Rubbish. Delays to train running are not always down to the Driver/Guard/Signalman - other things cause delays A train was delayed today because of a tree on the line A train was delayed because of the large number of passengers joining at a busy station after a Football match who are you going to punish?
Do you think punctuality is unimportant? But it was light-hearted comment about getting bothered because the game penalizes you hard for being late. To those upset about the scoring I'd say: a) It's a game. b) You can turn scoring off if it bothers you. c) I find the pressure of 'living on the edge' keeps me focused and gives a sense of achievement when you beat the clock. Sure I have to brake so hard it would throw passengers out of their seats, but see a). d) In real life, punctuality is important.
The most import thing on the railway, well British Rail anyway. Was the comfort and safety of the passengers.
Absolutely Mike. Faintly ridiculous though it was, the “PPM” for Inter City trains was 0 to 9 minutes late regarded as on time. 0 to 4 for other services with the odd exception such as Heathrow Express which was 0 to 2. And it remains a fact that whatever the reason for being late, it might be outside the player control so unfair that slightly missing one arrival time fails the entire run (Standard) with Stainmore being a prime example of that after struggling to keep a steamer struggling up the hill, or watching the XP slip away in career.
It is only a simulator. Some of the programming has been done unrealistically with respect to real time. Since this IS the case, why sweat the small stuff (trying to keep to times which may or may not be realistic) and just switch off the Career scoring. Sure you may still fail if you disobey basic skills like missing the platform or not stopping at red. Everything else is your experience and you will know how you performed. It is all about enjoyment. Respectfully
The point is, it would be quite easy for scenario authors (if they could be bothered) to go into the parameters and change them to make it less onerous. Ironically with the career scenarios, even if you finish on -20k points because of being 90 seconds late at a couple of stations, so long as you make the stop you don't fail the objective and still get the scenario shown as complete with a green tick. It's the Standard ones which are the pain in the jacksie as just one failed objective means you fail the scenario. I for one at least like to know which scenarios I've done and the only way you can get that with Standard is to hit every objective spot on. If DTG were to change one thing with TSC before putting it out to pasture, that would be to remove scenario killing penalties from the game.
It is because the scenario creators do not adjust the expected performance ratio. They leave it at the default 75% expected performance value. It can be altered up or down to affect performance between two stopping points. Sorry not very good at explaining. But for instance running from Cardiff to Bridgend, leave the value at 75% and you have to get a move on. Adjust it down to say 50% and the timetable point to point timing becomes much easier to maintain. The adjustment can be made individually for all stopping points.
I keep my own database and records. Like any software events happen and stuff gets reset. I have my own randomizer and just work through them at my own pace with no care for scoring. My records, my data.
That’s the thing. It’s not really a game it is a simulator. We don’t play to win do we? All I seek is a nice smooth ride with AI changing signals for me and directing traffic. All the rest is distraction. Respectfully
As a newbie I had major issues with timetables. These days I only find a few ones that cannot be completed at all. I don't like when it's too tight, for example one on West Somerset Railway. But I consider them challenges. I find these scenario authoring issues. Some routes have internal speeds really off, visible from the ETA calculation. While that makes it slightly difficult to judge how much racing is needed, as long as the actual timetable is correct, ETA will gradually slide and you'll succeed. A similar issue of another breed is a difference between player and internal-AI train performance, such as many old German trains doing 0-max in 1-2 seconds, the Black 5 casually running at 95 mph or the Class 2x-3x-47 weak fields missing from the prediction. In classic situations there is enough time to average out, catch up at track speed. Short stoppers, uphill, and you can't.
I’ve shifted more towards TSW in recent months as I find TSC very frustrating at times, especially when I see an appealing freeware route that I would like to play, only to be bombarded with 30+ add ons that I don’t own. Then if I can be bothered I need to visit all these different websites to find the required content. It’s just too much hassle! TSW is just plug in and play, a lot more simpler. I haven’t abandoned TSC, I just can’t fully enjoyed it right now. Home life, work etc gets in the way.
The downside to TSW is you play what is given to you. AFAIK there are no Quick Drives and you cannot change the locos on trains. If you could only run in TSC the scenarios that came with route or traction it too would be a bit boring.
Do you know how much hassle it is to build a freeware route? I´ve built a 100 kilometre long German route. It´s years of work. When you hear people saying they can´t be bothered with the hassle of downloading them and seeking the requierments, it´s kind of sad.
I can imagine, I appreciate the time people put into making these routes, I really do, I just find it too much of a burden or cost to pick the requirements for the said route. When you’re paying off a mortgage and car payments monthly, you have to watch the pennies.
I also understand both sides. In the end, it really comes down to personal situations and preferences. I’ve explained in another thread that the long list of requirements isn’t meant to annoy players, but is a necessity to create a diverse-looking route with many different assets. Just as there are TSW players who own all the DLC, there is also a group of long-time TSC players who have been around since the beginning and own most content (at least for certain countries). This core base of dedicated players doesn’t mind requirements. In fact, they’re usually the ones who play all the freeware routes and create scenarios for them. Admittedly, at this point in time, it’s a very small and niche group of people. My last route was downloaded 5000 times and I assume there are maybe 50-100 people regulary playing and enjoying it.
