Romney Hythe & Dymchurch Railway

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by David Harrison, Mar 7, 2020.

  1. David Harrison

    David Harrison Member

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    13.5 mile-long narrow guage route located in the Romney Marshland in Kent
    Unique in the world
    12 Locomotives (10 steam & 2 diesel)
    15 in (381 mm) gauge
    13 Level Crossings
    6 Stations
    Hythe, Dymchurch, St Mary's Bay (R), New Romney, Romney Sands and Dungeness
     
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  2. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    The way the game works is you get on a train and drive between two points.

    If you were on the RH&DR you would drive the 13.5 miles and that would be it
    You would pass other trains going the other way but those would also be limited.
    There are no freight workings, there is only the limited amount of stock on the line with no chance of a visiting train.

    Unlike a train set it does not give you the opportunity to drive all day with other trains passing.

    Peter
     
  3. budtheweiser

    budtheweiser Active Member

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    to see steam locomotives like locomotives like Green goddess Northern chief Southern maid the bug Hercules Sampson Typhoon Hurricane Winston Churchil Doctor syn Black prince JB snell Captain Howey
     
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  4. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

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    I don't disagree with the points you raise but the same could be said about, for example, the Isle of Wight route or Corris Railway and perhaps any DLC modelling a heritage line. I've got the Isle of Wight and it's a very pleasant time waster when you're in the mood. I think the RH&DR could be the same and well worth having at a reasonable price.

    It has an interesting history as well. It ran troop trains during the war, one soldier with his kit per compartment, and had an armoured train that was credited with shooting down an enemy aircraft. It's thought that the pilot may have massively misjudged the range to the train because it was so small.
     
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  5. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    My dislike of the RH&DR in the game would be it's limited use - you can drive up and down the line but that is

    The Isle of Wight version 7 from UKTS is a lot better than the default RSC version
    IOW.jpg
    Peter
     
  6. francescoferrigno12

    francescoferrigno12 New Member

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    Genuinely hope that this happens, regardless of it being just a point A to B I would spend hours even days playing this route. Been there many times in person and would love to simulate it. I missed out on the old version but if it's made on here I would buy it and all the locos and rolling stock in a hearbeat!
     
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  7. j.burnitt14

    j.burnitt14 New Member

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    Be a fantastic addition to the sim, something different to the usual style of DLC. A completely different way of operation compared to a mainline style route.

    I myself have wanted to see the RHDR in TS20xx for a long time. I recently decided to give making some 15inch content a go. So far I have created a track loft, working turntable and some station assets including platforms etc. The only thing that sets me back is the ability to make a locomotive. I've made several attempts to create a loco but is too complex for my modeling and texturing abilities.

    Jb,
     
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  8. budtheweiser

    budtheweiser Active Member

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    I've been on the RHDR when I've been away to Tenderden
     
  9. budtheweiser

    budtheweiser Active Member

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    Great route and we hope it comes in to the game
     
  10. cooltoyn

    cooltoyn Member

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    I went on the RHDR on Wednesday this week it was really good fun. And I can't see why train simulator 2021 can't do there version of the route cos that would be brilliant. After all Microsoft train simulator had their own version of it l.
     
  11. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    Yes I've been to the Kent & East Sussex many times and watched it grow in length over the years. Mrs Cat went to Tenterden today, had to wait at a level crossing while a train went through. :)
     
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  12. cooltoyn

    cooltoyn Member

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    Microsoft train simulator did their own version of the Romney Hythe and dymchurch railway so why can't train simulator 2020 do there own version this should go ahead.
     
  13. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    I'd really love the line in the game. I would have preferred a TSW2 version, but until steam locomotives are added, the route wouldn't be very fun. A diesel-only RHDR would be sad.
     
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  14. steammaster4449

    steammaster4449 Well-Known Member

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    The RHDR would be an interesting addition to TS Classic, that's for sure. I like it.
     
