Penzance To St. Austell And St. Ives.

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by nwp1, Apr 20, 2021.

  1. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    The centre car is definitely a class 101. Several of these sets had a class 108 vehicle often one of the driving motor vehciles, some were complete class 108 sets, P828 is one I recall.

    Certainly a class 101 would be suitable for this time period and would be quite nice driving along the St. Ives branch.
     
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  2. heardturkey

    heardturkey Active Member

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    According to the Railcar site: Set L842 consisting of 53314 and 59110 was transferred from Laira to Penzance during May 1994. The site has several photographs of the set on on the St Ives branch going up to July 1996.

    Long live the 101 in its 4th reincarnation :).
     
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  3. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes it was. I have seen a photo of it running as a 3 car set along the Cornish Mainline. Of course, L842 was in Network South East livery.
     
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  4. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    All true; but I was posting in the context of branding and licensing. Apparently First Group want the FGW livery buried; but DTG have a British Rail license and so can use those liveries, albeit the 253/43 would indeed require some reconstruction.

    However, if Rivet do have a particular strength it's locomotive modeling, and we are already seeing that they are willing to take one version of a train (IoW) and use that as the basis for a very different variant ('38 Stock).
     
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  5. Warspite

    Warspite Well-Known Member

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    I’m sorry if you think some of us are being too negative about this route. I must admit I have been somewhat disappointed about the part of Cornwall chosen and its timescale but that’s because I’m passionate about Cornish railways. I've said before that I'm thrilled we're getting a TSW route set in Cornwall and I'm certainly not dismissing it.

    I actually have a lot of respect for both DTG and Rivet and have always enjoyed Rivet's RhB add-ons for TS20xx. I do want them to do well with this route and if we get a Valenta HST I will be ecstatic! And a 150 will be nice as well …
     
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  6. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I do think that Rivet has to do a bit of a thinking adjustment, because there is a certain disjunct at work. On the one hand, it's very clear from both TSW and TS that their preference is for routes of the "slow and scenic" variety, rather than fast routes or busy routes. But if that's the case, then scenery of high quality should be a top priority.
     
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  7. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion, I almost think there has to be some included train other than a 15x sprinter. Rivet chose to have the route go out to Truro in addition to the St. Ives branch. If the route was just Penzance to St. Ives then I'd only expect a sprinter, but the fact that part of the mainline GWML is included indicates to me some service variety will be included. It's very possible that express mainline services are present that run Penzance up to Truro. This would mean a modified HST or some loco with Mk1s are included (depends on the exact era). I just don't see Rivet developing and modeling the route to Truro only to just copy paste more 15x stopping services.
     
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  8. heardturkey

    heardturkey Active Member

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    If they did that, it would be on par with running SEHS without the 395s. Pretty much all trains leaving Penzance would have( and do now) stop at most of the stations as far as Plymouth. It doesn't matter whether their final destination is Paddington, Cardiff, Plymouth, Exeter, Bristol or the Midlands/North. I'm not sure that a 'local' service from Penzance to Truro would even have existed.
     
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  9. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    I’m not 100% certain, but I don’t think there ever was a regular service pattern just between Penzance and Truro. If Rivet don’t add an HST or other loco hauled alternative, then I’d assume that it would just be Penzance to Plymouth/Exeter stoppers that only go as far as Truro in the game, but even in this case I’m not sure a 150 would be the appropriate stock. As far as I know, right now the 158 is what does the medium distance runs between Penzance, Plymouth, and Exeter. I don’t know if 150s ever ran these service patterns.
     
  10. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    A 143 once ran the Milford Haven - Paddington service as someone on these forums once testified to, so a 150 from Penzance to Exeter is hardly far fetched.
     
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  11. Warspite

    Warspite Well-Known Member

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    I haven't got a BR timetable for the 1990s but I do have the October 1988-May 1989 timetable. This shows just one local service train a day between Penzance and Truro: this starts at Penzance at 1600, arrives Truro at 1639 and then returns, leaving Truro at 1710 arriving at Penzance at 1750. There was a shuttle service between Truro and Falmouth (13 trains each way), one of which (the 0817) arrived at Truro at 0850 and then ran to Penzance, arriving at 0931. The driver would have to change ends. Otherwise, all trains at Truro were through services to/from London Paddington (including the 'Night Riviera' sleeper), Exeter, Plymouth, Bristol, Cardiff, Liverpool and Edinburgh/Glasgow. As well as the St Erth-St Ives shuttle, there were some Penzance-St Ives services. I don't know whether the timetable changed much in the early 1990s.
     
