Dovetail, Trust, And Myself - An Essay

No. I did that service a while ago and I was able to complete it so that is just wrong.

 

I did. The point i was making is that it would be better to have a timetable that is working as intended prior to release instead of releasing it and then bugs and crashes happen. Now I know they can't test every service but I hope that DTG can find ways to improve how they test services. Players shouldn't have to play a hour long service only for it to crash at the end.

 

redrev1917 tallboy7648 you have your views and its obvious no-one will dissuade them from them and that is fine. You're welcome to your views but please don't be upset when people like myself and doublefine7 have a more optimistic view. Both groups of people are fully entitled to their views and fully entitled to talk about them respectfully.

I personally see progress in the game all the time - are there long standing issues, of course there are, will they ever be addressed? Maybe, maybe not. Its not our decision. We can want anything but we can't have everything, that is reality.

To descend to saying DTG and their workers are terrible as has been said in this thread simply isn't fair. These people give their all and live and breathe this game every day. Imagine how you make them feel when they read this. They do an excellent job in my book living within the constraints that they have.

Paul

 

Not my experience, but perhaps it was changed in order to be completed since I attempted it, providing you think running backwards along a main line is acceptable.
Regarding RT, no my standards are not too high, I purchased a route at a standard and I was ok with that standard otherwise I would have refunded. Now that route is not at the same standard and is worst, if I purchased it today I would have refunded, yet because Ive owned it since release and I now have to suck it up because why exactly?

If you purchased a car which had adaptive cruise control then a year later the manufacture did a software update at the service which resulted in the cruise control no longer functioning would you just shrug your shoulders and say these things happen? Afterall the car still runs and gets you from A2B?

 

I am on with you. Services should be completable. Every single one. That is the ideal. But: if you take an extreme like the 1000+ timetable on BML you realistically cant expect that they all work fine and you dont have the time and resources to test every single one of them. And yes, crashes are the worst and often related to memory management and on that front things are merely complicated given that Gen8 and GEn9+PC are having such big gaps in between.

 

So expecting even the basic things to work is a high expectation. Duly noted

 

Again for the 2nd time in this thread you are putting words into my mouth which I have not stated in an attempt to make my views less valid and justify your view as superior to mine. Show me where Ive attacked any employee of DTG? I havent.

 

I dont know where you see the big issues where RT got worse? RT is scenerywise on point for the time it is set, the rolling stock is good (but not decent or excellent). Yes, it has its flaws and bugs but that is part of every piece of software.

 

I don't doubt every piece of software has flaws, but when I purchase a route with working PIS and PZB, I dont expect to see PZB broken for 6 months plus only to find when they do get around to fixing it that something else is broken. All I ask is that any route is never "updated" to a lower standard then when I choose to buy it.

I also expect when a route is released that Matt doesn't state that the incab signalling is currently bugged but it will be fixed shortly only to find that its still bugged 10 months later.

 

I somehow feel that this discussion runs around in circles. So I dont think it makes much more sense to repeat each others argument for the fifth time for the sake of our sanity. I totally agree that new bugs after updates are frustrating but that can happen. I can also understand your points in terms of that quality feels like a downgrade but it really isnt.

Expectations are always a big part of how you feel the development of a game in terms of updates and expectations are always subjective. So just agree to disagree in some arguments.

 

It really is a downgrade by any definition and even if we disagree on if the game is going backwards as a whole, I fail to understand how you can feel that as a DLC RT hasnt gone backwards since release.

 

Well i ain't upset at all. Also I haven't insulted any DTG employee in this thread at all or called them terrible at all. If a company is trying to sell a product, we as a consumer have a right to criticize it. If they can't be open to criticism, then frankly that is not my problem. DTG are open to criticism that helps them improve the game. We can't just pretend that everything is golden.

Yes every software has bugs, but when DTG say they added pis to a train, we expect it to be working, not broken. That is a basic expectation. When DTG says they have fixed something, the reasonable expectation would be that it fixed something and doesn't break something else. These are basic expectations. If you don't mind the bugs that is fine. If you disagree that is also fine, but understand why I have basic expectations for something to work as intended and not to break something else. That's not sony's fault or Microsoft's fault. The buck stops at DTG.

