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Services With Adverse Signals

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by bescot, Nov 30, 2020.

  1. bescot

    bescot Member

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    Much has been said about TSW needing randomised events and delays, but I wonder if we could compile a list of services which do have something more interesting than A-B with green signals. Germany or UK, I'd be interested in any recommended services. Many thanks, Steve
     
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  2. stijn.claessens

    stijn.claessens Member

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    Well to be fair, most passenger services would be a full green run if everything runs on time in real life.
     
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  3. Alexandra

    Alexandra Active Member

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    If you feel you are missing out on red lights, you should enjoy German freight. I've spent most of my time in TSW2 driving German passenger services and only recently have begun trying some German freight services.
    I've seen so many red lights on freight runs that you'd think it was Christmas. From being stuck in the yard waiting for clearance, to multiple red lights during the trip, there plenty to keep an engine driver alert and paying attention. Unlike S-Bahn and Regio services, when you're pulling 4,000 metric tons of coal during a blizzard, stopping for an unexpected red light and then starting up again make the trip anything but boring.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
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  4. BinaryRun

    BinaryRun Active Member

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    For an extra challenge, do it in the snow! :cool:
     
  5. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    On Bakerloo Line, the 1324 from Queen's Park has you closely follow another train, leading to some yellows and reds in the tunnels (provided you're prepared to accelerate as the front of the train passes the speed board, not the back as the game tells you to)
     
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  6. bescot

    bescot Member

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    Thanks all, any particular DB routes? Keep them coming.
     
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  7. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    Exactly what I am looking for!

    My memory of driving freight in TSW is mostly green runs despite picking times I thought would be busy with AI passenger service.

    Do you suggestions about routes and times I should try?

    TSW and TSW2 have hooked me on German routes and I have most of the DLC available to populate the routes. I recently bought HMA and the 363, but have not yet spent any time running them. I am looking forward to dealing with the traffic the 363 encounters.
     
  8. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    I remember having alot of red signals with freight trains on main Spessart Bahn. Be careful though, the freight trains there are very heavy and the game allows you to go faster than they would irl. Sometimes I was unable to stop before a red light even with full breaks because I was going above 100 kmh, usually German freight trains are limited to 120 kmh and with the load you carry, you would have to use the Pzb that limits you to 100kmh for the exact reason of stopping in time.

    On another note, yesterday I played UP1 on Peninsula Corridor, which was very fun. You start south, will run into a passenger train in front of you so you have to be on edge with the signals. Then halfway you stop to decouple some wagons and continue the rest of the way up north to SF. Again you will sooner or later catch up to the passenger train infront of you.
    I really liked that service, recommend it!
     
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  9. Articuno

    Articuno Well-Known Member

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    Many of the red lights may be dependent on layers you own, for example I have driven an eastbound car freight train from Augsburg to Munich on HMA and had to wait around 5 mins for an ICE train to pass at one point. I can remember many services I have driven on this route where I have encountered red lights in fact, but it is likely to be dependent on how many layers you have (I own all the german routes for reference). I also tend to encounter many situations on Ruhr-Sieg Nord where I'm driving a freight train and am following a passenger train which means I encounter many red and yellow signals (not dependent on layers)
     
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  10. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    I think single track lines would be very interesting, where trains can only meet at stations (e.g. Lübeck - Kiel comes to my mind). There would be more interactions with oncoming trains (and red signals), and also the possibility for some German diesel :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
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  11. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Member

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    On MSB with all layers you can get red signals pretty easily.
     
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  12. Jezame

    Jezame Member

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    I seem to remember on some of the freight services on TVL coming across adverse signals, but I cannot remember exactly which ones. I generally do prefer playing them German routes especially MSB as they feel a bit more interactive which the signals and having speed changes and yellows and the PZB to deal with which in a heavy freight train become slightly more challenging.

    I normally turn off the next signal aspect and distance to it on the HUD just to be more on my toes, but I find that running GWR or NTP I would love to encounter an adverse signal, as I don’t think I have yet other than at the destination.
     
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  13. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Taking empties to the Shaw mine from Cumberland yards on Sand Patch Grade - have to wait in traffic entering the yard, then get have to wait on traffic to clear the Eastbound so you can cut over and backdown to the mine.
     
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  14. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    Wood shunting with 363 has you stop and wait for the mainline to be free for crossing
     
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  15. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    On RT there are some interesting services when you run behind another train and chase some yellows under the Leipzig tunnel section.
    Should be the ones starting at Leipzig-Connetwitz
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
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  16. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    In recent memory on SKA when running the S-Bahn services towards Koln, you can get caught chasing yellows behind other S-Bahn services and held at stations on reds
     
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  17. TS_trainspotter

    TS_trainspotter Active Member

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    On RRO, 16.15 both from Hagen and Wuppertal, you are sent on the wrong track while exiting the starting stations :)
     
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  18. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    That's a good shout. I actually made a thread about it back when I was getting PZB penalised for not acknowledging the 'wrong track' trapenzoid signage coming out of Wuppertal. A perfect example of 'adverse signals' + the fact this particular sign is not documented in the manual

    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/rro-issue-with-service.19529/
     
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  19. Alexandra

    Alexandra Active Member

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  20. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    Ran a westbound freight on MSB tonight; all greens with no reds to make it Christmas merry.

