PC New - Western Somerset Dlc Announced

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by hightower, Apr 30, 2018.

  1. hightower

    hightower Guest

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  2. Kuu Lightwing

    Kuu Lightwing Active Member

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    Oh... So, a steam route, right? Good news! Many people wanted steam, I suppose. And steamers don't have traction motors.
     
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  3. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    Yet another short route, but makes the kettle fans happy I suppose.

    If a MK1 carriage is included it would be nice to have a couple of variants of them, be good to walk in and out of compartments
     
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  4. Coppo

    Coppo Well-Known Member

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    How do the signals work? there's no signal rods in the image... ;-)

    Actually, I'd prefer that they get the overdue rolling stock out for Rapid Transit (Br 186 and Doppelstockwagen),rather than this...

    It gets a "Meh.." from me at the moment...
     
  5. pschlik

    pschlik Well-Known Member

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    I am curious to see what DTG does with this. Seems to be what they needed, a smaller project to get some good focus in. Seems to be a quick turnover too, but it is a small route that they have done before. Also helps that it is a route that runs things from the past and runs just about anything. Whatever they manage to create will certainly be different than what we have now and will most likely appeal to a bunch of people. Easy way to get in classic engines (steam, anyone?) without being in the past.
     
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  6. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed with you on this one. The only loco type that has never been done yet in this game yet is Steam. And I like to see how will it function with their Simugraph core, with already the Diesel and Electric functions in it. And at the very least, it'll be a good ride with no hassle from point A to B, just relaxing on the ride. So this may well be a good start to TSW none the less.
     
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  7. Daniel Bloch

    Daniel Bloch Well-Known Member

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    Wow the next DLC without fixing the existing DLCs...
     
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  8. NorthRail1

    NorthRail1 Well-Known Member

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    Controlled from signal box so no need for signal rods
     
  9. NorthRail1

    NorthRail1 Well-Known Member

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    They seem to be making these much easier. Great Western Express and Rapid Transit were difficult to guess but NEC: New York was discovered in hours and this one was guessed in minutes. If they are going to make the hints so easy, they might as well just announce the route.
     
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  10. hightower

    hightower Guest

  11. NorthRail1

    NorthRail1 Well-Known Member

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    DcCokP1XkAExa0a.jpg For those who haven't seen the image.
     
  12. bobsr

    bobsr Member

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    This sim lacks playability. And, much of that can be blamed on the shortness of the routes that have been made already. So, what do they do? Release the shortest route yet. As it is, I play this sim only about 3 hours per week. So, with this latest release, perhaps my playing time will increase from 3 hours to 3-1/2 hours per week. DTG you have to increase the length of these routes.
     
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  13. Coppo

    Coppo Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, possibly a bad explanation on my part.
    If you look at the signals you cannot see any connection between the signal arm and the counterweight, or any connection from the counterweight to wherever the wire/ rod is meant to go (back to the signal box).
    Of course, it could be that it is WIP, and the extra details will be added later...
     
  14. AyrtonS8

    AyrtonS8 Well-Known Member

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    The route may be small but at least its a complete route, not just a small section like GWE. Plus I think the focus will be on making the steam trains, rather than a big route. I rather the steam trains get made properly with no issues or missing content, then they can be used on bigger routes in the future.
     
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  15. jamesbaby286

    jamesbaby286 Well-Known Member

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    The smaller the routes they make in the immediate future the more time they can spend, not only getting it right, but on fixes for existing routes too. I think this is a good route for them to be making right now.
     
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  16. davejc64

    davejc64 Well-Known Member

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    I hope the sounds are improved from what we have at moment, a unrealistically quiet steam loco just won't do the job.
     
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  17. hightower

    hightower Guest

    Completely agree, this is way way too short a route. There are two being worked apparently (assuming this is one of them), if the other one isn’t either an expansion for GWE or a significantly longer route I fear TSW is not going to be what I thought it was.
     
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  18. Corvan

    Corvan Well-Known Member

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    The difference between this and other routes, in terms of shortness, is that this one is the full route. I mean, if they're forced by their development cycle to build short routes then focusing on full routes that are inherently short isn't the worst idea.

    However, we've seen one picture and we have no other information about what they're doing and how many locomotives it will include. We don't know the traction involved and we don't know what service mode will look like. I'd wait until the end of the week, at least, before starting with the doom and gloom.
     
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  19. hightower

    hightower Guest

    I’m not a doom and gloomer (life’s too short).

    That said, despite what Jay said before leaving (much of which I believe we now have take with a degree of scepticism) I do have serious concerns that these routes are coming in at these lengths to work on the Xbox.

    If DTG released 10 good length routes right now I’d buy the lot in a heartbeat & I’m sure I wouldn’t be the only one. I qualified my original post with an *if* but we have to assume this is the Western Somerset route which is 22.75miles long. I think it’ll be a good route & I’m looking forward to playing it but I’m just pointing out that if the next route is also 20-30miles in length it’s hard to deny that a pattern is emerging.