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  15. budtheweiser

    budtheweiser Active Member

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    Fun Narrow gauge railway in the UK
     
  16. dcr raptor

    dcr raptor Member

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    There are actually 5 diesel locomotives that operate on the RH&DR.
    2 of them are for hauling passenger trains (JB Snell and Captain Howey), but there are also 3 permanent way locomotives used for some shunting duties around New Romney.
    From what I've seen there are also freight trains that haul gravel and spare rails for track maintenance work.
     
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  17. Traction Studios

    Traction Studios Member

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    There seems to be multiple threads requesting this route, but is shall repost what i said here as well, as this seems to be the more active thread. (I discovered this one after, so admins feel free to remove my post on the other thread if you do not like duplication).

    TS has a few limitations in regards to track gauge. The smallest that has been proven to robustly work is 2' 3", That of the Corris Railway. Any smaller and you run into a couple of key issues:

    Cameras
    The In-game cameras clip the meshes of locomotive cabs. This even occurs on standard gauge locos, so if a 15in gauge cab was to appear in TS, half of it would be clipped out and it would look very wrong.

    Physics
    To put simply, TS Physics engine was designed for Standard Gauge and nothing smaller. Corris just gets away with it but you can see the Janky physics at work if you derail. 15 inch would be impossible to get working physics wise.

    HOWEVER
    In contrast to everything I have just said, there is a theoretical work around. This dates back to MSTS Days, and that's to Scale everything by 2x. This means track becomes 2' 5", which is slightly larger than Corris, so all physics and camera clipping issues could be more easily tacked. The downside is there is no way to scale DEM terrain data and Google maps API data, so any routes will be have to built completely custom, without these aids, subsequently taking a lot more time to complete.

    It is doable, but very hard, as every asset will need to be custom, and completely new character and vehicle models will need to be made as the current ones are not scalable.

    I am currently doing detailed investigations into the feasibillity of this project.

    Watch this space.
    Green Goddess Render 1.png
     
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  18. cooltoyn

    cooltoyn Member

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    I would love to see the RHDR in train simulator 2021 i have been on this line so many times and all its level crossing's have been upgraded to barriers in particular the one at Dungeness
     
  19. alexthewoo

    alexthewoo New Member

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    Ever since I tried the janky, unfinished RHDR on MSTS I have always wished for a modern representation on Train simulator 2021. I have personaly replicated the RHDR in Minecraft and was part of the development team for a version on Roblox, but TS2021 is just the next best thing to the real line. I sincerely hope that someone can get round to making this route as it will be an excellent way to spend a few hours
     
  20. UP13

    UP13 Well-Known Member

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    I went on it yesterday and usually take my little ones on it once a year and used to have countless holidays down there when I was a young boy.
    In real life terms I personally think it blows the other preserved railways out of the water. In scale terms it is 39 miles long, engines are timetabled for 60mph running and are allowed to go up to 75mph.
    In absolute terms, it is 13 miles, longer than most, has places of interest along the way (i.e. instead of just going Hythe to Dungeness, you can break up your journey with a visit to the beach at Dymchurch and visit the Model Railway at New Romney). It has a fleet of pacific locomotives, immaculately kept (some railways deliberately grubby their locos to make them look like it's still the 1960s) and in a range of different liveries (as opposed to the same old BR Brunswick and Black). Parallel tracks and New Romney is very much run like an old major steam mainline station with 12 carriage trains (semi) regularly coming in from both directions, topping up with water and even have locomotive changes.

