The Class 150 Sounds…

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by londonmidland, Oct 21, 2021.

  1. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    I think this is what Matt was hinting at on the state of the game stream last week. More dedicated teams to things like German routes etc.
    We already know they're looking at more engineers and loco designers as well as a specific ingame sound lead because the current person is less specific on game sound mechanics
     
  2. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    1,418
    Likes Received:
    2,092
    Well if it turns out any better than Rivet's attempt then I'm all for it...
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2020
    Messages:
    664
    Likes Received:
    1,270
    Ah I miss those sounds :(
    ( not my work l
     
    • Like Like x 6
  4. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2020
    Messages:
    747
    Likes Received:
    1,371
    It is a shame mate, lovely sounds they are. Be glad when a competitor actually comes in and does better than this shameful company and its 3rd party fraudsters.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  5. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    11,729
    Likes Received:
    17,941
    No. "A" bugs are game-crashing bugs and the like.
     
  6. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    11,729
    Likes Received:
    17,941
    Or, to take another fraught example: when it became apparent the Skyhook (for whatever reason) didn't have BR 187 sounds, DTG could have let them in on the re-done Dresden 185 sound package, which isn't accurate for the loco, to be sure, but at least isn't the screechy nightmare that Skyhook wound up using.
     
  7. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2020
    Messages:
    664
    Likes Received:
    1,270
    All those of us that are disgusted by the sounds so far - if it hasn’t changed by release date we should all plaster horrendous reviews over their page and store product page to warn others before they buy it, BUT with the proposal that should the sounds be improved and to an acceptable level, I for one would very happily re-edit said review into a glowing positive one. Bit of negative press will make them sit up and act instead of just ‘hearing us’ as they keep saying.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  8. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2021
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    3,735
    There was a thread of the br204 and the wrong setup of the transmission in the simugraph, they would need to rebuild the entire loco which isnt gonna happen.

    If the physics of the cl.150 are really wrong, we would have a similar situation.

    Looks like dtg isnt gonna fix older content too, but the 150 isnt released yet so they should stop this right now and get their stuff done what needs to be fixed. I can wait..

    What even annoyes me more than an inaccurate class 150 dlc is, that dtg for sure is not gonna release a well produced 150 as seperate loco dlc.

    If Rivet is doing a bit thinking in the future, then they should have noticed that with more 80s/90s routes their cl.150 could be layered and people would need the wcl to buy, which brings more sales.

    So my conclusion is, we are at an interessting point with tsw2 and its growing content, so even for small team like rivet there is absolutley no reason to be lazy.

    My point is not, that the software engineer did a bad job, there are just technical things which are not easy to understand and cant be made by data only, so they should test their product with a person who actually was driving the real train.
    Im sure therr are 100 ways to get something right.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2021
    • Like Like x 4
  9. zzw1983

    zzw1983 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2019
    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    283
    Or not buy it at all.
    Do you realize that this company has absolute contempt for their customers?
    Has it sunk in yet?
     
    • Like Like x 6
  10. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2020
    Messages:
    664
    Likes Received:
    1,270
    Obviously not buy it - but leave reviews too, to warn others
     
    • Like Like x 3
  11. zzw1983

    zzw1983 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2019
    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    283
    Can you leave a review without buying it though? On steam I mean.
     
  12. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,909
    Likes Received:
    23,926
    You can buy, review, then refund.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  13. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2020
    Messages:
    664
    Likes Received:
    1,270
    great idea - at least then we can fully test it and give it a fair chance……you never know they may have actually taken on board how appalling the sounds are and actually done something about it, but to be fair, I just saw a flying pig… hehe
     
    • Like Like x 5
  14. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2020
    Messages:
    1,134
    Likes Received:
    1,638
    Matt has often said that they pay attention to comments on the forums.
    It will be interesting to see if the sound has been adjusted in the interim.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,567
    Likes Received:
    10,793
    So a train with literally no audio isn't considered a major bug? I can already imagine the uproar if London Commuter released with no sound from the Class 377-387.