 

I think the basic difference here is that some of you look at a DLC and ask "How many bugs does it have?" and some people look at a DLC and ask "What does this DLC offer in total?". Its not just bugs, that define the quality of a DLC. And I somehow have the feeling that the people in here only look at the bugs and forgotten to appreciate the positive things that TSW offer. And to all of you that throw "What is positive? Its all crap." on me: I dont care. I enjoy the game. Thats what counts for me. You wouldnt abandon your child just because it doesnt behave as you want to right?

 

It's not a downgrade to him because his expectations are different. Simple really. Even though expecting something to work as intended without breaking something else isn't unreasonable (more of a basic expectation to be honest) people have different expectations. Some don't mind the bugs, others would have a problem and that is totally fine.

In life you just gotta agree to disagree and move on. Ultimately it is up to DTG to improve the game and for players to decide whether to spend money on the game or not.

 

I mean, after all its "just" a game and games are supposed to be enjoyable. And for me, you can only enjoy something if you accept the enjoyment. Sure, it could nag all day on what is wrong with especially german content (since I am german), but I dont do that because I enjoy the content. And if there is something critical, it gets reported.

 

Ok I get it the bugs to you doesn't matter. Bugs can turn off players though. I haven't played lirr for over a year now because of the M7 audio bug. I didn't buy harlem because of the audio bug on the M7A despite those routes effectively being my local line. Understand that for some bugs do matter especially when a company is charging $30.

Sure Cyberpunk for example had alot to offer when it released, but it was a buggy mess which made players not buy the game and it temporarily was removed from stores and players were offered refunds so understand it's not just what the product offers but what issues it may have. That's why I don't believe in pre-ordering games personally.

I could by a new car in a constantly hot place with an ac that constantly breaks down despite getting fixed many times because it would still get me from a to b but that would be pointless when I can buy a better car at a similar/same price but with an ac that doesn't break down every day.

Your expectations are different. My expectations are different. That is fine. At the end of the day it's also about expectations but when DTG say they make "Highly Authentic Recreations of Routes and Locos from around the world" or when they fix something, that it actually fixes something and doesn't break something else. It's not unreasonable to expect those things. That of course is still down to one's expectation of the product

 

However, I think Doomotron was trying to point out they shouldn't in the first place, if more vigorous testing was done (load up the game and look at the back of the train, bot exactly a very expensive thing to do).
Whilst I do agree SOS was a step in a good direction, it's still riddled with bugs, some game breaking, some not. The fact that if you apply the brakes too hard on the 8F the train goes into rocket mode and derrails into outer space is, well, frankly disappointing (even taking into account the quality of the simulation, which in my opinion is great).
In some cases, such as the 187, it's not an argument to mention updates adding to the cost, as it's probably the DLC with the lowest number of purchases in TSW's history, so making it look/sound/feel/be a 187 instead of cheap rubbish would probably make people buy it.
Referring to TS, the Spanish freeware comunity make absolutely outstanding content, miles ahead of what DTG make in if you compare team size and capacity. You're talking people that have jobs and families, yet they make true marvels available for anyone to download for free. Would they release a half made loco with rubbish features and so on? No. Then why are DTG, a business doing it?
Finally, again referring to Doomotron 's post, whilst I'm not fussy about the door alarms on a train being incorrect, if it's a simulator for having accurate performances, it has to be a simulator for correct door sounds. Within an hour of release there was already a sound mod to sort it. It's not even a change that needs to be made, it should just be there from the beginning,
Unfortunately I have to end saying, whilst I support TSW lots and hope to see it grow, well sometimes the quality is just.... *cough everything 187, 465 moquette, most of SEHS, 750508303772 versions of the GP-38s, SD-40s, Dostos; empty LGV Med.,

 

