PlayStation What If Tsw Disappears?

Oh I yes. The consumer acts, I’ve totally overlooked these laws. I’m no solicitor which means I’ve been reading up on laws or regulations within the games industry only due to my lack of knowledge.
But you ain’t half right. Yet the basic rule of releasing games doesn’t reflect the same legal principles contained within a consumer act.
However, applying one of these laws must mean as consumers we are covered if it’s seen that any sales by DTG have broken any of these laws or regulations.

There is also a mention the law could be changed soon so no games developed can reach market in a very poor state.
I think this is to stop the endless streams of small start ups pushing a poor game out, taking the money and running.
Thus leaving people with a bad product, really poor stuff I mean. So in the UK it must be a serious problem in the wider games industry for the UK government to be concerned enough to draw up new legislation to protect customers from buying broken games or left with one.

I would also add that if any major company like Sony as an example allowed these methods of selling on their services could mean Sony are allowing companies that do break the law a place to do so.
The deeper one goes on this subject means opening a can of worms.

But with all that said, as a UK citizen with laws to cover any purchases is done so within these laws.
And one would assume any UK consumer can exercise their rights if there the need should arise.
Yet there are laws and regulations for the games industry to conform too.
So this is why I very much doubt that DTG are going about business unlawfully.
I think due to a number of different variables it’s a case of poor timing and something was bound to happen sooner than later.
The games industry sets very low standards of what’s defined as working or responsible working order.
Therefore if DTG is making small errors here and there then any batch is a rushed one to meet the basic standard or requirement laid out.
To us it might seem broken, yet how the law is written for games companies allows buggy games to enter the market due to the very nature of programming as long it meets the basic requirements set out within any laws or regulations.

You could say it’s a bit a grey area and why I do feel the UK government is taking an interest in what’s going on in the wider games industry.
With many groups such as STOP KILLlNG GAMES campaign reaching its petition goal to help save the games industry for matters such as what some are possibly facing with any TSW products.

Rushed games, high prices and very poor quality content or products being rushed to markets in any state as long as the customer keeps spending then business is good so why should these big companies change attitudes if it means them losing out on big bonuses each year.
When it’s does then our UK government will step in to protect customer and place more heavier legislation over how games companies target and sell their products.

Are DTG aware of this and why the Birmingham - Crewe has been pushed back to December, it’s got to be 110 percent.
For that DLC to remain on the market all depends if it meets the criteria of reasonable working order but I don’t know exactly what all the basic criteria is or again the law to accurately determine if DTG is playing unfairly.

So in law terms I cannot clearly say what I mean or define what the law clearly states or defines as the correct terminology or definition for it to be used with or by the letter of the law. Therefore to cover myself from any of my comments to be as factually correct are not in the eyes of the law and so I am not in any position to judge or mis represent the law or assume of any companies mentioned above of are working or implying of any wrong doings.

Basically I think you or I must think twice before going down this route to avoid any harm towards DTG directly or to us if speaking out of legal context.
But as a simple community member then I have no rights to advise against seeking proper legal advice or guidance for you are covered by the consumer rights act 2015, this is so you gain the right legal advice so you know what rights are being violated if pointed out by any professional legal advice centre or committee. Hence you will know your rights or legal position going forward.

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Well said.

Consistency is the key word here. And you’re right.
Consistency is like a soft blanket or reassurance to a customer.
They know with a high level of consistent quality a customer has nothing to fear and so will happily spend money because consistency brings trust and loyalty to a brand.
Why society has such reputational companies like Heinz, Apple, BMW you get the idea.
These companies are at the top because they have shown consistent results of good quality products and customer satisfaction that has built a strong reputation or brand customers come back to when looking for a new purchase.

So yes you’re right.
I’ve said this yesterday that if a company looks after its customers the customer will look after the brand.

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I see this getting thrown around more & more but I have to ask if you really understand what you’re saying?

DTG can’t use an out of the box UE engine because of the nature of TSW, something they’ve said repeatedly despite defending the UE4 choice when it was challenged back in the GWE days. Just moving to UE5 because you assume UE4 is an issue is bizarre & DTG would only turn it into another half breed engine anyway.

UE5 is much more demanding & requires much more optimisation focus, something DTG just don’t do because they are yet to find a way to make money from it.

Any initial performance increases & better stability a UE5 version could offer would likely diminish over time, as each DLC sits in its own ecosystem inside of a very loose core framework. The tech debt would just once again pile up until it cracks the framework.

TSWs issue is that it just isn’t taken care of properly, isn’t built in a suitable manner for the hardware it’s produced on, has very little time & monetary budget for bug fixing & is full of decaying features & assets that rather than updating, are just layered over by different versions.

DTG/Matt P made a specific statement back when TSW was in its infancy about not repeating the same mistakes that TSC endured when it came to having so many layers of coding that it wasn’t fixable, but here we are.

Moving to another engine, which DTG would need to significantly modify to make work for a train simulator, one which is even more demanding than the current version, would at best lead us to the same place we’re at now. The hardware & base engine isn’t the real issue, it’s DTGs production philosophy.

