Services With Adverse Signals

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by bescot, Nov 30, 2020.

  1. bescot

    bescot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2016
    Messages:
    621
    Likes Received:
    1,095
    Much has been said about TSW needing randomised events and delays, but I wonder if we could compile a list of services which do have something more interesting than A-B with green signals. Germany or UK, I'd be interested in any recommended services. Many thanks, Steve
     
    • Like Like x 14
  2. stijn.claessens

    stijn.claessens Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2020
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    284
    Well to be fair, most passenger services would be a full green run if everything runs on time in real life.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. Alexandra

    Alexandra Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2017
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    249
    If you feel you are missing out on red lights, you should enjoy German freight. I've spent most of my time in TSW2 driving German passenger services and only recently have begun trying some German freight services.
    I've seen so many red lights on freight runs that you'd think it was Christmas. From being stuck in the yard waiting for clearance, to multiple red lights during the trip, there plenty to keep an engine driver alert and paying attention. Unlike S-Bahn and Regio services, when you're pulling 4,000 metric tons of coal during a blizzard, stopping for an unexpected red light and then starting up again make the trip anything but boring.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
    • Like Like x 8
    • Helpful Helpful x 2
  4. BinaryRun

    BinaryRun Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2020
    Messages:
    149
    Likes Received:
    95
    For an extra challenge, do it in the snow! :cool:
     
  5. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    2,956
    Likes Received:
    3,934
    On Bakerloo Line, the 1324 from Queen's Park has you closely follow another train, leading to some yellows and reds in the tunnels (provided you're prepared to accelerate as the front of the train passes the speed board, not the back as the game tells you to)
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  6. bescot

    bescot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2016
    Messages:
    621
    Likes Received:
    1,095
    Thanks all, any particular DB routes? Keep them coming.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,102
    Likes Received:
    2,124
    Exactly what I am looking for!

    My memory of driving freight in TSW is mostly green runs despite picking times I thought would be busy with AI passenger service.

    Do you suggestions about routes and times I should try?

    TSW and TSW2 have hooked me on German routes and I have most of the DLC available to populate the routes. I recently bought HMA and the 363, but have not yet spent any time running them. I am looking forward to dealing with the traffic the 363 encounters.
     
  8. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2020
    Messages:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    2,758
    I remember having alot of red signals with freight trains on main Spessart Bahn. Be careful though, the freight trains there are very heavy and the game allows you to go faster than they would irl. Sometimes I was unable to stop before a red light even with full breaks because I was going above 100 kmh, usually German freight trains are limited to 120 kmh and with the load you carry, you would have to use the Pzb that limits you to 100kmh for the exact reason of stopping in time.

    On another note, yesterday I played UP1 on Peninsula Corridor, which was very fun. You start south, will run into a passenger train in front of you so you have to be on edge with the signals. Then halfway you stop to decouple some wagons and continue the rest of the way up north to SF. Again you will sooner or later catch up to the passenger train infront of you.
    I really liked that service, recommend it!
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  9. Articuno

    Articuno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    Messages:
    181
    Likes Received:
    357
    Many of the red lights may be dependent on layers you own, for example I have driven an eastbound car freight train from Augsburg to Munich on HMA and had to wait around 5 mins for an ICE train to pass at one point. I can remember many services I have driven on this route where I have encountered red lights in fact, but it is likely to be dependent on how many layers you have (I own all the german routes for reference). I also tend to encounter many situations on Ruhr-Sieg Nord where I'm driving a freight train and am following a passenger train which means I encounter many red and yellow signals (not dependent on layers)
     
    • Like Like x 3
  10. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    2,138
    I think single track lines would be very interesting, where trains can only meet at stations (e.g. Lübeck - Kiel comes to my mind). There would be more interactions with oncoming trains (and red signals), and also the possibility for some German diesel :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
    • Like Like x 5
  11. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    On MSB with all layers you can get red signals pretty easily.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  12. Jezame

    Jezame Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2018
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    76
    I seem to remember on some of the freight services on TVL coming across adverse signals, but I cannot remember exactly which ones. I generally do prefer playing them German routes especially MSB as they feel a bit more interactive which the signals and having speed changes and yellows and the PZB to deal with which in a heavy freight train become slightly more challenging.