Lol. I hate DTG sometimes. 3 countries, plus one country with 2 routes and 2 countries with 1 route.....
Not expecting the trans Siberian express, maybe just even another French route....? U thought the issue with new countries (other than licensing) was taking the time to make everything from scratch? Erm... LGV? I mean so many routes use ETCS- L1 which we have, so.... Come on, more variety, please DTG, getting desperate now. (Next german route is another 143 and Dostos btw, in case you're interested, and in this case, the dostos have missing doors, not noticeable)

 

Hey that's what is said in every route into in the game lol. You get my point hopefully

 

It's early and I've just woken up but in regards to the original poster I think they've constructed a very well thought out post highlighting issues many of us have taken exception with.

There are things improving in the game but I do think there are some royal LOVE ups and inconsistencies which need ironing out still.

 

Spot on.

I kinda regret getting LBN. I can’t drive the route without either getting a red light that won’t budge, or continuous crashing thanks to DTG’s lacklustre attempts at optimising the game. Moreover, it always lags.

Anyone remember ECW, one of TSW’s finest routes?

 

Always interesting to see

 

Even more interesting when you compare it to TSC.

 

It's a shame we can't get hold of console stats to see how they compare.. (maybe we can and I just wasn't aware..).

 

I agree with much of what the OP has to say, but by the same token there’s a bit of Stockholm Syndrome as we are all still here, buying the products. However that has changed for me, I didn’t buy HSC and I refuse to buy SoS until the dire state in which it was released is addressed. As I’ve said in other threads, I’ve now largely gone back to TSC enjoying the marvellous steam locos from the likes of Bossman, Victory Works and Caledonia plus the magnificent period rolling stock from Matrix.

Sadly the reality is, for train simming there is no real alternative like the flight simmers have with X-Plane. Run 8? Very good but US only and to collect all the routes and train packs will cost a fortune. Gameplay is great but graphically set back in 1999. MSTS barely runs on modern PC’s and even if you switch to Open Rails it’s still largely old content. Trainz? Well unless you buy into their Netflix style subscription the latest version TRS22 is selling for an eye watering £54.99 on Steam, doesn’t include the new version of Surveyor and still has all the old limitations - essentially running like a model railway. The rest like Derail Valley, Diesel Railcar, BVE etc. are very niche and more than a bit limited.

So sadly, like them or loathe them, we are where we are with DTG and their rather odd way of doing things. I will say this though. I do believe SoS is a watershed for TSW. If it it flops, which would be partly an own goal, I can see TSW being scaled back or dropped. The fact very little seems to be in the pipeline - no additional UK route announced, a possibility of a new German and US route but very scant detail. No loco or train DLC imminent, even the likelihood of the 420 and 232 for Germany seems to have dried up. Maybe trying to run two train sim products is just too much for them, in which case I would rather see the focus return to TSC and that game get a major upgrade and overhaul.

 

This makes it sound like people are complaining that the coloured ring on the end of the brake pipe is the wrong shade of yellow. Did you even read the original post? These are not minor nit-picks but huge game breaking bugs that have either come shipped with the product or been introduced or exacerbated by later "fixes", some of which have remained for years. One of your SoS scenario trains doesn't even move without manually releasing the brakes due to the consist order. How does that even happen with a QA department? Just 1 person trying it would realise immediately that something is wrong.. but you choose to ship it like that. And then wonder why people think your QA and standards are terrible.

The fact that you think that 1 in 4 of your customers hating a product is job well done says it all really

 

Sam and Matt have said countless times that the split is roughly 33/33/33 (PC(Steam)/XBox/PlayStation). Based on that, you can probably triple the Steam numbers and get a somewhat accurate overall number.

 

Bugs are fixed quicker?
Lets see. Last time it took them half a year to fix a broken PZB on RT. Currently all we have is talk about quicker fixes. Can you tell me what update you are talking about?