Even if there were solid indicators that another engine & clean slate could fix things, why should DTG be trusted to try it again? I’m certainly not going to bankroll yet another attempt from them to make a train simulator. Even in TSWs life cycle they’ve abandoned several titles, some of which didn’t even make to a year old.

 

This is very interesting indeed.

Why well I never experienced this issue in the whole time of being with TSW 2020.
It first appeared with the new WCML Preston - Carlisle then got worse with the added Class 86 add on loco.
The MK3s are a mess if working in LD and how they seemed to be categorised in formation designer.
It’s all started with that route. I made a few post about the issues on the relevant feedback thread where a weak message from the company responsible said they was looking in the matter. That was about it really.

I still encounter the same issues as you have identified, and there is a quick simple fix.
What I think the issue is that when first loading in the system can’t properly execute or process the data.
Yet on the second try the issue is clear. So if I had the issues you have soon as it loaded in I’d quickly restart and that issue would be gone.

Same in photo mode.
A example of this. Pause the game or leave the camera, get close to the object and try again. It clears up the mess.
Don’t get me wrong tho for I am not saying it’s not a massive deal. It is for I have encountered issues that don’t clear up using the methods above.

Close the game down and turn my PS5 at the wall usually works, but again not all the time.
So yes with the larger routes now the game doesn’t seem to be able to handle all the data to properly run 100 percent each time.
Not with these bigger routes especially.
I don’t fully understand how game are made but it seems there isn’t enough processing power to deal with such complicated programming involved with large scale routes.

Is UE5 the answer to fix the bigger picture.
Reading over all the comments left it would appear so.

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Wow.

Thank you for sharing your experience on the wider subject.
I’ve definitely been learning a lot.

So basically what you are saying is DTG can get things right but it’s simply a case of time and resources spent correctly in the right areas for them to achieve the right level of customer satisfaction.

You’ll have to excuse my ignorance or lack of deeper understanding about what you have raised.
It’s all very interesting to read and I thank you for sharing.

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I’ll try find it but I think you’re right, I agree with your statement.
I can’t say with any confidence if Clickbait is the nature of the YT in question, however I do understand where you’re coming from.
YouTubers are in it for the money so I feel whenever theres nothing positive happening much they may look for more catchy titles or story lines to attract attention.

And my apologies I’ve not heard of Train Planet, yet again tho I full understand what you’re saying.
Another thing to add to this is not only possible mis information being spread to a wider audience but the damage on knock on effect to TSW unfairly.
It’s enough to make me think about setting this thread up because again I agree that TSW seems in a pickle but what is really going on.
What better way to hear from users to find the real issues they’ve been facing over a number of years now.

Maybe the creator of the YTV is only voicing there opinions or concerns and that’s fine, but when it becomes more about making a video just for the sake of it then are companies like TSW an easy target which in turn can influence fans or possible buyers, IF the content is non existent or unfounded to be factually correct.
Most opinions are based on perception, so what better way than to seek truth from more than one person’s perspective.

Thanks for sharing
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Thanks for sharing.

I agree with the basic point on upgrading.
TSW for PS4 if no longer a high seller must be cut to allow DTG to move on with new products or technologies.
IF content is left in state fit for market before cutting off more support or content.

Your analogy makes sense to me perfectly and why IF TSW for PS4 is again no longer a large revenue source for DTG then why would any company have to worry about past products.
Car markers sell cars fit for the market and DTG produce games that should be fit for market at the point of sale or before any support is cut.

I personally don’t hold DTG to ransom over this strong subject to some, but there is a time when that day comes to upgrade.
The times change and nothing will stop that, it’s sad that lower income families might not be able afford newer technologies.
I know what that feels like, yet nothing will stop time marching on nor technology from getting better and better.

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I would be stuck Farming or on Fernbus (Flixbus), besides Fifa & GTA s.

Thinking Fernbus isn't in same league as TSW with regards routes.

 

Maybe, yet is that stuff more difficult and why they haven’t continued with stream traction.

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It was clearly because they were too lazy to fix the core problems and by the time they realised they beeped up it was too late

 

well said.

I’m no tech expert yet even I thought with TSW4 they would have moved on with any advancement in technology.
It don’t take a rocket scientist to understand more complex data means better systems to handle the input.
This again I thought they would have done with the longer more complicated routes released on TSW4.

Would UE5 be the solution, and one where devs can run with the system without creating issues users have now.
And if MR is a test bed for UE5 will that alone be enough to put customers off if knowing what you do.

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I’d agree to this. Do users and DTG understand that main games sold like in the past are becoming less popular with users choosing to opt for subscription or game streaming services.

The games market in general is in decline, even some big companies with massive franchises are now struggling.
I also think about this when using TSW6, it’s old even before release compared to what most games companies have in graphics and user friendly interface. Ie Photo mode and LD, most games have all this functionality as standard, not as a sales gimmick.