    What MSB services will keep my 500 hz magnet skills tuned up?

    I have also run an HKA freight or two with similar results. Any suggestions there?
     
  21. Nidhish Inumala

    Nidhish Inumala Active Member

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    ICE and Rain makes you run behind a Talent 2
     
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  22. TS_trainspotter

    TS_trainspotter Active Member

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    Every Koln-bound ICE is like that, before Horrem you have to brake since there is an RE9 train stopped there and it has to get in front of the ICE, and then you have to mantain 160 km/h until Koln nstead of 250 because of that RE in front of you. If you're close enough to the other train you can also get completely stopped before Ehrenfeld since the regional stops there.
     
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  23. bescot

    bescot Member

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    Thanks for the suggestions. I've gone back to RSN, some really nice freight services there - JustWentSouth if you have the RSN route try the coal or trip diagrams, you tend to be pathed behind a RB train. I used the 143 on the trip diagrams (drop off some wagon and pick more up enroute and the 155 for an utterly immersive drive in the snow. Hats off to DTG - we complain a lot, but some things really work well :)
     
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  24. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

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    There should be random train delays for the AI departures.
     
  25. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Whilst I agree with you there is a consideration in that people who start a 60 minute scenario might expect that it will take 60 minutes to complete, if there is a random 10 minute delay then the scenario won't be completed in 60...
    If there was an option to allow for random elements up to certain boundaries then this would negate this, but would still mean that a 25 minute run might take 25 minutes, or it could take an hour if something messed up ahead.
    Obviously in real life you could get hours of delay by a derail or breakdown, but I doubt anyone wants to be sat on GWE fast line for three hours because a HST has broken down in the block in front of them
     
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  26. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

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    Trains should be programmed so that they don't be alway exact on time. So one would be late couple of minutes some early and some would be exact on time. But train which are exact on time would be rare in reality.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
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  27. Alexandra

    Alexandra Active Member

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    I don't understand what randomizing the time of AI trains is in aid of.
    I haven't the patience to count the number of services I've driven, but it's a lot. So . . . like most of us I've seen lots AI trains. Lots and lots of them . . . but did I notice whether any of the AI trains were on time or not? Nope. They just show up. For all I know, they are already appearing at random times.
    So what is the point of programming random events into the AI train schedules?
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
  28. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

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    It mean that it would randomly delay your train also.
     
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  29. krustynuggets

    krustynuggets Well-Known Member

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    What i would like to possibly happen and i doubt it ever will, is just more variety in scenarios, if you make more depth in the scenarios on offer and made you travel to all corners of the available track, alot of people would probably be quite happy with timetable mode as it is, at the moment scenarios are basically timetable mode, and scenarios should be proper intense keep your brain and eyes on at all times events, not just point A to point B services in my totally honest opinion.
     
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  30. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the recommendation! I have enjoyed rediscovering RSN with the 363.

    I will check those out tonight; by chance, do you have specific timetable numbers so I get the right ones?

    And, finally, I agree with your last statement. So many awesome things that work well in TSW, but you would never know it to read some of the posts here.
     
  31. Jezame

    Jezame Member

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    It is a difficult one, in a suggestion thread I argued for random disruptions or delays, but people did come back with some excellent feedback which has made me rethink this. A lot of People do want to drive a set service and do not have time for delays especially artificially manufactured ones, also people are sceptical of changing anything as it might cause extra bugs and how can it be tested etc... All really good points!

    I really like the Service mode in TSW 2 and it is one of the standout features for me, as I can just load up the game, fancy doing something and then pick something and off I go, and there is a world going on around me, so if I choose to I can complete my route and hop on to another service, or do the return journey. The problem is that being a realistic smooth running time table means you are mostly going to see green signals if you run it correctly and there is to be probably realistically some inherent boredom in running a service.

    The scenario editor is still in its infancy currently, and this may in the future be the solution. I would be great if at some point in the future you could pop down your train, then have a template of other AI trains that could be popped in which would make the route artificially busy. At the moment the way it works is very awkward.

    Until then though threads like these are great points for picking up tips on where you might get service mode routes that allow you to encounter adverse signals!
     
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  32. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    I have not been able to figure out how to pick a timetable service, drive it to the end, and then get onto another one in the same session. When I complete the journey, the game closes me out. Do you have to get out just before it ends and abandon it? And then walk to another service?
     
  33. Articuno

    Articuno Well-Known Member

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    The menu comes up with some options and you have to click the "return to free roam" option
     
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  34. Jezame

    Jezame Member

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    JustWentSouth exactly as Articuno mentioned above! There are some timetable services that are split into chunks, so you have to "return to free roam" to do the next part. So for instance on NTP one of the freight services has you collect wagons and then run them up to the destination. When you collect the wagons it comes up with the completion screen, however if you then select "return to free roam" it then informs you of the next part of the journey that is required.
     