    I pray they prove me very wrong indeed! Either way it is critical they get this editor released as soon as it’s in their power to do.

    Anyway, all the info on the route, including the likely rolling stock is here;

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Somerset_Railway
     
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  20. JackRyan

    JackRyan Member

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    I doubt it has to do with Xbox, more likely with the development time. Nec was out a month ago, so this route must be in development no more that 2 months and that’s half the time that took to build gwe.
     
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  21. Kuu Lightwing

    Kuu Lightwing Active Member

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    I personally don't have much issues with shorter routes. Running services on Sand Patch for 2 hours becomes a touch too boring after some time. And the same goes for 70km route on Rapid Transit.
     
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  22. DeanO55

    DeanO55 Member

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    Hi Kuu.
    I think you may be missing the point a little about the long routes. Think of WCML-N in TS, very few of the scenarios actually go from one end of the route to the other but start and finish at various different locations be that a station, depot, siding, warehouse, freight terminal, etc etc.
    The variety of choice is huge where as in a small route the same cannot be said and very quickly gets monotonous. There are only so many times you can trundle up and down a short track before you get so very very bored with it no matter how well made and realistic the scenery is.
    But a large route just goes on and on with its many combinations of scenarios. ;)
     
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  23. Kuu Lightwing

    Kuu Lightwing Active Member

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    But longer route doesn't automatically mean that it would get better scenarios. It's not the length of the route, it's the variety of services and scenarios that matters. Like I said - we have two somewhat long routes already, but are they any more fun than GWR or even NEC? I'd say - no. I'm getting "so very very bored" on Sand Patch much faster than I am on GWR.
     
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  24. Wilbnil

    Wilbnil Well-Known Member

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    I agree, NEC and GWR are better then RT.
     
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  25. hightower

    hightower Guest

    For me Sand Patch is boring, period. You can’t get any kind of speed up so you just trundle through endless countryside at slow speeds. Had it been stand-alone I wouldn’t have bought it I think.

    I’d like to be able to simulate driving an HST from London down to the West Country, or upto the Northern tip of Scotland. I can do it is TS2018 but not in the ‘new’ sim. That isn’t right.
     
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  26. Corvan

    Corvan Well-Known Member

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    Sure, across several different routes that were released over a ten year period. What could you do in the first year of the original game?
     
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  27. hightower

    hightower Guest

    You’re absolutely right. I’d just come back to qualify that in my previous post.

    That said, the DTG Great Western Mainline from 2012 went from Reading to Oxford. Just Trains did London - Reading to Bristol, Cardiff & Exeter. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have expected the GWE DLC to have been more than simply London - Reading. It’s not like they’re starting from scratch back in 2009, this should be a continuation of everything learnt from Train Sim.
     
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  28. Corvan

    Corvan Well-Known Member

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    Well there's a few things we can gather from this that have already been stated in other threads. It takes longer to make routes in UE4 than it does in the old Train Sim engine. That means the developers need longer development cycles in order to get things finished and to produce well polished and engaging content.

    The developers don't set the length of time for development. That is determined by the 'product owner', to use a development term. The product owner is on the corporate \ marketing side of the company. They're seemingly pushing for quantity over quality. Or, if you like, multiple short routes instead of a couple of much longer ones.

    However; the idea that they're not starting from scratch isn't entirely true. UE4 is a vastly different engine to the old Train Sim one and Simugraph allows them to model trains in a much different, and hopefully realistic way, compared to what they were doing in Train Sim. They might have years of experience in developing a train simulator but they don't have years of experience with either UE4 or Simugraph.
     
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  29. Corvan

    Corvan Well-Known Member

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    I'd also like to add that I don't think the length of the route necessarily makes it better. The original York - Newcastle route in Train Sim is a good example; it's a very long route and it's exceedingly boring in my personal opinion. In the scenarios I have played, including workshop ones, you tend to spend a lot of time just rolling with nothing to do.

    A good route is one that is engaging, that keeps you busy and makes every trip feel varied. Adverse signals, busy traffic on the line, involved shunting and switching. A route doesn't need to be long to accomplish this; London Overground routes aren't very long but the tight timetable and short platforms keep you engaged.
     
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  30. JackRyan

    JackRyan Member

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  31. Kuu Lightwing

    Kuu Lightwing Active Member

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    Isn't that class 08?
     
  32. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    They said in the article that it's both a Class 47 & a Class 09
     
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  33. Kuu Lightwing

    Kuu Lightwing Active Member

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    Class 47 kinda requires the sound to be good, doesn't it? Unfortunately so far sound isn't very good in TSW :(
     
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  34. Coppo

    Coppo Well-Known Member

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    So,here's a couple of questions.
    If we have a class 47 and some Mk1's will there also be a couple of railfan scenarios on GWE as a bonus?
    and
    could we use the 09 on some shunting duties around Old Oak Common?
     