Also, nobody wants perfection from DTG and certainly DTG would be the last developer were i would expect that.
What we want is releases that dont contain major bugs and timely patches so we dont have to wait half a year for the fix of a major bug. NOTHING of that has anything to do with "software perfection". Nobody is talking about small bug like three out of 100 services being a bit buggy and stopping you at a red light you cant get past. We talk broken safety systems, missing sounds (since a year or longer) and obvious texture bugs or derailment bugs.

Also, as others have pointed out already. TSW does not simulate breakdowns and other failures. So it seems you are just looking for excuses here. Sorry if i have to be this direct. I mean there are major bugs like trains having no sound and you say "well trains in real life also have problems"? Come on.

DTG could start by not releasing content and updates that contain obvious and sometimes game breaking bugs. Its really strange, people complain about big bugs like missing sounds and broken safety systems or a non working save feature and they complain that this stuff is not fixed even after years...and then some people defend DTG with the argument "they cant satisfy everyone, they need to make money, you cant demand perfection".

Imagine buying a new car. The headlights are not working. You go back to the dealer to complain and then you have to wait 6 months for the repair. Would you be a happy customer?
I, as a customer would assume headlights work on a new car.

Now i would also assume that trains in a train simulator have sound...maybe im just to demanding as a customer and it my fault that my expectations are to high,

 

About the whole "oh i dont mind the bugs, i still enjoy the game" thing...

Lets have a look how RT is advertised on the Steam Page.
"Powered by Dovetail Games’ proprietary SimuGraph® vehicle dynamics engine and Unreal Engine 4® technology, Train Sim World 2 uses real-world data to accurately replicate the performance, sounds and feel of real trains."

Ok, so why are some people acting like its not reasonable for a customer to expect that the sounds actually work?
I really dont understand that. If i drive RT with the included 442 and the 182 i still, after all this time, have no rolling sound at all. A dealbreaker for me because it kills immersion.

DTG JD we talk about a game that advertises as "accurately replicate the performance, sounds and feel of real trains" on its Steam page but you suggest even with broken safety system, not working sounds and non working tail lights...that some people are still happy because they dont expect these things to work?
Ok, so if these kind of people are your primary customer base, why even bother advertising TSW2 as "accurately replicate the performance, sounds and feel of real trains", they would be happy regardless.

 

He did not say that. You falsely lay this word into his mouth, which is very unfair. He explicitly even said: "Game-breaking stuff however does not fit those criteria, and launching with those should not happen."

 

You are correct but reading his post it sounds to me like he suggests it so i changed it to "suggest". English is not my native language.

Also, we dont know what DTG internal guidelines for bugs are, at which point they become "Game-breaking stuff".
It seems missing sounds are not game breaking as well as broken safety systems. Otherwise the PZB bug would not have remained for almost half a year so to me it seems these are "smaller-grade bugs" to them.

 

The vast majority of people want TSW2 to work so much and we want to put our money into a quality, realistic and well designed product, and it's why emotions get heated. They want DTG to have a real pride in the sounds being bang on every time, with good graphics and a feeling they're being listened to when it comes to suggestions/complaints. We're shouting at the tops of our voices for you to get Rivet to update their shocking DLC, to improve sounds, bugs etc, but you have our money so there's no incentive.....If I worked at DTG I'd be seriously worried over the next 5 years whether I'd still be in a job. The support for you is here right now, don't take it for granted.

 

Yes, i really want DTG to shine. I want them to put out great Train Sim content for us to enjoy. And when they put out good content (the 612 or the whole Dresden-Chemnitz route) I write a positive review and i tell others they should buy this route because its good.

So im not a "hater". But on the other hand, when i see massive bugs and missing key features (like sound) i point this out and i voice my concern about such releases.

As someone else pointed out. The industry is changing. Releasing games with massive bugs can lead to a big backlash. See what happened with Cyperpunk for example or with the new Battlefield. Gamers are increasingly vocal and will no longer accept products that have tons of bugs just because the developers and managers think its "good enough and we now need the money". DTG is not a one man project like Zusi or a small indie team of 5 people.