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  35. Quentin

    Quentin Active Member

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    I think the menu options Articuno mentions only appear if you've disabled the 'autojourney' option.
     
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  36. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Keep in mind I'm new to the german freights as well but so far I found:

    On HRR I think almost all freights get a red light near Essen, on MSB the few freight runs I did were all clear runs as well (keep in mind I only use PZB U in MSB so I might not catch up to some trains which will hold me back), on RRO it's interesting mostly around Wuppertal but usually nothing happens near Hagen or enroute. RSN is IMO the best route for freight, even if you use U like me you still have to keep an eye on speed limits as they are almost all below 100 km/h and they tend to be quite interesting signalling-wise. Very sadly I rarely play RSN because it runs at like 18 FPS on Xbox One and having constant bad weather to limit the draw range gets annoying after a while.

    About PZB I've only used M for the light RRO freights hopefully it's realistic
     
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  37. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    I had a seriously yellow and red colorful run with plenty of PZB action on RSN: I ran service 80209 with the DB 182 and had to keep up with all the PZB restrictions for Mode M. The key, as mentioned by 7orenz in post number 32 in the "About the Signaller" thread, is to not get ahead of the 11:15 regional leaving Hagen.

    I found that running just under the speed limit and at least 5kph below PZB limits got me to the key signal just as the regional was passing. It was great to see the 363 actively shunting along the way and I was able to end the service, continue free roam and then watch my coal drag depart without me. Awesome! Thanks for the help, bescot, Jezame, fredericodelberto2001, and Articuno.

    RSN 90209.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
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  38. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    You're talking about the AI moving around you (ie that you go past, usually in the other direction), we're talking about the trains in front of you, so if one of them becomes delayed then YOU get delayed, hence the adverse signals for you rather than them all being green
    As an example I've just looked up service 1P82 Reading to Paddington (using realtimetrains.co.uk)
    Monday and Tuesday this week it ran to time, leaving Reading on time at 08:31 and getting to Paddington at 09:10:30 both days (1 min late)
    Wednesday it left on time and ran to time until Slough then progressive delay until Hayes (5 mins late) and onto Acton (10 mins late) meaning it didn't get into PAD until 09:20

    For some that point of difference means you can run the same services time and again without it becoming humdrum
     
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  39. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    The Special train on Peninsula Corridor (I think in both directions) can get interesting if you run full throttle as you catch up to a stopping service and get a lot of red light action.
     
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  40. Alexandra

    Alexandra Active Member

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    Interesting. Most of the time I drive in NRW and have rarely repeated a service (Incidentally those DLCs together offer almost 800 services). Since I see a lot of reds this hadn't occurred to me as a problem. So, thanks for the explanation -- je vais mourir moins bête :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
  41. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Welcome.
     
  42. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Active Member

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    Freight on GWE you will hit reds eventually every time, as you follow the stopping service lines. So if you keep to the "line speed" you come up against the reds soon enough. I havent yet manged to have a clean run Pad-Red without encountering red!
     
  43. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    The point there would be if you run the same service and run exactly the same every time you will come up against the same reds in the same location every time. If there was a delayed service in front of you then you would get different adverse signals (which may well mean even more reds)
     
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  44. Jezame

    Jezame Member

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    I played the following service mode route on TVL with a double headed class 37: 6E10 Dalzell - Lackenby @ 10:15. You start next to a red signal and have to wait for a passenger service to go ahead. You then end up following them and get a lot of yellow signals and potentially red.
     
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  45. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if it's been mentioned, but on Main Spessart Bahn, freight service DB86110 (leaving Aschaffenburg at 1020) gets caught behind a banking service on the Spessartrampe (the banking service itself is also caught behind a passenger service at the station at the top of the rampe). I did it with the BR155 in a blizzard and it was a very nice challenge. I imagine if you play it a bit more "fast and loose" than I did, you may get more signals, but even doing it relatively briskly with a cautious start, I got yellows and reds. 20210111174301_1.jpg
     
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  46. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    For whatever reason, all German freight services start with the PzB mode set to M, even though the long heavy ones clearly should be U.

    NB: The actual RW calculation of whether a consist belongs under M or U is a complex number-crunching exercise, which involves tables and multipliers and collecting data from every single unit in the train. But it would be nice at least to have a quickie rule of thumb suitable for game players as opposed to real-life railway engineers. Something like, "If it's more than X tons or Y many cars, use mode U."
     
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  47. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    S-Bahn on SKA? AFAIK, the only locals are RB's
     
  48. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    I think Matt's said a general rule of thumb is things like containers use mode M, everything else use U. Thing is, in the BR155 I tried switching to PZB U and the 55 on the dash didn't light up, so I dunno if it actually went to U or if I needed PZB to be off to change it, or if it's just a bug.
     
  49. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    If you own Rhine Ruhr Osten you get S-Bahn services (operated by BR422s) on SKA.
     
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  50. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    In my experience, when you change PZB modes, you need to turn PZB off and then back on for the change to be accepted.
     
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