Nürnberg - Ingolstadt (and Feucht) Discussion Threa

If DLC sales are falling then sadly that is probably down to the game now being saturated with very similar content, just no incentive to buy at full price or even at all. I respect that part of this has been a passion project (though didn’t we used to do those for MSTS and TSC then release as freeware?) but that doesn’t stop potential buyers stopping to think, “Well I’ve already got SKW for high speed running and the experience with this route likely to be similar to the brief fast sections on Munich to Augsburg or Koln to Aachen.” ?

Sadly DTG have monetised TSW to the extreme by retaining control of the distribution process and console conversion there is little or no scope but for route developers to go through official channels. I’m not privy to how much of a cut DTG take from 3P sales but suspect similar to Steam in the region of 25 to 30%, so maybe the 3P’s need to start negotiating more aggressively and demand a bigger slice of the pie for their work. If, as we suspect, DTG have wound down in house DLC production that puts the 3P’s in a strong bargaining position. Pay us more or we don’t work, you don’t make any money and you really will be moving from that lush office in Chatham to a portacabin on a bomb site somewhere outside Birmingham.

Then this is another route where, regardless of the desirability, like the diminutive Thames Valley Branches, Dovetail Direct and the likely release of TSW7 are just a few weeks away. Spend £45 between these two routes (would have been more if Tadami hadn’t been canned) or hold on and see if something more interesting is arriving with the big route and train pack.

So while I wish the developers luck with the release, sadly there are quite a few factors working against this one.

 

It is no wonder DTG wanted to close the general discussion forum.

There is constructive criticism then there is what we have seen in the last few posts.

I certainly wish developers including DTG would hit back at some of the ridiculous conspiracy theories certain members engage in.

 

The Talent2 from SKA is way closer to the real life Talent2 used in Nürnberg (4-car, entry height, etc). DRA/DRL and KWG are all only 3-car.
And if they used the KWG one, you could not really drive the services, as the safety systems have issues on that one.

So the Talent2 from Köln-Aachen is the correct choice, unless they could have made a new one, but that would have been too much work, with all the rest going on.

 

If we have to have that one koln aachen DTG could have updated to make more pleasant to drive.

 

I'd take a shorter superior 442 over an awfully unpleasant one any day. its just not a nice train.

 

It may not be a solution for now but once DTG or another 3rd party does another Nürnberg route and add a realistic Sbahn Nürnberg 442 then it should be possible to substitute the new one, which wouldnt be if they use a 3 Car 442.
Same for TSG, where TSG Lukas said they look at the feedback and possible options, so IF they update the 442 post release then they wont need to redo the whole Sbahn timetable.

 

Matt said, very sternly, on a Roadmap Stream earlier in the year that "Third party developers do not need to deliver all current *Core Features*". So you will see groups like JT and AABS delivering as much as possible, whilst other developers do less.

Also I found it astounding that a comment made on the preview livestream ""we didn't improve the 101 because it might make the expert 101 less appealing"" a bizarre statement to make.

 

Just curious, is it just the suspension? I just tried all three variants of the 442 and the only noticeable difference in driving that I could find was that the Leipzig-Dresden version has suspension, while the other two don't. Or am I missing something

Edit: to add, have to say that I find the 423-430 s Bahn trains nicer to drive than the 442 anyway.

 

I think the comment was in regards to avoid making DTG's standard 101 (which still is a separate DLC despite its age) rather than TSG's own expert 101. Not that this makes their comment any less bizarre though.

 

Not exactly what he said. He said it would devalue the original normal 101 from DTG, not the Expert 101.

 

It's funny to read all the negative comments; they should be more constructive. Just think, Italy doesn't have 1km of TSW! Can it be improved? Of course! It takes time, passion, and patience! Even Zusi3 can improve! Thanks Pilot21

 

The sounds are poor, headlights are brighter than the sun, and the paint on the train is very matte looking rather than the regular glossy red. it's just a very TSW2 looking train. I know it's nitpicky, but at the very least, it should have been included. Basically without a particular layer, several stations on the route are useless. A bit like the Watford DC line without owning the Suffragette line.