 

And that's really the point - game breaking stuff does happen. A lot it seems. And they don't appear to care enough to fix it.
But JD comes in and muddies the water with his statements that train simmers are "enthusiastic and knowledgeable" and "any small issue is magnified and scrutinised", the Ambassadors do the same by rolling up every complaint into "nit picking", "other people seem happy", "you expect too much".

If expecting scenarios to work is "expecting too much", all I can is that your standards are so low as to be non-existent.
I refer you to my first TSW2 experience https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/problem-line-bakerloo.33714/page-4#post-470649
If you think this is ok for a new player as their first try of this game, I don't know what to say to be honest. I'd be too embarrassed to have to continually defend this.

 

Indeed. Noticed my comment under yours Pete and to the best of my knowledge that scenario on TVL is still broken. I know it's been said they can't test every single run in the timetable (though they really ought to) but scenarios which form part of the Journey "experience" should be tested to the point of exhaustion until proven they work correctly and that slight deviations like running late (as on one of the Clinchfield scenarios) won't break them.

Nothing against the current management team and I've known Matt on and off for years (met him at the NRM Cab It event years ago) and I'm sure they are all nice people, but nice when you're running a business doesn't always cut it. Maybe it's time for Paul Jackson to look at the management structure and bring in a more assertive approach.

Anyhow in the meantime, off to work on my Paddington to Oxford scenario in TSC for your large Prairie!

 

I will say that I am fed up of DTG seemingly forgetting to fix game breaking bugs. We've been waiting since September for the signalling/ safety systems on Boston Sprinter to be fixed, when was the last time DTG even talked about it? They've been too busy taking victory laps with Spirit of Steam to care, or at least that's what it feels like. I think this is the main issue. DTG care more about promoting upcoming content than focusing their efforts on fixing existing routes. I'd have happily waited another few months for SOS if it meant much needed attention was given to other routes.

It's really frustrating because I really like Boston Sprinter otherwise, it has the potential to be one of my favourite routes. But every time I open it up I get slowed to a crawl for no reason. Same goes for the 313. I really like the loco but the inaccurate door sounds are a major issue for me, and it seems like such a simple thing to get wrong. It's not as if it's an American loco, DTG are based in South East England, so it's so easy for them to just pop on the train down to Brighton and listen for themselves.

That's why I'm so perplexed about how SEHS turned out the way it did. How they ballsed up a route literally in their own back garden is beyond me.

 

I kind of feel you shot yourself in the foot with this one. This is exactly the point most people are trying to make. With software there will ALWAYS be issues, no one if faulting that, its when these issues impact the end user in a way that ruins the experience is when they become an issue. The way you describe above is the way it should be, DTG experience loads of bugs and issues, but they get fixed and we, the players, "rarely know anything has happened because DTG are dedicated to making sure we're not affected and have a fun day". However, the exact opposite seems to be happening. With every new release, there are loads of bugs and issue that take forever to get fixed, this is just no okay.

I agree and disagree with this. Yes, small issues can be magnified and scrutinised, and in my opinion, this is actually a good sign, it shows that there are not many major issues for people to really scrutinise. However, what the OP pointed out are not 'small' issues, these are MAJOR issues that heavily affect game play, immersion, and ultimately overall enjoyment. An example would be with the 187, I honestly feel as though I got scammed, I have not been able to play that since it was released, so in my mind, the money I spent on that, I might as well have flushed it down the toilet, I would have gotten the same out it either way...this is not okay.

This is how it should be. I am sure DTG would love everyone to go around and say everything is perfect, but in all reality, it is not, and if things were launched without issues to begin with, we wouldn't need to focus on what is not right. (of course there will always be a few that will, but when what seems a large amount of people focusing on what is not right, then that should speak for something)

As a web developer, and starting my own business in this field, I could only image what would happen if I released websites that half worked (lets put in a dark/light mode, but when you click the button nothing happens, but we will tell the client it will be fixed...to only fix it a year later. Ah, there was something in JavaScript that was deprecated and now features on a clients website stop working, don't worry, we are aware of it, and it will be fixed sometime, in the meantime, why don't you purchase this new package of ours which will help your business elsewhere, there are issues with it that we are aware of, some buttons don't work, somethings only load on desktop and not mobile, but don't worry, we will fix it....etc, etc, etc....sound familiar?) If we had to do this to clients, we would be out business before we could blink.