The other day I spent 5hrs waiting for techies to come and fix a set of points in front of us, would hate to think how many points that was What tools allow you to edit the career.xml file, I do it manually using notepad++, I use the green ticks to remind me what I have already played, it doesnt really bother me if I fail a scenario.
It's a bit unfair in that you can also play TSC plug and play. It's like complaining that your car can go anywhere, so you'd rather drive a shuttle ship.
To an extent maybe, but you can’t argue that TSW is a lot more accessible and easier. TSC can be a hassle sometimes, unless you’re playing the basic steam content/routes, no mods, no freeware etc. The other day I spend almost 3 hours trying to download all the requirements for a free route, and I was still missing stuff. Not exactly plug n play.
Uninstalled here after spending £94+ super deluxe special version of TSW6. Moved to the dark side completely.
TSW is easier because…….wait for it……there is (almost) no freeware. TSW is basic steam content only, so that’s kind of a wierd complaint to make against TSC. If you want freeware, you take the hassle. At least in TSC you have the choice. After 7 years of TSW there still is no freeware scene at all, which actually speaks volumes about the user friendliness in TSC.
Totally concur. When TSW can offer anything close to this I may consider starting to occasionally using. [EDIT] This route runs all the way from London to Bedford, I don't believe that is even available on TSW Until then I will continue to use and thoroughly enjoy the age old beast that is TSC that still continues to amaze me with what can be achieved with 3rd party additions, and this shot only involves 1x 3rd Party add on supplier (Armstrong Powerhouse).
That’s a take I don’t agree with “you want the freeware, you take the hassle”. There’s plenty of simulation games that offer free content without the need to own 30+ add ons to make it work. Only in TSC. There’s a reason there’s no freeware in TSW, and that’s because route building in UE4 isn’t easy.
That’s not the fault of the creators though. Do you want to build a route with the basic Kuju assets? No. TSC has thousands of DLCs, and once you start building a route, you realize: “Oh, I need this office building, I need this car park, I need this tower.” So creators use 5–10 other payware DLCs out of hundreds to access the assets they need. Steam doesn’t cover everything, so some freeware is also required. Looking at the German scene, most freeware routes use pretty much the same assets. If you have the requirements for one freeware route, you basically have them all. Your first freeware route will seem like a massive hassle, but afterwards it gets easy.
The other thing I love about TSC are the myriad of true to life WTT scenarios that are freely available after being lovingly crafted by the connoisseurs of our great community that take the time and effort to re-create history with accurate date / time timetabled route scenarios accurate down to the level of exact Loco / Coach / Wagon numbers used in the original running of said trains. For me another major factor not available in TSW Also the backdated routes to run SR / GWR / NER / LNER etc. kettles on, that will never see the time of day in TSW. Currently TSW is only focused on the easy to replicate modern heaps of plastic. IMHO TSW for Gaming / TSC for Accurate Simulation
No, that’s just you wanting to be the boss of how others use their creativity in TSC. Sorry to be so blunt. Freeware goes like this: Someone builds what that person has fun building using whatever the builder finds appropriate. Then the user who wants to use that piece of freeware has a choice if the user finds it worth the time and hassle. Just like a musician creates a piece of music, and the listener decides if it’s worth listening to. As for UE4. Yes, how is that not exactly what i said? For building your own stuff, TSC is the userfriendly option.
The reason is that TSW needs to cater for console as well as pc. Developing product for several platforms makes the task more difficult. DTG is keeping a tight reign to sustain the rollout of products across all platforms.
I feel the difference is:- TSW is designed to "Play me straight out of the box and only use what I tell you to" simples. TSC is designed to "Play me straight out of the box and then keep on playing and tweaking me into what you want me to be" I guarantee no two long standing users of TSC will have identical Asset folders, such is the nature of the beast, you can make it as simple or as complicated as you choose, the beauty being after suffering the burden of downloading multiple 3rd party assets for the first time, eventually you can run almost anything without downloading hardly anything because most 3rd party routes / scenarios (of the same ilk / timescale) tend to use a core set of assets that once downloaded can be used by multiple other routes / scenarios.
That is entirely the responsibility of the creators. They made the design decision to use assets from multiple DLCs. They could have made the decision to only use the assets within the core route. Yes, some of the scenery might be less realistic, but the route would be a lot more accessible. There isn't a right decision though, as both approaches have downsides. However, I agree that regarding TSW as superior to TSC because some TSC freeware routes have multiple DLC dependencies is illogical. It's not a valid comparison, as TSW has no freeware routes. The correct comparison is TSW with a TSC Steam installation. Both are load-up and go. Worrying about TSC freeware dependencies is a bit pointless though. TSC is clearly not having the pull it once had and freeware DLC creation is clearly slowing down.