    I normally turn off the next signal aspect and distance to it on the HUD just to be more on my toes, but I find that running GWR or NTP I would love to encounter an adverse signal, as I don’t think I have yet other than at the destination.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    1,415
    Likes Received:
    3,746
    Taking empties to the Shaw mine from Cumberland yards on Sand Patch Grade - have to wait in traffic entering the yard, then get have to wait on traffic to clear the Eastbound so you can cut over and backdown to the mine.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2019
    Messages:
    1,245
    Likes Received:
    1,270
    Wood shunting with 363 has you stop and wait for the mainline to be free for crossing
     
    • Like Like x 3
  15. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    3,955
    On RT there are some interesting services when you run behind another train and chase some yellows under the Leipzig tunnel section.
    Should be the ones starting at Leipzig-Connetwitz
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,180
    Likes Received:
    2,360
    In recent memory on SKA when running the S-Bahn services towards Koln, you can get caught chasing yellows behind other S-Bahn services and held at stations on reds
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  17. TS_trainspotter

    TS_trainspotter Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2019
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    109
    On RRO, 16.15 both from Hagen and Wuppertal, you are sent on the wrong track while exiting the starting stations :)
     
    • Like Like x 6
  18. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,180
    Likes Received:
    2,360
    That's a good shout. I actually made a thread about it back when I was getting PZB penalised for not acknowledging the 'wrong track' trapenzoid signage coming out of Wuppertal. A perfect example of 'adverse signals' + the fact this particular sign is not documented in the manual

    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/rro-issue-with-service.19529/
     
    • Like Like x 3
  19. Alexandra

    Alexandra Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2017
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    249
    • Like Like x 2
  20. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,102
    Likes Received:
    2,124
    Ran a westbound freight on MSB tonight; all greens with no reds to make it Christmas merry.

    What MSB services will keep my 500 hz magnet skills tuned up?

    I have also run an HKA freight or two with similar results. Any suggestions there?
     
  21. Nidhish Inumala

    Nidhish Inumala Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2020
    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    108
    ICE and Rain makes you run behind a Talent 2
     
    • Like Like x 1
  22. TS_trainspotter

    TS_trainspotter Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2019
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    109
    Every Koln-bound ICE is like that, before Horrem you have to brake since there is an RE9 train stopped there and it has to get in front of the ICE, and then you have to mantain 160 km/h until Koln nstead of 250 because of that RE in front of you. If you're close enough to the other train you can also get completely stopped before Ehrenfeld since the regional stops there.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  23. bescot

    bescot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2016
    Messages:
    621
    Likes Received:
    1,095
    Thanks for the suggestions. I've gone back to RSN, some really nice freight services there - JustWentSouth if you have the RSN route try the coal or trip diagrams, you tend to be pathed behind a RB train. I used the 143 on the trip diagrams (drop off some wagon and pick more up enroute and the 155 for an utterly immersive drive in the snow. Hats off to DTG - we complain a lot, but some things really work well :)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  24. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2020
    Messages:
    382
    Likes Received:
    379
    There should be random train delays for the AI departures.
     
  25. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    Whilst I agree with you there is a consideration in that people who start a 60 minute scenario might expect that it will take 60 minutes to complete, if there is a random 10 minute delay then the scenario won't be completed in 60...
    If there was an option to allow for random elements up to certain boundaries then this would negate this, but would still mean that a 25 minute run might take 25 minutes, or it could take an hour if something messed up ahead.
    Obviously in real life you could get hours of delay by a derail or breakdown, but I doubt anyone wants to be sat on GWE fast line for three hours because a HST has broken down in the block in front of them
     
    • Like Like x 1
  26. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2020
    Messages:
    382
    Likes Received:
    379
    Trains should be programmed so that they don't be alway exact on time. So one would be late couple of minutes some early and some would be exact on time. But train which are exact on time would be rare in reality.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
  27. Alexandra