TSW is a simulator and with that works differently from games Im comparing it too. Major titles, from EA, Ubisoft, Epic Games.
Yet these companies have large resources that can be used for innovative projects or the next big thing to set them apart from the crowd.
But does DTG and FOCUS Entertainment have anything like the bigger companies. (Actually I’ve have seen some great games released by FOCUS Entertainment).
If things are as they are then it would suggest DTG is behind in many areas one being innovative ideas for survival in such challenging market conditions. Again the next being step in how people buy or use games.

So if purchasing games will be a thing of the past or less popular than newer or cheaper ways to play games, then what is the point on using having a longer business model based on old formulas now because 2 or 3 years down the line everything could have changed.

It’s happened so many times. BETA MAX vs VHS. IOS vs Android. Many many computer companies with MDOS being a main winner in the early of computer technology. Atari then Nintendo who went up against Sega, then Sega with Sony, Sony against Microsoft.
Blu Ray vs HD.
Every single major brand or company has at some time tried to find the next big thing.

And so for any small player to have any decent future they need to be on the boat when it leaves.
If not then, that’s business. Or a game of snooker. Always think 5 or 6 shots head to be always in the right position no matter what happens.
You can’t beat a player when they’re at the table taking the title that once belonged to the person sat in the chair with no power to stop it from it all slipping away.

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The think is very simple.
Either DTG is dormant, or they're putting heart and soul into developing something new (hoping it's not all just about MR).

 

Well they gave up for reason, I know the first stream route or LPC DLC was a right mess.
The amount of times I’d be thrown of track mid route near junctions or derailed by points that were correctly set.

Another possibility for why they gave in is the amount of research that went into making routes that no longer exist.
All the research for the data needed to basically rebuild a 60s route. It all takes time. Time is money, so cheaper to make routes set in today’s era because a simple day out to the stations would do the trick.
Probably the same applies for locos and rolling stock.

Could be a reason for difference in price like some have been pointing out here with the difference price points on add on packs.
Would the era dictate the price. It’s at this point when DTG found out how much time it took them to make and the revenue that DLC brought them is probably why you or when they realised they had as you politely put it beeped up.

Dropped the fire grill, and quietly put it in long term storage.
Or scrapped just like the real deal.

The END OF STEAM on TSW

Do you think the franchise would help gain fans back if they added stream again?. I know US fans would love to see that.
But I guess that’s why players opt for PC and TS/TSC. It’s all there. Yet console, well no need to expand on that

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I would give a qualified “yes”. Just look at the enthusiasm currently doing the rounds in the TSC forum about the new Somerset and Dorset route from Golden Age. Only thing stopping me buying it, is it’s not on Steam and I don’t tend to buy direct from 3P sellers (my choice) also at this stage it’s only Bath Green Park to Templecombe not all the way to Bournemouth West. But I’ve said it before, if DTG wanted another crack at steam then the S&D would be the way to go. Bring in the 9F and the 53xxx 7F locos. We already have the 4F for pilot duties and freight and a future DLC could add locos like the BR Standard Class 4 or 5 classes, the 4P’s or even Standard tank loco and a Jinty. Many of which could back port onto a remastered or revitalised SoS and PFR.

 

Cheers for adding, I do think steam is missing from the franchise for those users interested in that era, many wonder what happened with stream for consoles.

Only DTG know the real reason for backing away from steam routes. Yet there seems to be large number of fans or potential buyers who are looking for more steam routes on consoles. Even if DTG didn’t have the time to recreate new locos or routes, I’ve been banging on about Hornby’s getting on board with DTG so Hornby could at least provide some of the locomotives that could make use of existing routes.
That’s me trying to think of ways DTG could provide many classes of locomotives so players like your good self can finally get their hands on what’s been on their wish list for sometime.

No massive hype or expense on routes, just locos that players can mix and match at a low (Edit) price point depending on the size or complexity of the models/DLC locos.
Applying the logic that’s started this little topic off simple means if routes are time consuming then taking a pun on treating locos as a secondary revenue source could help make DTG turn a small profit while providing for the community and fans with more options at minimal cost with Hornby or a another 3rd party developer who can get the job done.

They could even sell as a season pass. Again it feels like DTG have given up on steam but are there other options available that could at least provide locos for fans if route development isn’t viable in the long run for DTG.

What would you do if you ran the show?. Would you look in the loco options more than routes.
For me if it takes DTG 6mths to develop a steam route yet only 3 months for a modern route for DTG to make double the profits in the time it takes for steam. If that is the real situation then would you consider something else or along the lines of what’s being suggested.

In this thread many have had a good old venting about how they really feel, but now I’m looking at how members like you would go about improving. Therefore steam has popped up and I’m just curious as to what your thoughts are, if steam was something you’d bring back.
How would you implement it all in the context of providing for users while turning decent profits?.

I’m only asking because don’t take this the wrong way but you definitely know a lot more than me about steam, so like I say just curious on how you feel or go about it all from a different perspective and from one with more knowledge than me

There’s always more than one way to skin a Cat.

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