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  12. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Here's a sample from my Summer 1995 timetable (the 1520 goes all the way to Birmingham International and the 2215 is the Night Riviera):
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  13. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure I've seen 150s working Bristol-Penzance services as recent as a decade ago. I could easily believe that 150s would work Plymouth to Penzance local trains.
     
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  14. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    You do now see 4 car HSTs run from Exeter to Penzance, however this was after 2016. For the time period a Intercity Hst with a 15x for the branch would be spot on. I do wonder however if Rivet will be told to "not make it Livery designer workable" to preserve DTG holding that back as a carrot for other routes. Once the HST has Livery designer we are talking 100s of user made re skins done by the community. We shall watch on with interest.
     
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  15. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Despite Dovetail telling us that livery designer and scenario planner will come with all new trains as standard?

    I don't see the logic in holding back the HST, it's only going to attract criticism.
     
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  16. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    We shall see. Now thinking 15x only as others have said. The HST in gwr green is a priceless asset at present, as soon as they unlock it for Livery designer the mods will outplay the use of it coming along in a dlc say "lner east coast main line" as you can just knock one together yourself in Livery designer without giving dtg another 14.99
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
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  17. heardturkey

    heardturkey Active Member

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    Except the raised GWR on the driving units would be difficult to disguise. They look like they are part of the model as opposed to textures. It's unlikely they would make the unofficial FGW model available.
     
  18. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    I agree it is the embedded nature of the GWR print that now makes me think rivet wont be given a copy and paste version to redesign with the intercity logo. We shall see, would love to be wrong and rivet do a hst that is Livery designer operational. I think dtg dont want that particular cat out of the bag
     
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  19. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    I understand where you are coming from but the livery designer is still too limited for that. We could not build an entire fleet of accurate LNER HST sets doing that. Plus, when you consider that an official DTG product will have its specific route with scenarios, journeys, a full-time table and appropriate AI sets to populate each route, it has to be said that we cannot create a similar experience with the Livery Designer and Scenario Planner in its current state. Even if it was, it would take a large amount of effort on the user's part (note that console players have no way to share liveries whatsoever as of yet) so I doubt the risk would be that great for DTG, if it even registers as a concern at all.
     
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  20. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Nor do PC players, at least as far as DTG is prepared to admit.
     
  21. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    The folders on my PC disagree ;)

    But yeah, not in an official capacity but it is at least technically possible on PC
     
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  22. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I know, my personal train sim world is stuffed full of mods and shared liveries. But DTG's lawyers have advised them, quite prudently, that they must pretend to be completely unaware of the existence of livery sharing.
     
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  23. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    I have a confession. I have tsw on ps4 only. Just enjoying the the route speculation on the pc forum as it is very lively. Keep up the good work, all your points are great
     
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  24. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    We already know from the route code that there will be at least one Diesel Electric and one Diesel Hydraulic train included in the route. An HST is highly likely.
     
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  25. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    I hope you are correct mr stujoy. Will make up for diesel legends
     
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  26. Warspite

    Warspite Well-Known Member

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    You have to be right. I cannot believe Rivet, or DTG for that matter, would develop/release a main line route set in Cornwall in the 1990s without an HST. I think they operated all the Paddington-Penzance trains except for the night sleeper.
     
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  27. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    I’ve just had a thought. The Cornwall local trains from 1996 were run by Wales & West followed by Wessex Trains so it is possible that any 15x or pacers would have one of these liveries, depending on the year it is set.
     
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  28. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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  29. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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  30. Lunar_Twisted

    Lunar_Twisted Well-Known Member

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    Despite being disappointed with how the scenery looked on Arosalinie, which I ended up not buying, I really do hope they do this route right. The RhB Ge 4/4 II model looks great but not the scenery. This route sounds interesting and can't wait to see how it looks.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
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  31. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, come on rivet dont let us down
     
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  32. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    I agree the scenery on Arosaline wasn’t the best, particularly in the distance but I don’t think it was as bad as it has been made out (just my opinion) especially when you drive in the snow. I’m certainly enjoying it. Rivet have said that it was a performance trade off in order to get the best loco they could do, which in fairness was great.

    Having said that, I think that the Cornwall route is different and that scenery should take priority, particularly the St Ives branch which is one of the most scenic and beautiful stretches of railway in the UK. Though I’m no expert on loco design, I would hazard a guess that a UK DMU (such as a sprinter) wouldn’t need the level of detail that the GE4/4 does leaving more scope for scenery.