The route looks amazing, the updates to the ICE3 are brilliant, however, the 101 not being brought up to TSW6 standards is surprising and disappointing.

 

Agree with everything you have said if them things where addressed I would have bought it straight away.

 

To be fair that's even dumber in a lot of respects, it's been out for years and almost certainly gotten 99% of the money DTG's going to get out of it. The old 101 isn't suddenly going to have a second wind, especially nobody's willing to improve the base add-on. If the 101 can't be upgraded due to other resourced being tied up, that's at least understandable. But content existing in other forms has not stopped others from upgrading included stock, that really does come across as a excuse on TSG's part.

 

Agreed, but in any case it is not right to quote someone and change what he actually said.

PS: Not trying to imply that it was done on purpose. Just explaining why I felt the need to post the correction.

 

Just to confirm, we’re talking about the same passion project that was picked up by an established dev house & published by DTG, for the same cost as their standard commercial product line?

What does it represent? It’s a route that quality & feature wise sits right in with the current standard of route building (to be clear this isn’t a negative). Unless you mean it represents the original devs work? Yes I surely would like to celebrate that, however that’s not really the case now since it’s being sold as a TSG product & published by DTG. Those goalposts are very far apart, especially when the asking price is where it’s at & that cost doesn’t even go to A) entirely to the person who built it & B) isn’t going to the people that put the time into the stock that was worked on.

This last part doesn’t even make sense, this route actively falls below the existing feature set, if anything, buying it displays that you’re happy to see less of the current feature set?


I wasn’t planning on replying to the thread much further, as my original point was that the rolling stock chosen was a let down & is likely part of the reason DTG are seeing issues with DLC sales.

As usual though there’s an astounding level of toxic positivity present that warps any sort of comment into an attack, leading to the usual parroting of “close the forums” & hyperbolic claims of conspiracy theories because someone hasn’t been personally informed of something. The irony is that I’d wager most people who like to turn these discussions into a battle for a non-existent morale high ground, don’t even put their money where their mouth is anyway.

Personally I maintain that selling products which use significantly degraded or abandoned assets, for the same price as current quality & standard content, isn’t a product I’m interested in buying. I’d rather that be stated as opposed to falling sales figures that lead to devs & publishers guessing what people didn’t like.

 

Tbh, this is a really concerning business practice/standard. Throughout TSW6, I'd say 3rd Party releases have been more innovative than DTGs. Yet locos that are reused are not allowed to directly compete with DTGs and can't be the new standard because it's not DTG's work.

Despite this, there is no slowdown of recycled content and this will likely not change for TSW7 as DTG are "busy" fixing core issues and subsequently winding down in-house DLCs.

Yet, in the livestream, one the TSG guys basically said the ICE 4 is more complex to build and is lowkey out-of-budget for them to do.

So newer locos or rather highly requested ones are more likely to be added by DTG yet they're barely making any. Very bleak times ahead of us.

 

very narcissistic, constant one-upmanship like behaviour by dtg that really has to stop. it’s time for them to admit and accept that third parties are more ambitious and successful than them instead of digging their own grave by insisting that they’re the best, the absolute best and no one else can do better

 

Is there a keyboard combination to change the brakingmode for the BR403? cwf.green

 

So, another nice and constructive discussion about an upcoming route has turned in to a borefest of blame and unrelated and far fetched criticism. Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion, but for me it's now time to unwatch this thread and log out indefinitely.

 

Where did they say this?

 

it doesn’t have to be direct; their business practices over the last few years have shown it multiple times. releasing rivet products under their name, despite them being generally good nowadays, prioritising their own dlc for updates ahead of third party products (the ripoff gbr 802 received fixes much faster than the aabs and JT wcml routes), the time they screwed over firefly’s medway preview stream because stamford was broken, which apparently constituted the postponement of an unrelated stream.

none of this is actually to do with the nuremberg route, so i’d suggest discussion about that is the priority, but to make a case that dtg aren’t disproportionately focused on their own products which is of an increasingly diminishing abundance, instead of providing equal care to the main dlc provider, which is third parties