Nothing Is Going To Change, That Much Should Be Obvious Now.

On the off chance that someone in DTG is reading these posts they have just lost a supporter. I am not here for sympathy or support from other users everyone is entitled to their opinion on the DTG products. If they have a change of heart on editors and type of content then I may change my stance.

For the record it's not the bugs that have sent me off it's the lack of interest in allowing the community to get involved with the sim. I have been train simulation user a long time and have seen bugs in everything so far from a variety of providers. MSTS in the early days was terrible....

 

We should have a dedicated thread for "farewell/uninstalling" posts lol

 

If you have TSC already then I don't see the sense of uninstalling it if you enjoy it as there is so much content available you don't have to give DTG another penny.

Apart from Football Manager, train simulation is the only gaming I do and really for me whilst TSC/TSW have many irritating faults they are still be best out there.

Simrail is too new and whilst I am enjoying the German TSW routes not having any UK routes is a barrier for me, if they make a good and lengthy German route I will take a look.

MSTS is too old now and I tried using it recently but I turned it off an uninstalled it after ten minutes.

Diesel Railcar simulator should be a no brainer if you look at my signature but I don't like the fictional routes very much. If it expands with some more prototypical routes and different signalling systems it could be a strong contender. I do like the new graphics but they make the actual trains look low quality.

The other sims like Zusi for me are too focused on one nation.

I was excited for IHH's signal box simulator but that seems to have disappeared. I have seen another signal box simulator being produced which looks promising.

So whilst there are quite a few alternatives plus probably others I haven't seen TSC/TSW probably tick my boxes the most.

 

This kind of users have a fetish for create drama and writing such things...

 

I have a fair bit of content in TSC I have barely touched. Agree re MSTS. Even in Open Rails it is so horribly dated now. In fact I told Trainsim dot com they can bin my routes in their upcoming file clearout. I also have no intention of preserving my routes from UKTS sold on CD, other than retaining a copy as keepsake.

Had a dabble in DRS last week. Okay but as stated the fictional routes don’t sustain the interest and it needs an editor similar to TSC or Trainz if it’s going to generate proper routes. Would be the ideal sim to do something like the Central Wales line. Quickly found myself back in TSW before jumping across to Run 8 for a few evenings switching industry. Trainz fulfills my route building needs but I think it’s fair to say TSW and to some extent TSC are the current focus of the train sim scene.

 

Say that again but slower.

These kinds of "oh I'm fed up with DTG, they're not getting a single penny from me ever again" posts are getting so old and tiresome. Anyone who goes into this game expecting perfection will be disappointed, this is true of ANY game.

Are there problems? Yes. But what we have overall is still a fantastic train simulator. I think it's main problem is the speediness with which fixes arrive. A year and a half for Boston Sprinter to be playable with safety systems is inexcusable. If they knew it wasn't right they shouldn't have released it to begin with.

As for sim rail, I don't care about it until they release some British content. Even then TSW will probably still be superior overall.

 

I had forgot about Trainz in my diatribe, I couldn't even start making sessions with it and it seems too toylike in many ways. If the ECML route in TANE had a comprehensive service mode akin to TSW it would be a permanent fixutre on my hard drive despite the less good graphics.

I wonder if Run8 will ever expand to other nations. Sadly long US freight routes really don't float my boat.

Edit: looking at Zusi whilst the graphics look like something between MSTS and TSC it has some decent length routes and plenty of trains by the looks of it. Looks a little pricey I suppose.

 

I agree in part as you see many users flouncing out of the forums then a few months later they have the latest route. It was like that on the Football manager forums, someone would announce they were uninstalling it and never playing again and then six months later wanted to know the best tactic was to use with Arsenal!

However JPantera has been a long time member and I think someone with whom I have similar tastes in what content appeals the most so it is a shame if he/she has really had enough.

 

Expecting Run 8 to not do US content is like expecting Denshe De Go to not do Japanese Content.

 

Ah okay, fair enough, I haven't really looked into them that much. I like the concept though. I wonder if they will do some passenger routes in the US.

 

No need. They almost always return, sooner or later.

I've taken some lengthy breaks myself from playing from time to time for various reasons but never felt the need to tell the world. I mean, who would care? And I was never tempted to uninstall TSW.

Steam is very smart. Even if you " uninstall " a game, it keeps it in your library just in case. Probably even keeps it updated. Do Sony and Microsoft do the same?

So, we will welcome back all the prodigal sons and daughters after they've had their fling with some other game.