    Alexandra Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2017
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    249
    I don't understand what randomizing the time of AI trains is in aid of.
    I haven't the patience to count the number of services I've driven, but it's a lot. So . . . like most of us I've seen lots AI trains. Lots and lots of them . . . but did I notice whether any of the AI trains were on time or not? Nope. They just show up. For all I know, they are already appearing at random times.
    So what is the point of programming random events into the AI train schedules?
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
  28. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2020
    Messages:
    382
    Likes Received:
    379
    It mean that it would randomly delay your train also.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  29. krustynuggets

    krustynuggets Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2020
    Messages:
    589
    Likes Received:
    957
    What i would like to possibly happen and i doubt it ever will, is just more variety in scenarios, if you make more depth in the scenarios on offer and made you travel to all corners of the available track, alot of people would probably be quite happy with timetable mode as it is, at the moment scenarios are basically timetable mode, and scenarios should be proper intense keep your brain and eyes on at all times events, not just point A to point B services in my totally honest opinion.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  30. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,102
    Likes Received:
    2,124
    Thanks for the recommendation! I have enjoyed rediscovering RSN with the 363.

    I will check those out tonight; by chance, do you have specific timetable numbers so I get the right ones?

    And, finally, I agree with your last statement. So many awesome things that work well in TSW, but you would never know it to read some of the posts here.
     
  31. Jezame

    Jezame Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2018
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    76
    It is a difficult one, in a suggestion thread I argued for random disruptions or delays, but people did come back with some excellent feedback which has made me rethink this. A lot of People do want to drive a set service and do not have time for delays especially artificially manufactured ones, also people are sceptical of changing anything as it might cause extra bugs and how can it be tested etc... All really good points!

    I really like the Service mode in TSW 2 and it is one of the standout features for me, as I can just load up the game, fancy doing something and then pick something and off I go, and there is a world going on around me, so if I choose to I can complete my route and hop on to another service, or do the return journey. The problem is that being a realistic smooth running time table means you are mostly going to see green signals if you run it correctly and there is to be probably realistically some inherent boredom in running a service.

    The scenario editor is still in its infancy currently, and this may in the future be the solution. I would be great if at some point in the future you could pop down your train, then have a template of other AI trains that could be popped in which would make the route artificially busy. At the moment the way it works is very awkward.

    Until then though threads like these are great points for picking up tips on where you might get service mode routes that allow you to encounter adverse signals!
     
    • Like Like x 5
  32. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,102
    Likes Received:
    2,124
    I have not been able to figure out how to pick a timetable service, drive it to the end, and then get onto another one in the same session. When I complete the journey, the game closes me out. Do you have to get out just before it ends and abandon it? And then walk to another service?
     
  33. Articuno

    Articuno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    Messages:
    181
    Likes Received:
    357
    The menu comes up with some options and you have to click the "return to free roam" option
     
    • Like Like x 2
  34. Jezame

    Jezame Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2018
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    76
    JustWentSouth exactly as Articuno mentioned above! There are some timetable services that are split into chunks, so you have to "return to free roam" to do the next part. So for instance on NTP one of the freight services has you collect wagons and then run them up to the destination. When you collect the wagons it comes up with the completion screen, however if you then select "return to free roam" it then informs you of the next part of the journey that is required.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  35. Quentin

    Quentin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    438
    Likes Received:
    426
    I think the menu options Articuno mentions only appear if you've disabled the 'autojourney' option.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  36. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    3,955
    Keep in mind I'm new to the german freights as well but so far I found:

    On HRR I think almost all freights get a red light near Essen, on MSB the few freight runs I did were all clear runs as well (keep in mind I only use PZB U in MSB so I might not catch up to some trains which will hold me back), on RRO it's interesting mostly around Wuppertal but usually nothing happens near Hagen or enroute. RSN is IMO the best route for freight, even if you use U like me you still have to keep an eye on speed limits as they are almost all below 100 km/h and they tend to be quite interesting signalling-wise. Very sadly I rarely play RSN because it runs at like 18 FPS on Xbox One and having constant bad weather to limit the draw range gets annoying after a while.

    About PZB I've only used M for the light RRO freights hopefully it's realistic
     
    • Like Like x 2
  37. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,102
    Likes Received:
    2,124
    I had a seriously yellow and red colorful run with plenty of PZB action on RSN: I ran service 80209 with the DB 182 and had to keep up with all the PZB restrictions for Mode M. The key, as mentioned by 7orenz in post number 32 in the "About the Signaller" thread, is to not get ahead of the 11:15 regional leaving Hagen.