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  35. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    For NEC, there is a lot of variety. The main point is that the passenger scenarios are a dull, no vartiety in tasks. I assume a scenario editor would make a huge difference.
     
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  36. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Looks pretty and that in the pictures but if the correct sounds and physics aren’t in place, it’s a no from me.

    Also I hope you haven’t forgot about your existing DLC which needs a lot of work on. Hopefully a bug fixing update will be released along side this.
     
  37. DANNYBOY2487

    DANNYBOY2487 Active Member

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    WSR is this length in real life
     
  38. DANNYBOY2487

    DANNYBOY2487 Active Member

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    Actually Just Trains Western Mainlines goes from London to Bristol, Cardiff , Paignton & Plymouth and soon to Penzance. The reason we having shorter routes is that the Unreal Engine is still in development itself and is not capable of dealing with longer routes just yet.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
  39. Shukiii

    Shukiii Well-Known Member

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    This is not true. While UE4 usually can't deal with big maps (like any other engine), with the modifications DTG made it should be able to.
     
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  40. DANNYBOY2487

    DANNYBOY2487 Active Member

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    It is true as dovetail has said this as well on their facebook
     
  41. Shukiii

    Shukiii Well-Known Member

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    DANNYBOY2487 do you know on which post they said that?
    Last thing on route length I read was this: "The main limit on route size is how long they take to make tbh. Long routes take a long time to make but we can't charge any more for them so it's a challenge."
     
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  42. Ian1991

    Ian1991 Well-Known Member

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    Couldnt agree more......i can handle taking minor bugs or little details being adjusted over time if i had the chance to play a route for more than an hour before I got bored.

    GWE - played everyday for 2hours for a week.....now about 2hourd a week.

    Rapid transit - played for an hour and now play maybe an hour a week.

    NEC - didnt bother with the reviews

    New route - FAAAARRRRRR too short for me to think of spending money on.

    Once we start getting a route that hits 100miles or so.....ill buy it and any additional locos that are sold for that route.....but 23miles? Come on....
     
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  43. davejc64

    davejc64 Well-Known Member

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    Drive a steam loco. :cool:
     
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  44. Corvan

    Corvan Well-Known Member

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    Oh, very good dave. We weren't actually talking about steam locomotives but at least you made an effort.
     
  45. davejc64

    davejc64 Well-Known Member

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    Well considering this thread is about a heritage railway route that won't have a steam loco included I thought it was fitting to mention it. ;)
     
  46. Corvan

    Corvan Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you'd like to elaborate more on your thoughts and feelings regarding the lack of a steam loco rather than quoting a small part of a conversation that was about the length of the route rather than the rolling stock? It might convey the impression that you didn't just crawl out from under a bridge, again.
     
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  47. davejc64

    davejc64 Well-Known Member

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    I just think that not including a steam loco on what is a heritage route, known for it's steam locos is a missed opportunity, but you are probably not really interested in what I think since you have already judged me.
     
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  48. Corvan

    Corvan Well-Known Member

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    Well I'll freely admit that after these two posts, in the What Is Going On thread, where you appear to revelling in the fact that Jay may have lost his job that I wrote you off as a troll. So, yeah, I have judged you. Maybe I'm wrong though?

    However, that doesn't mean I'm not really interested in what you think. In fact, I agree with you. It is a missed opportunity and I would have to say that WSR is an odd choice for a route if you're not doing any steam. I can't really guess as to why DTG chose WSR at this stage.

    I was talking to someone last night about steam locomotives though and he was mentioning injectors, dampeners and all of these things that are above my head. It sounds like modelling a fully interactive steam locomotive into TSW will take some work which is possibly why we haven't seen one yet.
     
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  49. hightower

    hightower Guest

    How daft! Why can’t they charge more for them? If it’s worth it people will pay for it. I’m annoyed at being charged the same price for ever shortening routes. Where does that fit in the mix?!

    I don’t buy this rubbish about UE4 either. If it’s that restrictive and complicated to use, why on earth pick it as your game engine? If they don’t/didn’t have experience of using it, then hire some people who do! TSW was in development for 2 years according to Matt P, and it’s been out for over a year. Unfamiliarity with UE4 is no longer an excuse.

    So it would appear we’ve got a 23 mile heritage route with no steam, and a couple of diesels. I’ll reserve judgement until it’s released but I just don’t get what the business plan is for this franchise. What happens to a business when they point blank refuse to listen to the wishes of their customers?
     
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  50. davejc64

    davejc64 Well-Known Member

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    On the subject of those two other posts I speak as I find, they were said in jest hence the smileys, I'm not going to bother apologising for them, anyway enough about me, back on topic.

    I agree maybe DTG just haven't mastered modelling steam locos in TSW using UE4.

    From what they have done so far it seems they are sticking to what they know from TS20XX as far as routes go and to a certain extent rolling stock too.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2018

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