You know what they say about TSW. You can check out, but...........

 

Sony does. Or I should say, the PS4 does. I assume this PS5 thing I've heard about does also.

 

Yes Xbox does too. Afaik there's no way to completely remove a game from your account other than a refund.

 

I think you've covered it pretty well.

I'm keeping an eye on the new update for Derail Valley- i do enjoy that one despite it's grindy economy aspects. If my computer doesn't melt down lol.

The upcoming Railroader looks promising, representing the transition era in the US- I'd prefer not another Appalachian setting but the WIP screens look quite good.

 

"First Person Railroading
Be on the ground with your trains: walk the train to connect the brake line. Get a little elevation by climbing into the cab where immersive 3D throttle, reverser, brake stand, and whistle cord await. Ride the pilot to the next couple, or settle into the caboose cupola until the next town. Railfan your train with a flying/tracking camera as it rolls down the line, or get a bird’s eye view of your switching work.
Multiplayer & Singleplayer
Run your railroad solo, or cooperatively with friends.
Realistic Running
Slack action, brake lines, gladhands, anglecocks. Dimmable forward and reverse headlights, configurable class lights and marker lights. All of the critical elements for realistic railroading."

My goodness-

 

The emphasis seems to be very much on freight operations. Although there is some Amtrak stock available operations are a bit abstract as you can't run to a timetable or anything like that. Although it's been suggested I think electrified routes such as a version of DTG's NEC or the LIRR/metro North etc. are a bit outside their remit. They are a fairly small outfit, some of whom also have "day" jobs too, which is why development can be a bit slow.

I think these could be the sleeper hits of 2023. DV simulator mode, so far as I can tell, will be a free update (take that, TSW3!) for those of us who already bought into the programme during early access. Only downsides are the map can get a bit repetitive as does the constant manual checking and switching your route and as stated the grind with the economy if you want to unlock the big diesel, steam loco and better jobs.

Railroader, not too sure - seems like someone took the industry idea from Run 8 and combined it with first person interaction and prettier graphics. Probably not a Day 1 purchase but if initial reviews are favourable, certainly on the shopping list.

 

Must admit Derail Valley has a more realistic look to train derailments than what DTG have done?
What I've seen they actually go down the sides of canyons in a ball of flame, and not flying of into orbit.
I shall be keeping a eye on this DV sim

 

DTG deliberately doesn't do derailments, for company and licensing reasons.

 

Except they do do derailments.

 

I thought they was testing a way to put a train on the moon? LoL!

 

For like 1 second before the screen goes black, at least on TSW.

TSC still has the case of trains going to space.

 

I feel like there’s a lot more that goes on in the upper end of management than we know about.Unfortunately we just don’t know how much actually goes on

 

THAT!
I have been absent here for some time.
Also didn't play the game - and obviously did not buy any DLC since release of TSW3.
Just checked today and the bug on PS5 with the camera when riding a train as a passenger is STILL !!!!!!!!!! not fixed.
God dammit DTG! How difficult is this?

I am NOT buying ANYTHING for TSW3 until at least the basics like a working camera are fixed!
DTG, you are even actively hurting third parties now as I will not buy their DLC either until then!
And I'm really looking forward to the TSG stuff...

 

A good reminder of the TGV pack from TSC, broken on release, never fixed, then DTG just pulled it from sale.

 

Well if they pulled it from sale they have admitted that there is a fault with the product. So was those that purchased it offered a full refund?

 

Nope, was on sale from 2018 to 2021, was promised fixes, but they never came. DTG just pulled it and that was that.

You can read thru that drama here: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/ts19-réseau-renaissance.14205/

 

OOF, that was a tough thread to read. Now that's something that should be pinned in every forum section so folks know what the company is like.

By the way funny to see how many community managers they went through in that thread.

 

Well I can see when DTG get fed up with their new fad TSW3, They will do the same thing with us?
Oh wait! they are. Broken promises of fixes on top of broken promises of fixes!