    The auido issue with the 150 and M7 seem quite similar. Rivet have the proper audio files for the 150 from AP but it hasn't been implemented properly. DTG have audio files for the M7, yet for some reason they don't bother actually implemting them correctly and thus fixing the issue even though they have the resources to do so. Rivet probably won't bother fixing the audio issue even though they could get help from DTG presumably. If the route is currently "delayed" and if the audio on the 150 isn't fixed, then that would be a missed opportunity but not a suprise given rivet's track record.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  16. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    Where has this been said?

    Which means that they likely DON'T have the resources to do so... Having the sounds files and having the expertise and mechanisms to mix them and the coding skills to apply them are very different things.
     
  17. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    1,599
    Likes Received:
    2,648
    Speaking of leaving bad reviews. Unless a review is constructive, I’m not going to pay any attention to it anyway. I put off buying TSW 2020 because of bad reviews and then found out I really liked it. Problem is on steam there are people that pick on one specific point and then go on to be quite derogatory. Totally positive reviews are just as useless.

    I’m far more likely to pay attention to a YouTube stream where I can see it and hear it for myself or even buy it and refund if necessary.
     
    • Like Like x 10
  18. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2021
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    3,735
    So here we are, make or buy?

    Im not expecting rivet to have skills for everything, which is impossible anyway. A software engineer would need to be a technical expert of trains too to deliver our expected quality.

    So, if they are not skilled to mix sound properly, why not outsource the work to dtg? Im sure the cost for a good work will rewarded due more sales.
     
  19. roysto25

    roysto25 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2019
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    290
    I second Tigert1966 - a constructive review might attract my attention, but offensively negative reviews I will ignore - and we all know the usual suspects. Furthermore, such language as calling developers 'fraudsters' will achieve little - the targets of such invective are likely to have less rather than more interest in satisfying those users desires. Let's keep things civil please.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2017
    Messages:
    854
    Likes Received:
    1,874
    At the end of the day, for me, if a company can't be bothered putting real effort into their product or at least attempt to fix known faults with their product then I can't be bothered to get may wallet out and pay for such product.
     
    • Like Like x 8
  21. flghttrainsm#6320

    flghttrainsm#6320 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2021
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    43
    Me neither heck I would prob pay an extra £5 -£10 even more depending on the quality and realism; if the traction sounds were fixed and realistic , the missing track sounds implented and physics we're realistic because without these fixes it's immersion breaking for me a sim enthusiast both train , bus and flightsim to buy this dlc in its current state
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2021
    • Like Like x 2
  22. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    11,729
    Likes Received:
    17,941
    In one of the recent streams, can't remember which one, Matt explained that DTG rank bugs as A, B or C. A bugs are the Literally Nonfunctional App variety: game crashes, the current PS5 mess and the like. Wholly missing sounds I would venture are Bs, but my guess is that merely inaccurate sounds are Cs (if counted as bugs at all and not "design choices") along with holes in the scenery and poor textures. However, he also said that some are called "high B" and "high C," because they are very visible (audible) issues that directly affect enjoyment for the majority of players (as opposed to, say, a poorly implemented road that's only visible by exploring way off-track on foot), and those get elevated priority. A good example of a High-B that was addressed promptly was the F7 brake setup issue on Clinchfield.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  23. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    7,214
    So we're further down the track , accelerating uphill on notch one to release. What do you think has changed?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  24. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    2,053
    Likes Received:
    2,671
    I'm with Tallboy especially when he said about the older routes. Let's face it DTG struggle with sound as well, despite a new team. I wonder if they set that up just to avoid paying AP. I don't know about the finances involved but I don't know why DTG just don't use AP all the time.

    With this route I doubt I will buy it in it's current state and we know they won't fix the sounds. But is there a chance of fixing the sound if they get the physics and timing fixed?
     