    To echo Skyz2020, don’t let us down. Enough people have made what is acceptable clear at an early stage of development so there is really no excuse to not wow us all at release.

    I remember those Wessex trains, by the way, with their painted liveries. I doubt whether these will be reflected in the game but it would be cool. Maybe a livery designer competition in the making!
     
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  33. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    I’m really not excited about this route. I should be, but I just don’t trust Rivet to do the route justice. If they do, great. But IoW still has issues and Arosa Line from a graphical point of view (as well as other issues) have put me right off.
     
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  34. Geth_2234

    Geth_2234 Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking that to and it’s looking increasingly likely that we will get a 15x so they may choose to put it in Wales & West livery but If that’s the case I can’t see what loco hauled train they’d be using for Penzance to Truro because it would look out of place without one because I don’t believe Wales & West ever had any HSTs or any loco hauled stock in the fleet and only had pacers and sprinters and it was only after Wessex that did have 5 mark 2s and leased class 31s in 2002 to haul them and operate from Cardiff to Weymouth but I don’t believe they had any HSTs and it was only after 2006 when FGW took the franchise that then did own HST sets. But i don’t know if rivet or DTG will be able to obtain the license to use the old purple FGW livery.
     
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  35. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    What do you reckon Geth, Sept 2021 release? Got to be this year?
     
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  36. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Most likely Regional Railways 150s or 101s with Valenta powered Intercity HSTs.
    Maybe an Intercity Class 47/8 for Cross Country services with air-con Mk2s, or even Mk3 sleepers.
    And possibly a Class 08 for shunting at Penzance.
    That would cover most (if not all) services. (note that if it were post-2002 a Class 220/221 would be needed in Virgin or Cross Country liveries, neither of which DTG/Rivet has permission to publish with branding at the moment based on the removal of such content from TS).
     
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  37. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Now that would be a cool setup. Fingers crossed
     
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  38. Perks390

    Perks390 Well-Known Member

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    I feel this route will be a good base to provide various rolling stock and timetable packs (like the Diesel Legends Pack). Such as a modern day pack with the Hitachi units, 158s and short HST sets.
     
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  39. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

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    It's really fanciful to think Rivet are gonna develop two locos tbh. If you just set your expectations according to what they have actually delivered in TSW2 until now, you are far less likely to be disappointed, and may even be pleasantly surprised.
     
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  40. Geth_2234

    Geth_2234 Well-Known Member

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    Skyz2020 yep agree I think you’ve got it then I think we will see rush hour being released in august.
     
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  41. Warspite

    Warspite Well-Known Member

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    As stujoy said in post #374 above, the route code suggests there will be at least one Diesel Electric and one Diesel Hydraulic with the route. If the 'diesel hydraulic' is a 150 or a 158, you have to hope the 'diesel electric' is a reworked HST.
     
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  42. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. 150 would be great
     
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  43. Warspite

    Warspite Well-Known Member

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    Of course, they could do a 155 which were used on the regional services to/from Penzance and then make a 153 out of it for the St Erth to St Ives services. Does anybody know if any of the 155s ran alongside 153s before they were rebuilt?
     
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  44. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    There'd probably have been a slim period of time while they were being converted.
     
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  45. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Very unlikely. Heritage units were still used on the St Ives branch as late as 1996.
     
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  46. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Also, I believe only the units transferred from Scotland to Manchester (as reserves for the pacers) in 1993 were painted in RR livery*, I believe the rest of the RR fleet were left in blue/grey or SPT in Scotland.
    *These were also the units that survived until 2003, with one being painted in BR Green.
     
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  47. Warspite

    Warspite Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, that makes sense. I saw a 155 on a Penzance-Exeter service in either 1991 or 1992 but I'm guessing that, apart from the West Yorkshire ones, they were all rebuilt by the end of 1992.
     
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  48. Mark28189

    Mark28189 Member

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    Correction GGD - R6 - 01 is the prefix
     
  49. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Not generally, no. The 153's were scattered around the network on conversion whereas the dwindling Western Provincial fleet of 155's continued to run the "Alphaline" Regional Railways services alongside the incoming 158s.
     
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  50. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    During the Wales and West (Or what ever they were called) franchise of the "local routes" I am sure I sat on a 15x to Plymouth from Truro that was running Penzance to Swansea as part of their "local" franchise.

    I think when GWR took it on they still occasionally have one doing it.

    Either way 43's and 15x will be doing the same thing between Pz and Tru.

    There should be no nonstoppers...unless mail or fuel to Long Rock
     
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