Must admit grabbing what you can now from third party suppliers is not a bad idea as with the lack of interest from DTG on investing and improving TSC will most likely see a decline in 3rd party development. Sad to see but such is the world today. Oh and Back Up, Back Up, Back Up ...... and did I mention BACK UP your Assets Folder
It's le sens de l'histoire, don't know how to say this in English, the way things go : TSW is simply TSC's successor. Such was the latter to MSTS. In fact, TSC is already a cadaver which takes time to die
I am afraid you are totally wrong. MSTS evolved into TSC which is still alive and kicking today. TSW is not the successor to TSC and never will be, it is a totally different experience. I own both and have invested (wasted) a vast amount of money on TSW in the belief that "this was the way forward and the successor to TSC". How wrong was I? They are totally different games / simulations. I enjoy simulating a drive, as a driver, on a train, not running around platforms replacing maps and being awarded points for chasing around my surroundings looking for treasure. I take it you have not experienced the complexity of firing and driving a Precision Locomotive Developments (ex Bossman Games) DLC If you have you will understand where I am coming from. When that level of simulation arrives in TSW I may reconsider my stance. I await with bated breath I repeat TSW is a Train game product ....... TSC is a Train simulation product supported by a strong community of followers and developers and will be around for a good time yet.
That's the point : it already should have been so, or at least in a foreseeable future. Is DTG policy regarding TSW developpement to blame ? ... PS : for the time being, I only play TSC, DLCs the kind of which you mentionned...
Even if it's not, DTG (Or Focus) seems like they want to keep pushing it like it is, including advertising it in TSC whenever they can....
You said “After 7 years of TSW there still is no freeware scene at all”. That’s because it’s not easy to develop a route in UE4. That’s why there’s no freeware.
Absolutely! I'm sure most content creators work as I do. The work I do is for myself, I create what I want as I want it. I get a lot of pleasure from the end result. It seems silly to keep it to myself, so I offer it out to amybody that wants it. If they don't like it (for whatever reason) they know what they can do. John
Yes, that is the point! No one opens up the editor and thinks to themselfs: "I´m going to build a route with low requierments for people who don´t want "hassle". People start a passion project and use everything they need. There are thousands of assets out there... why not make use of them? If people have specific wishes how I should build a route, they can pay me for it. Why should I do that for free?
There is an editor in tsw now. But it’s restrictions are very limiting. Hence, tsc is more userfriendly.
I don't know what route and country you're referring to but... For the country and routes that I'm mostly interested in you will need 3-5 paid Steam add-ons and another 10-14 paid add-ons to get all the rolling stock. Than you indeed need to install 40+ freeware add-ons/assets from various sites. This is a lot of work but once I have that route working and complete adding a second route for the same country is pretty easy as I already have 95% of the add-ons and assets that I need for the second route. Players who are just starting out with TSC are easily overwhelmed as they see a 40+ items requirement list and they "need" all of them. Player who are around longer see that same list and notice they only need a couple items and already have the rest. Need.. you don't always need everything on the list. Yes very much more hassle but personally I check what that required add-on is providing for that route especially when it is a paid add-on/assets pack. More than once it turns out that said add-on is only used for a farmhouse and some fences in the scenery of that route. Than i can choose to live without farmhouse and some fences or replace it with something I do have. Couple years ago I had a discussion about the user friendliness of modding TSC and what it means for the player base. Back then and still today I feel that it would've been beneficial to the community and help the community grow if the modding was more centralized and standardized. Would TSC not be much easier to start with if the modding worked like Skyrim for example. One website that has all/most of the add-ons and assets available. All those add-ons and assets are packaged in a standardized way so a add-on/assets manager can be used to install and manage all add-ons/assets. Sometimes you download an executable, the next time a compressed archive, time after that an .rwp file and then just a loose folder. When you download a compressed archive sometimes the folder structure is setup to extract it in the RailWorks folder, sometimes the file structure is setup to extract it directly in the assets folder and another times the archive is nothing more than a couple random folders and you need to figure out yourself which folder need to be extracted where. I don't blame the creators for using assets from a lot of sources when they are building their route. That creator wants to build the route the best he/she can with the tools he/she has. In my experience people who (successfully) build routes are not persons who just start out with TSC. Those persons most likely build up quite a collection of add-ons and assets over the years so you can you really blame them for using them to create what they want? Personally I don't agree at all with the "TSW is the successor of TSC so TSC can/should die now" sentiment. Most importantly because TSW provides a very different experience than TSC and therefor TSW can't and most likely never will be a true successor of TSC. To me TSW feel like a gamified version of TSC to (probably) please the console crowd. TSC was and is a train simulation game. TSW is a game which happen to have trains in it. Come on, in what world does running around a station searching for hidden treasure make TSW a better train simulation game...?? So no TSW is NOT (and never will be) the successor of TSC and therefor I hope TSC will get support from the creator/modding community many years to come so that players can keep playing and experience the simulation TSC provides that TSW never had the intention to provide.
I agree with your description of what TSW actually is right now. But is it absolutely preventing it from evolving in a good direction ? It's DTG's choice, 3rd party content, users requests (including us voicing here), etc. Don't get me wrong : I don't want TSC to die and "that's it", I want something much better (in every aspects) to replace it (be it an evolution of TSC itself, but does it have the slightest chance of happening?). It's ok to perpetuate shamanic rituals, but I'm longing for a medicine that can health cancer...