    I found that running just under the speed limit and at least 5kph below PZB limits got me to the key signal just as the regional was passing. It was great to see the 363 actively shunting along the way and I was able to end the service, continue free roam and then watch my coal drag depart without me. Awesome! Thanks for the help, bescot, Jezame, fredericodelberto2001, and Articuno.

    RSN 90209.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
    • Like Like x 3
  38. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    You're talking about the AI moving around you (ie that you go past, usually in the other direction), we're talking about the trains in front of you, so if one of them becomes delayed then YOU get delayed, hence the adverse signals for you rather than them all being green
    As an example I've just looked up service 1P82 Reading to Paddington (using realtimetrains.co.uk)
    Monday and Tuesday this week it ran to time, leaving Reading on time at 08:31 and getting to Paddington at 09:10:30 both days (1 min late)
    Wednesday it left on time and ran to time until Slough then progressive delay until Hayes (5 mins late) and onto Acton (10 mins late) meaning it didn't get into PAD until 09:20

    For some that point of difference means you can run the same services time and again without it becoming humdrum
     
    • Like Like x 3
  39. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2019
    Messages:
    2,454
    Likes Received:
    7,474
    The Special train on Peninsula Corridor (I think in both directions) can get interesting if you run full throttle as you catch up to a stopping service and get a lot of red light action.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  40. Alexandra

    Alexandra Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2017
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    249
    Interesting. Most of the time I drive in NRW and have rarely repeated a service (Incidentally those DLCs together offer almost 800 services). Since I see a lot of reds this hadn't occurred to me as a problem. So, thanks for the explanation -- je vais mourir moins bête :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
  41. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    Welcome.
     
  42. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2020
    Messages:
    521
    Likes Received:
    698
    Freight on GWE you will hit reds eventually every time, as you follow the stopping service lines. So if you keep to the "line speed" you come up against the reds soon enough. I havent yet manged to have a clean run Pad-Red without encountering red!
     
  43. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    The point there would be if you run the same service and run exactly the same every time you will come up against the same reds in the same location every time. If there was a delayed service in front of you then you would get different adverse signals (which may well mean even more reds)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  44. Jezame

    Jezame Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2018
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    76
    I played the following service mode route on TVL with a double headed class 37: 6E10 Dalzell - Lackenby @ 10:15. You start next to a red signal and have to wait for a passenger service to go ahead. You then end up following them and get a lot of yellow signals and potentially red.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  45. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    2,956
    Likes Received:
    3,934
    Not sure if it's been mentioned, but on Main Spessart Bahn, freight service DB86110 (leaving Aschaffenburg at 1020) gets caught behind a banking service on the Spessartrampe (the banking service itself is also caught behind a passenger service at the station at the top of the rampe). I did it with the BR155 in a blizzard and it was a very nice challenge. I imagine if you play it a bit more "fast and loose" than I did, you may get more signals, but even doing it relatively briskly with a cautious start, I got yellows and reds. 20210111174301_1.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 3
  46. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    11,729
    Likes Received:
    17,939
    For whatever reason, all German freight services start with the PzB mode set to M, even though the long heavy ones clearly should be U.

    NB: The actual RW calculation of whether a consist belongs under M or U is a complex number-crunching exercise, which involves tables and multipliers and collecting data from every single unit in the train. But it would be nice at least to have a quickie rule of thumb suitable for game players as opposed to real-life railway engineers. Something like, "If it's more than X tons or Y many cars, use mode U."
     
    • Like Like x 2
  47. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    11,729
    Likes Received:
    17,939
    S-Bahn on SKA? AFAIK, the only locals are RB's
     
  48. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    2,956
    Likes Received:
    3,934
    I think Matt's said a general rule of thumb is things like containers use mode M, everything else use U. Thing is, in the BR155 I tried switching to PZB U and the 55 on the dash didn't light up, so I dunno if it actually went to U or if I needed PZB to be off to change it, or if it's just a bug.
     
  49. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    2,956
    Likes Received:
    3,934
    If you own Rhine Ruhr Osten you get S-Bahn services (operated by BR422s) on SKA.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  50. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,102
    Likes Received:
    2,124
    In my experience, when you change PZB modes, you need to turn PZB off and then back on for the change to be accepted.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Helpful Helpful x 1

Share This Page