    • Like Like x 3
  25. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2020
    Messages:
    664
    Likes Received:
    1,270
    i totally agree. I wouldn’t just put a pointless review. I would itemise every single thing that is what we’d deem a major fault with the product and also mention how much the community have offered to help them, sent loads of data off for them etc…..for absolutely no reward or payment, freebies etc and even now they haven’t got in touch with any of us. A fair honest review to show not only the quality of product ( or lack of ) but most importantly the attitude of the company.

    Example….I take my Range Rover, not to the main dealer, not to the local back street garage but a trusted Land Rover specialist. He’s expensive BUT has never failed to fix my car, never ripped me off, always gave me honest advice. He is nearly £100 an hour BUT I use him because of how good he is and how amazing he treats his customers. Customer relations is crucial otherwise they’ll go elsewhere,
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2021
    • Like Like x 3
  26. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    More like "Do we hire a competent game engine sound engineer?"
    You can buy the best sounds you like (Such as the AP ones which are great) but if you can mix for toffee you're going to end up with it sounding like a dogs dinner, and the 150 is wired wrong and therefore sounds wrong
     
    • Like Like x 2
  27. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    2,053
    Likes Received:
    2,671
    I would of thought getting AP to mix it would have saved them time and money in the long run. Same for DTG.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  28. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2021
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    3,735

    So i guess thats the job of a sound engineer in a game studio, to make sound sounding nice in the end product. Eather record them and mix them after having the raw sound files.

    And if you cant get the mix right, buy that part from dtg, which have experience in creating immersion.

    Thats a common way to do things for getting a product done. Even the trains we produce, parts like pantos, coupplers, brake components are bought from other companies.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  29. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    AP don't work in TSW, so they might provide the raw sound files but that's about it (so far)

    If you watched the "state of the game stream" DTG are actually looking to hire a proper game sound engineer because the guy who does it at the moment is NOT a game sound engineer. (note bold on game as emphasis on that point)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  30. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2019
    Messages:
    788
    Likes Received:
    854
    Kind of hate to say this guys. It's over...

    Rivet don't care,

    Jaspers too busy picking up his friend from the station or saying "he will look into it"

    It will be released on the 4th with journey mode updated, door opening at penzance updated and safety systems updated, but no sound improvements.

    Then Colin (rivet director) will sit down with the team and say "well lessons learnt... blah blah... o wait here's the accountant... thanks for picking him up jasper....what's that you say...30% profit margin... job done... let's get back to looking into arosa....but look everyone no promises etc....back to work"
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2021
    • Like Like x 7
  31. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    3,422
    Likes Received:
    18,127
    Out of curiosity, where did you get this date from?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  32. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2021
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    3,735
    Yes thats true, but even if the one from dtg is not titled a "sound engineer", his work seems very impressive to me.

    In the end for me a nice immersion on a accurate base matters.
     
  33. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2019
    Messages:
    788
    Likes Received:
    854
    Best guess from Sam on last night's stream. They have nothing for that week currently, so makes sense
     
    • Like Like x 2
  34. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2020
    Messages:
    664
    Likes Received:
    1,270
    sadly I worry that you are right. I really do. The unit is completely ruined by the crap sounds so I won’t be buying it.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  35. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2020
    Messages:
    664
    Likes Received:
    1,270
    This made me chuckle. Top quality content….. if you’re stone deaf!!!

    854D02E9-6EB9-43B5-8636-D081226B1824.jpeg
     
    • Like Like x 6
  36. flghttrainsm#6320

    flghttrainsm#6320 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2021
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    43
    That is quite hilarious actually
     
    • Like Like x 3
  37. zzw1983

    zzw1983 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2019
    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    283
    Rivet Games: I hate you; Pay me.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  38. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    6,475
    Likes Received:
    17,338
    I’m not disagreeing that the audio needs to be better (and the physics that drive that audio) but a great deal of this thread has been taken up with a complaint of Rivet not using some unsolicited research material that was sent in far too late to be of any use, i.e. after the DLC was made and previewed. I could understand if it was research material from someone who works on the train in question and had been offered up earlier but I’m failing to grasp how good something along the lines of “Traction motor LOUD” from a piano teacher is good technical material for a developer to work from. Or am I missing something fundamental here (slightly musical joke)?
     