 

My biggest gripes with TSW and DTG aren't necessarily the fact that content releases with bugs or other issues because that happens in many games. But what separates a responsive and player centered developer that has high trust from it's community and one that is none of those is how you handle it after the fact. There are games without DLC or with only minimal DLC that are still patching bugs, improving core content, and taking into account community complaints, reports and suggestions years later. Then we have DTG where once a route is released and maybe a patch is put out, any other issues are just left to eternity. The Baby Bullet cab car has been unselectable since TSW3 came out with no mention of a fix coming since. Just an acknowledgement that "we know it's an issue" and then refusal to speak about it ever again. Putting in a bug report just gets you a response essentially saying "noted" and a disclaimer that even if identified, issues won't necessarily be fixed. When updates break old content, it's just left as is, like the Boston Sprinter brake sounds. It just seems there's very much an attitude of "on to the next". How many times have we been told in a preview stream that a new fix or piece of content didn't make it into the release build and will come right after then it doesn't come for months or more, or never comes at all, like the SD40 horn on Clinchfield which had to be improved by mods? US players have been very vocal for years that sound quality and loco and service variety for American content has been in dire need of improvement, yet, the next DLC comes out with no mention of the loudly voiced concerns nor a significant attempt at improvement. The roadmaps and streams have come a long way, but there's still a sense that DTG has not made an effort to address the things that have most consistently been problems for players or implement commonly desired features like an editor, roles besides driving and riding, or multiplayer, the latter two of which Simrail was able to implement while in EA. Simrail is far from perfect either, but in just a short span of time, they've done things that DTG has written off as impractical or impossible.

 

O-M-G

 

So as I've made my fair share of rant posts, i shall try and balance this comment out. TSW3 is a great game. The sounds of the trains are a massive improvement. Framerate and stuttering on ps4 has massively increased. However the bugs and issues that have been present for over a year have seemingly been ignored. Any patches that have been released have only made things worse. TSW3 has the potential to be a fantastic game. I rant because i love this game, and it frustrates me that it is being held back by the abformentioned issues. I want to play more, i want to buy new routes, i really do. It's just the thought of being spadded for bugger all reason after an hour of playing- That is what puts me off. I love SOS, have always loved steam trains. When SOS Was announced, i was over the moon! It's such a fantastic route, however was bugged from the start. I knew the steam / boiler physics weren't going to be the best. I can understand that- Theres bugger to go on in terms of learning about each loco, nevermind recreating boiler pressure etc.

What frustrates me the most is lack of communication and honesty, i mean, c'mon. Your suddenly focusing on SOS fixex because, and only because you have another steam route coming out. Please DTG, focus on fixing a very buggy game, and you'll make more money. Communicate more, be honest. TSW3 has the potential. Your really onto something!

Geez, that went on a bit.

 

Wow, that's horrible- and i thought they treated TSW customers badly!

 

Just perhaps, having read that thread, some people that frequent these forums (particularly console players by virtue of the fact they’re relatively ‘new’ to DTG) will understand why so many of us who get termed as ‘moaners and whingers’ are so fed up.

This isn’t something that started with CSX:HH, TSW, TSW2020, TSW2, TSW:RH or TSW3 (yes, it really has been that many iterations already). This is a long standing, ingrained business practice. Get stuff out of the door broken or not, maybe release one patch (occasionally, if you’re very luck two) then move on to the next thing. When people ask about a fix then deflect, ignore, tease new content or ultimately lie. TSW was meant to be a new start, a clean slate, but after 5-6 years it has been anything but.

Many many people are absolutely sick to the back teeth of it. That TGV thread dates to 2018 but you can go much further back than that and you’ll find the same problems and complaints over, and over, and over again. It’s a real shame the Flight Sim World forums aren’t still open to read. That would open many many sets of eyes to the way DTG do business, and just exactly what they think of their customers.

 

Don't worry, all of your TSW3 worries and issues will soon be a thing of the past.

If history teaches us anything, TSW4 will most probably be available in a few months!

 

True, however;

• TSW content actually receives updates, which is a massive improvement over TSC content which pretty much never got any updates. Although admittedly some updates seem to cause new bugs too.
• I still quite enjoy TSW (and have enjoyed TSC in the past) despite its flaws. It's not perfect, but it's still good IMO. Both TSC and TSW3 receive mostly positive reviews on Steam.
• I haven't been able to find a better product (all other train sim/games have their own set of disadvantages), which makes me think that creating rail simulation entertainment software while also maintaining a business (employees need to be paid, after all) isn't as easy as some of us seem to think.

 

The comparisons with Simrail vs. TSW/TSC are just as tiresome as the repeated statements that DTG would not be given a cent more.

And: Simrail still has to prove itself. Other routes have been announced, but when they will come is anyone's guess. Likewise the often quoted editor! Whether it will actually be released in the end, well, I'm not so sure (you shouldn't put too much faith in initial promises anyway). In addition, the game relies exclusively on multiplayer.