    Now in terms of Train Simulator, I don't think it would be a simple A to B (that argument can be used against most routes and being honest most journeys are more or less A to B with the odd C and D thrown in). However I think it would be difficult to model (gauge wise) and it would need all locomotives to be worth it and I don't think any payware developer would model more than 2 or 3 steam and a diesel (they can't exactly be used elsewhere). The best they could do is possibly make a one size fits all Pacific for 1, 7 and 8 in different liveries (minus smoke deflectors for 1) and a one size fits all diesel for 12 and 14 (which are identical minus livery in real life).
    As much as I would personally love it, no payware developer would go to the trouble of solving the issues for such a niche route and develop rolling stock that can't be used on other routes.
    Unless somebody will invest in creating their only 15in gauge in train sim, I think the best we can do is for somebody to kindly create a standard gauge or even 2'3" gauge version as freeware, and essentially do reskins of Flying Scotsman for 1,2,3,7 and 8 (plus a repainted fowler tender for 2 and 3) plus a reskinned US diesel for 12 and 14.
    I'm not normally one to poo poo on the suggestions posted on here however I really do think this one can't be done (pretty much any standard gauge suggestion could be done by somebody patient/crazy/talented enough as a freeware).
     
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  21. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    An alternative could be to do the same thing as the Christmas routes; have the trains as standard gauge and just have the scenery much larger than other routes. That way the trains could be used on other routes, and non-RHDR trains could be used on the route. It also solves the gauge physics issue mentioned earlier (I wonder if TSW has the same issue)?
     
  22. UP13

    UP13 Well-Known Member

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    Is it worth it though? I don't think they've done a novelty route in years.

    Making giant bedroom furniture is one thing, but giant trees, giant buildings, giant animated passengers... Also I don't think people l want to use RHDR locos on other routes as they'd look weird (tenders would be disproportionately big) and who would run regular locos on the RHDR as they'd also look weird (no room for driver).

    I think this will definitely not happen.
     
  23. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    It worked perfectly well in the Christmas routes.
     
  24. UP13

    UP13 Well-Known Member

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    Creating giant scale bedroom furniture for a small bedroom layout is a different kettle of fish for creating giant scale scenery, passengers etc for a 13 mile route.

    Also I don't think they've done the novelty Christmas/Halloween DLC for many years, which would imply it wasn't that profitable.

    I think people don't quite get the sheer scale of what is required to make a RHDR route work and how a return of investment would be near impossible...
     
  25. Ardaeshir

    Ardaeshir Well-Known Member

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    True, although that applies to a lot of existing and popular DLC routes: West Somerset, Rviera, all the Welsh routes.
    Though one could argue that you can get more visiting engines on the WSR and you can easily mix-and-match other British normal guage in fantasy and what-if scenarios.

    Again, I'm not strongly either for or against having RH&DR in the game, just weighing the pros and cons.

    Personally, I would like to see more narrow gauge, but I think I would prefer to see some of the Welsh steam lines in their working days.
    Heck, I wouldn't mind an "1930s extension" of Corris to feature the full 12 mile lenghts and stick from the 1930s.
     
  26. UP13

    UP13 Well-Known Member

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    I've never tried creating a route before, so forgive me for my obvious lack of talent, but I did try a very basic proof of concept with a simple recreation of Hythe using the Euro Loco & Assets Pack.

    Screenshot_[UP13] RHDR_51.38721-1.40311_12-01-41.jpg Screenshot_[UP13] RHDR_51.38729-1.40261_12-07-07.jpg Screenshot_[UP13] RHDR_51.38753-1.40395_12-02-02.jpg Screenshot_[UP13] RHDR_51.38834-1.40781_12-04-53.jpg

    Ignoring my utter lack of ability or knowledge in the route editor, everything feels way to stretch (assuming you want to replicate the 12+ carriage rakes of the real RHDR plus a standard gauge crossover to the runaround line in the station makes the carriages feel too far away from the booking hall.
     
