractiongroup New Member

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    Well, we'll see about how well they do - I'm happy to be critical too if the situation requires it. I doubt it will, though - they did a pretty good job with the 483. As for "fully in the know" I wouldn't be so sure, but I have spent quite a bit of time researching these units of late, given I'm helping to manage a project to preserve a couple of 483s! I've been on these forums before, but thought I'd set up a new account under the name of the group.
    As far as I am aware they were basically indistinguishable externally. I seem to recall that they may have had slightly different bogies but can't be sure of that. I'm pretty sure that they were withdrawn early on account of being non-standard, but whether that translated into visual differences I'm not sure. I wasn't alive when the stock was in LT service so can't say from personal experience. I'll try and do some more research later.
     
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  20. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    The other big difference between the TSW2 version and the real 483s at the time they were withdrawn is that, by and large, the TSW version doesn’t keep breaking down.
     
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  21. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Och, laddie, I rode them; not just on Bakerloo but on the Northern as well.
     
  22. lttractiongroup

    lttractiongroup New Member

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    Ah, well you must have a decent PC then, unlike me! ;)

    But yes, the last month was really quite shambolic for the 483s. Pity really, although the depot really were trying their best to keep as many in traffic as possible. Hence why one of our units, 006, got a new bogie in December!
     
  23. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    Nope. An Xbox One X!
     
  24. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Newly built or from another unit?
     
  25. lttractiongroup

    lttractiongroup New Member

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    Recently overhauled from the stock of spares which was being held at Doncaster. There were two such Bogies, with the other one now being at Havenstreet on the IoWSR.
     
  26. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    For me the 38 tube stock is interessting enpugh for a buy.

    Just cant understand why rivet doesnt take the chance to sell it with a bakerloo from 1982, where they could bring in the extension to watford.

    There is enough pictures and videomaterial to look how every bakerloo station looked back then.
     
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  27. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    How many people would be happy to see Watford Junction with only the LUL stock?
     
  28. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    At which point Rivet would have to build a whole new route, and sell it at route price.
     
  29. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    I would buy it as a whole route dlc. But yeah thats right, if there is no customer base its a shot in the oven.

    Didnt know route extensions (ts) wouldnt sell good until i read it in this forum.

    Well im interessted in the tube stock anyway. The main difference to bakerloo 1982 beside the longer routes is there are no displays and the tube stations are way dirtier. :) lets surprise what rivet gives us.
     
  30. fabdiva

    fabdiva Well-Known Member

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    I have been on a 1938 trailer - they were on the Tube up until 1994 on the Central Line's Red 1960 units
     

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