    • Like Like x 5
  39. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    7,214
    I feel your pain with labour costs for mine. I’d rather pay rivet for dodgy sounds than the exuberant bill I just had for an oil cooler and unobtainable pipe, that’s a grumble for fullfatrr though, not here :D
     
  40. Veryfatbloke

    Veryfatbloke Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2020
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    31
    For somebody who's not going to buy it, you're taking every opportunity to run Rivet down. It's getting boring now.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  41. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2020
    Messages:
    664
    Likes Received:
    1,270
    Firstly - what have you done to help them? I sent over a multitude of gps recordings and real life acceleration and braking data for them to use for when they were doing their testing.
    Secondly, this was not sent in too late as I sent the data recordings from actual stock the moment the route was announced and NOT after the first stream of the unit. We are talking MONTHS ago.
    Thirdly - It wash’t the traction motor actually. it was just a quick document to highlight the types of sounds and features that have been missed in the past by some of DTG’s and something for them to research and include properly. Pointers off you like.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  42. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2020
    Messages:
    664
    Likes Received:
    1,270
    I really want to buy it and absolutely will if the corrections are made. I’m facing a £4000 bill for my Range Rover at the moment, (Turbos have possibly blown) £25 really is barely a drop in the ocean to me. It’s not about the cost of the DLC. It is the principal of QUALITY of it. Wouldn’t bother me if the DLC’s were £100 each or £1…. as long as they simulate the real thing I’m happy to part with money!
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  43. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2020
    Messages:
    747
    Likes Received:
    1,371
    They really need running down, there is no passion with that company when it comes down to their attempts to satisfy the customer. You could speak to other members about previously released DLC from RIVET and how fixes are left on the back burner..
     
    • Like Like x 2
  44. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,909
    Likes Received:
    23,926
    As I said earlier, they are the equivalent of Session Musicians for train simming. Turn up, play the chords, then go home with the paycheck.
     
  45. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2021
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    3,735
    There is passion, i would like to see more from rivet, they just have to improve their sound politics. That isnt gonna stop me from buying because there are many impressive things too.
    A new cl37 livery with a nice route. Just because there is not much variety in layers there doesnt mean its not enjoyable. Still possible a dlc comes out with additional services like cl47.

    To me it sounds your life is gonna be handicaped because of the 150. Calm down and take a step back.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  46. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2020
    Messages:
    664
    Likes Received:
    1,270
    [

    There is also a certain amount of trust for these companies. We both know the 150 well but if you didn’t you’d be putting your trust in the company to faithfully recreate that model. I’m driving the Class 31 at the moment and it looks, drives and sounds amazing but I don’t know it as well as other lcoos so I have to put my faith that DTG represented it accurately. ( it certainly feels good but I can’t be certain )

    Essentially what Rivet have done is break that trust in essence.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  47. A Very Rapid Goat

    A Very Rapid Goat New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2021
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    11
    Off topic, but with respect, I need to call you up on this. I get the point you’re trying to make about Rivet Games, but that statement about session musicians is completely untrue and incredibly disrespectful. They’re some of the most hard-working people in the music industry and work their arses off for their profession. They know far more than most big names do (and certainly more than myself), but get very little in return. There’s absolutely no comparison to Rivet Games.

    Before you ask, I am qualified to comment on the matter.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  48. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,909
    Likes Received:
    23,926
    Change Session Musicians to read Ronin, then!
     
  49. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    2,053
    Likes Received:
    2,671
    When I first looked at this Loco I thought 'that looks good. I will buy that' but then once you get into the sounds it isn't quite right. It is obvious that Rivet's priority is the Loco which is fine but where on the list do they put sound?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  50. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    7,214
    In the patch 6 months later :o
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page