TSW clearly has mistakes, even mistakes that annoy me. But it is currently the most beautiful and varied (single player) simulation on the market, which on the one hand allows an easy start, but is also suitable for advanced users (if you want to). My opinion.

Nobody is being forced to spend money on the TSW. Just don't do it and do it well (and the upper floors at DTG will then notice this). You don't have to keep mentioning that here in writing and as if the developers really took it as an incentive to develop faster and better.

Objective criticism, on the other hand, is usually dealt with and I recently had the feeling that tips from the community (e.g. with the 628) were dealt with. But it's no use just banging around.

 

I might be wrong here, but I think that one eventually did release. I have no CRR mods in TSW3, and the horn definitely sounds better on SD40. Your point still stands, just that this example might've been addressed actually

 

Don't forget to add that DTG produced FS under license from MS and it wasn't too long after DTG "suddenly closed FS down" that MSFS came along
Some see coincidence, I see MS removing DTG's license and applying a gag order to stop leaks about the new MSFS product coming out.

Not saying DTG are great at communication or treat their customers well, but on this point I think there are "mitigations"

 

The idea that MSFS was the reason for it getting canned is rather stupid if you ask me. Simple fact is Flight Sim World had no future, the player counts were god awful for that thing. It would've needed serious improvement, and that would've taken investments that frankly don't make sense for a game which was averaging less than a 100 players at a time. For perspective X-Plane 11 for a while was averaging 2000 players at a time, and MSFS currently averages around 6000 players at a time.

Hell, Train Sim World last I checked was averaging around 500 players a day, meanwhile FSW had just over 600 on its best day. So at it's very best (I'm guessing at or near launch) it wasn't even pulling in the amount of players TSW pulls on a average Wednesday.

 

I don't know the history of dtg's ownership but currently it's private investors, obviously when you sell your soul to the devil, it's no longer yours to do what you want with it!
You have a obligation to maximise the return on investments and not waste time and rack up extra costs developing a route.
I know when project red upset thier investors they were sued for millions of dollars by the investors.

 

It’s funny because every response in that thread from DTG reads exactly the same as every response they make to TSW issues.

This is exactly my issue with DTG saying ‘soon’ - JD has just replied to one of my other comments regarding the ‘soon’ updates, and that thread sums up perfectly why I have said issue.

Soon means absolutely naff all when you are representing a company that compulsively lie.

That thread made me feel shame, the tone deaf attitude from DTG there is hilarious.

 

What would you prefer their status to be?

• We're working on it
• We've got three people on this
• We're looking to get it out when it's ready

It seems people want absolute commitments on when things are released and then get butthurt when either things get delayed or aren't quite what they expect. Some indication of how DTG can put across that something isn't ready to be released might be helpful

 

They have no problem releasing unfinished stuff when it's new content. Just saying...

 

And that's as helpful as no answer at all... All well and good giving opinions, and once that's done try to move towards something constructive even if it's only between ourselves

 

It is only ‘soon’ when they are releasing content.

Once they are past the “oh hey look at our shiny new thing we’re selling - don’t worry about DLC size, we have the add on manager coming soon!” ,that’s when all of sudden DTG are able to say there are indeed issues and it won’t be coming.

This fix was on the same verge of release during the TSW 3 announcement, and look how that’s come and gone, then we go through the same phase of ‘soon’ followed by the release of content & then an actual statement along the lines of “we found an issue”.

To summarise:

“Soon” = “we are announcing new DLC, so the fix is coming soon”

*insert actual update here* = “now that the initial content announcement has come and gone, here is our actual update & it’s not soon”

 

Won't be coming... soon? Without the addition I don't see that sentence as a realistic sentiment.
Yeah it's been frustrating for those affected, no doubt. And hopefully (we all live in hope) whetever it is that DTG are doing does more than fix the basic coding dead end they got themselves into, so going back to my question... If they're not going to say "It's coming soon" when they don't know that, what else could they say that would actually be more realistic?

 

They could give the actual update? They have done it many times - usually on roadmap streams between releases where they discuss the work & don’t use misleading language.

My issue is entirely the way they market the fix with new content announcements, and the word “soon” becomes a cluster munition whenever they talk about updates in that context.

 

As, so a simple "It don't work" and then the usual firestorm of "incompetent" comments?
Not sure that would fix the issue that people are complaining about here.

 

Well that’s a different point that you can bring up with someone else I suppose, we’ve come the end of what my problem is.