I have recently started playing TSC again, and I have to admit that I am actually enjoying it more than TSW. I find it has more depth (especially if you get a pro/advanced add-on). The routes are more detailed and look more authentic, the routes are longer, and the creation tools give you so much more freedom. Yes the graphics are not as good, but since I am looking for more depth, I can look past that. The other day I did a run with the Bossman games 8F on Riviera, and when I was done with the run, I actually had a smile on my face, I enjoyed it so much that I just wanted to jump back into another run, I have never experienced this on TSW, I will generally finish a run, then go do something else, and maybe come back to doing another run later. I think that if TSC had a timetable mode like TSW, and layering, there would be no need for TSW as those are the 2 features I feel that are heavily lacking in TSC.

I personally will not be getting any more TSW add-ons until they fix there ****. SOS was the last straw for me. Ill stick to TSC for now.

 

This is also another major problem with TSW2. It's a really bad sign when even the most dedicated of players agree that TSC, a game that is well over a decade old, is superior in almost every regard. The only reason I don't play it is because I don't have access to a PC that can run it. When such an old product is doing so much more things better than a brand new project, then it's a sign that DTG need to apply the brakes and have a long think about what they're getting wrong.

 

Absolutely. The guy is supposed to be an "ambassador" which means the door swings both ways. Comes across as a rose tinted yes-fan who simply parrots the company line. Akin to a Soviet era "political officer"!

My thoughts exactly. In addition to something with VW's Prairie, I have been testing a scenario on the JT Kyle Line - emulating the old 0505 Kyle to Inverness Boat Train that used to connect out of the Hebridean steamer services. Bossman Black Five and a rake of Matrix P3's. Coming out of Kyle and running alongside the loch. Lighting just right, pre dawn unlike TSW's pitch black sometimes even on a bright sunny day. The awesome sound of the loco especially the whistle, squealing around curves I too had a massive smile on my face, didn't want to come off. I could imagine the exhausted passengers snoozing in the coaches behind (and yes it's a shame the Matrix P3's don't have an interior view) and wanting to give them a great run across the hills. I guess it's about the suspension of disbelief which is something TSC achieves far better than TSW at this point - the lighting alone is perfect unlike the black treacle look frequently found in TSW.

To be brutally honest, if DTG decided to dump TSW tomorrow and focus on TSC I would not be overly concerned, regardless of the money I've spent on it.

 

I would not go that far.
Maybe if you invest heavily in 3rd party content and download many different mods.
The "out of the box" experience is worse in TSC in my opinion. The DTG stuff for TSC is just as "hit and miss" as with TSW, probably slightly worse. Also the physics are just awful most of the time if you dont use expensive 3rd party locos.

 

I don't really think I shot myself in the foot at all, the opposite really. The point I was making is that things happen and not everything is perfect. It is up to us to make the most of it to make ourselves happy. Of course I experience the same issues other people do, and you might be surprised report them in great detail including how to reproduce them and plenty of those have been addressed. You can armchair or you can do.

You are absolutely welcome to think that. I would be a little surprised if I could convince you otherwise. My thoughts are entirely my own, take a look back through my postings and watch my reviews you will find plenty of critique. I do always attempt to phrase it in a constructive way and I also tend to emphasise the good over the bad and make sure people are aware of ways around issues or challenges they might encounter through my tutorials. I just have a different outlook. I like to get lost in the story when I'm playing and enjoy the experience. I do try and give a balanced view when I review, check out steam there are even some thumbs down from me, not many simply because I genuinely don't believe most things deserve it, out of all the DLC I can only think of three, there was four but most of my gripes around Arosa were fixed so I changed it.

Paul

 

I really love how almost everyone is just able to hate on TSW and DTG but isnt able to appreciate that TSW is actually a decent game that can be enjoyed.