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  27. UP13

    UP13 Well-Known Member

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  28. alexthewoo

    alexthewoo New Member

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    I think narrow Gauge and miniature routes are totally doable and can be successful. Everyone uses the Corris as an example but I don't think that's fair, The physics are quite bad and it is a very short route. I suggest looking at the Ffestiniog or Talyllyn railway. The Ffestiniog and WHR is over 40 miles long and is 2 foot gauge. The route has proven very successful and in my opinion is one of the most enjoyable routes on train simulator and not just a small novelty that everyone will forget. The Talyllyn railway is the same gauge as the Corris with vastly better physics. This route only requires the EU locos and assets pack and is incredibly atmospheric and fun.

    I understand that Train simulator's physics are primarily aimed towards standard gauge routes (as are the audience) but there is a large community of steam enthusiasts who would kill for a route such as this. Last year a small group of people and I created a game of the rhdr on Roblox. In its heyday the game was quite popular, with up to 94 000 visits! Roblox is primarily a kids game, imagine if the rhdr was put on a platform built for train enthusiasts, it would be incredible! never gets old.png Samson .png RobloxScreenShot20210510_193257352.png Sexy Par 3 5.png
    It Is Possible!
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2021
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  29. UP13

    UP13 Well-Known Member

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    Just because it be done in one game doesn't mean the other.

    The workshop route of the RHDR has shown that you can do it with some imagination but it is very difficult to get it spot on. For example the scaled up distances between tracks in the yards looks a bit off.

    As I said earlier it would be uneconomic for a payware developer to do it.

    My suggestion is that if people are that desperate that they subscribe to the workshop route and help give constructive feedback to the developers to help improve it.
     
  30. UP13

    UP13 Well-Known Member

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    The guy who made the workshop route has apparently given up now, so I've decided to learn more about route building.

    Instead of trying to replicate the minature aspect of it (like the original route) I've just decided to make it standard gauge and just loosely based on the RHDR. I've laid out the whole track, and tried signalling it.

    I've just finished doing the scenery around Hythe (I'm only doing scenery that can be seen from the cab). Ignoring the rolling stock in these photos, I've decided to make this entire route just from Euro Loco Assets Pack so it can be more accessible if I ever get it on Workshop.

    Screenshot_[UP13] RHDR_-0.23038--0.14016_12-00-19.jpg Screenshot_[UP13] RHDR_-0.23103--0.13834_12-00-36.jpg Screenshot_[UP13] RHDR_-0.23186--0.13780_12-00-58.jpg
     
  31. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    No offence, but it's at the expense of looking awful. It needs more modern asset packs to be a playable experience - remember that the EU Loco And Asset Pack was released in 2007. No matter how good your route building, using 14-year-old assets will always make a route look bad.
     
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  32. UP13

    UP13 Well-Known Member

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    Being honest this is the first time I've done any route building so trying to keep it simple as I learn as I go. I thought just for this I'd keep required DLC to an absolute minimum.

    I'll definitely use more modern assets once I gain more experience.
     
  33. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    The trouble is that by the time you're ready to use them, you've done so much with the old assets it's too much work to replace them with new ones.

    I have some suggestions for more modern packs to use for assets:
    • West Somerset Railway (heritage railway assets will work perfectly with the RHDR)
    • Netherfield (some lovely old (time) assets which could be useful)
    • Riviera Line in the Fifties (ditto)
    • London Transport Heritage Collection (has some really nice coastal and NSE assets and track)
    • Chatham Main (and Medway Valley) Lines (modern south east English assets for the towns)
    • JustTrains Common Library (pushes the definition of modern but does have some very nice assets)
     
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  34. UP13

    UP13 Well-Known Member

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    Noted.
     
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  35. alexthewoo

    alexthewoo New Member

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    Hi, I looked on your website and it says you have a few "secret projects" in the works, I assume this is one of them, how's it going?
     
  36. pogboyw21

    pogboyw21 New Member

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    I think that if the RHDR is introduced into Train Simulator it could be very good, even if a scale is wrong, I would still buy it just to drive the different locos on a world famous railway.
     
  37. alexthewoo

    alexthewoo New Member

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    Rolobx Train sim.jpg The Roblox RH&DR
     
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