 

Ok Paul, yo you are just a happy person who always tries to find positive things and work around the negatives and even if there are obvious flaws you just concentrate on the stuff that works and that puts a smile on your face.

Thats great but you probably have to accept that only a small group of people are like that.
And you should not muddy the waters in threads were people complain about issues by telling everyone how happy you are with the product and how much progress you see if you basically admit to being overly positive about this stuff and are able to ignore lots of issues that the average person would notice and that would reduce their enjoyment of the game.

As someone else said. We are not talking about a button having the wrong color and its not like the game was released yesterday by a team of 5 people so we should not be to harsh in our criticism. DTG had huge problems with QA even back in the old TSXXXX days and many of the TSXXXXX routes still have lots of bugs that never got adressed.

...everything can be "enjoyed". If my neighbor is listening to loud techno music at 02:00 AM and i have to get up for work at 05:00 AM i can enjoy the music and smile. Or i can be annoyed. Most people would probably be annoyed, especially when it happens all the time.

 

Don't sound as purchasable now when you adjust the words in this quote....I'm just tired of things keep breaking.

 

Updates are coming out quite regularly now 30/05, 22/04, 11/04, 31/03, 22/03, 16/03, 09/02 etc. you can see the notes in https://forums.dovetailgames.com/forums/announcements.73/ if you would like to. There have been a lot of fixes this year to both new and old content.

As for the car, well yes of course I would, the difference is I probably paid AU$75K for the car, but I paid AU$50 for the game. There is a significant difference in expectation based on what I spend. I've had cars that had problems their entire time with me from new so life isn't always rosy there either.

Paul

 

Into my opinion the thruth must be somewhere between the OP and JD. I still enjoy the game, but I am also surprised by the sheer amount of things not working that should have been avoided. I am not a very critical player, but when I run into issues of services that cannot be completed for stupid reasons like a signal that is not doing what it should do, I am not very happy. Especially, because the time to fix issues, if ever, is far to long. Form what I see, I think the main cause for these issues is a bug in the development process. DTG is now trying to solve that with a new test manager. This is OK, but it will not help. The key issue is that DTG tries to create a complex product with teams that do not have enough interaction. Testing should start from the moment the first track is laid and the team should feel more responsible for the end product. (I do not want to blame devs, they are definitely very competent and well willing). As long as this does not change, quality will be an issue. DTG really needs more modern development techniques.

 

Also, "you are just a small group that enjoys the game."

I wholeheartedly disagree here. The majority of players enjoy the game and dont bother to go into the toxic hole that is this forum. Its funnily always the same people that continue to complain about things for the 100th time and cant stop to drag others into their pessimistic outlook.

 

The irony is, many of us being cast as DTG haters are actively supporting and advocating their other product - TSC, so hardly hating on the company*. And yes some parts of TSW can be enjoyed, NTP and the Class 45 plus MetCam DMU, TVL (minus the buggy scenarios) and even the recent Chemnitz route to some extent. However that doesn't remove the fact more recent stuff has been lacklustre, poorly polished and tested and ultimately poor value for our hard earned money in an economic climate where many people are having to put hobby/entertainment spending as a non-essential item.

*Though much of that success it has to be admitted, is through third party content. Maybe the salvation for TSW is for DTG to stop being so protectionist about it and grant open access to the tools both for route, scenario and train construction - freeware or payware. But they can't even get off their backsides and give us Scenario Editor 2.0.

A change is needed if TSW is not to wither and die out.

 

Indeed. I mentioned the Prairie tank scenario I'm working on for Paddington to Oxford.
After placing the player train, the first thing to do is check it runs smoothly on it's own, that's 2+ hours for a semi fast steam run from Pad to Oxf. In fact I caught the first issue in that I hadn't altered the scripting on the loco and it was coming up as Class K unfitted whereas actually Class B. Back in the editor to correct that and start again. Once the run is proven I'll add the AI traffic and test again. It's called logical workflow and if an amateur player working in their spare time can do it, why can't DTG?