Ny-trenton: Usa Content Is Still Severely Flawed

Shouldn't this have happened months if not a year ago? There was criticism with the PIS on the Harlem line about using inaccurate PIS despite reference. It just seems like it took a massive thread to generate backlash to finally look into that issue.

It's good that it's finally being looked into and whilst adding pis isn't easy, this should've happened frankly after the inaccurate LIRR pis system released two years ago and not now especially when you wanted community reference on PIS systems to avoid what happened on boston sprinter

 

Echoing what others have said, for sure feeling like nothing will change post release after looking at Harlem Line and also LIRR... but if there's a glimmer of hope for any improvements with trenton I vouch for more NJT.

 

Waiting with anticipation for your next video. We need as many voices as we can to help us spread our concerns

 

I can understand this when a release date is already decided and in close proximity - like in this case. But why decide on a release date while work is still heavily in progress and the team can't forecast when it will be done? If the routes were given a bit more time from the start, running out of time would be less likely. Ideally a release date should be set only when most of the work is finished and only bugfixing and polishing remains.

In any way, it is what it is now. I just keep hoping that one day you (as a team) learn to slow down a bit and give development more time, as it's always the same story with rushed releases and half finished routes.
Looking forward to see if the preview steam makes me want to buy the route or not. If not, then I hope that at least after the release the route will get updates (missing services and LIRR layer) to make it more appealing. Until then, I guess I will have fun with the Acela on Boston.

 

Actually there was a thread when they were doing the Pres crew update to LIRR from Adam asking for pictures from people. Almost 2 years ago.

I don't know whatever happened there but alot of people posted pics..

 

Even videos with complete PIS animations...

 

They had the reference for the pis on LIRR. But what happened was due to self imposed time constraints, the inaccurate pis was released as part of the preservation crew update to lirr. They haven't bothered to add the correct pis displays since

 

Too many excuses. Too many red flags….for too long…… they have known about The LIRR signaling and used it as an excuse for the amount of services . Now here we go again….. new signaling system , same issues

 

It's just these small things left out that can make a route a great route instead of just a good route.

What happened to the passion for trains?

 

If DTG is beholden to a private investment firm, then I can understand why the development deadlines are not "self imposed". That company would greedily want its money regularly and on time. It's up to DTG to figure out how to make that happen and where the minimum quality must be to make the maximum dollars. A sad place to be as a fan of the genre.

 

In the future, can y'all just be more transparent about reasons for things. Don't just say "it's not the full timetable" and then move onto the next item on the stream agenda. One shouldn't have to go a pages into a reaction thread on the forums to find more details on why things are left out or missing. There are times where I feel DTG communication is falling back into the "dark days" (despite improving in other ways though) and at least being completely upfront on things would help immensely. We may not like the answers, but then it doesn't come off as you trying to squeeze cash out of us or hide laziness.

On the PIS, it's funny before it was added, I didn't think it was that big of a deal. But seeing it in stations, it really adds to the route value on the European routes, but seeing the British design on the US routes really does look out of place. So, I hope we see this finally change for good moving forward.

It does seem that the age of LIRR is catching up to the advancements of the game. Although my remaining question is, why hasn't there been the same effort put into researching/learning American signalling systems that the signalling team has put into things like PZB. Ideally this should've already been properly researched and implemented such that its only minor tweaks in new routes and we don't get routes with broken systems.

 

Hooray! Looks like the stars did manage to align after all! https://live.dovetailgames.com/live...new-york-trenton-and-amtrak-acela-walkthrough

Must say that it's great to see the NJT Cab Car finally. Looks nice! And it's good being able to get a closer look at the trains and hearing some of the more recent implementation of the sounds is really appreciated.

 

Also, credit where credit is due, I do think NY Penn looks quite a bit nicer than it does on LIRR with the new light baking. Is it as good as it would look with a new more accurate model? No, but I think it looks quite a bit better with that new lighting and it's a good step in the right direction. Also, really cool to hear that all the trains in Sunnyside will be performing timetable duties. Very impressive. Just need to hopefully get the rest of the NJT timetable in post launch. And it's a shame we couldn't have had an equally busy and bustling Morrisville yard at the other end of the line too, but while it would have been nice to have, there are other things on this route that need prioritising atm ofc. But yeah, a really nice pair of videos in the article. Looking forward to the preview stream on Monday, but definitely need to see more (although I'm feeling a bit better now about the route after seeing some more stuff in the videos).

 

I'm interested to see how the stars align during "NYE on NEC" *insert sunglasses emoji*
The ALP-46 horn is immaculate. It sounds cleaner than a number of them in real life.

I just bought the disc for my Xbox One. Looking forward to getting the DLC on Tuesday.
First time I bought a disc in anticipation of a game in a LONG time.

 

Yep, NYP doesn't look 100% accurate. But I can see better on the platforms, it's not as dull / dark as it was in TSW 2020.
The tunnels appear to have better lighting too.
Hopefully the interlockings around NYP have better lighting as well. I wish we had Morrisville too. Oh well.
Looking forward to the stream on Monday.

 

I gotta say, I just woke up and read back though the thread

I really appreciate the clarity and explanations from Matt, as well as those videos being posted, I think the communication is a great step in the right direction.

I’ve gone from being disappointed and not seeing myself buying it anymore, to being hopeful and looking forward to the preview stream to see if I’ll buy it.

Thanks Matt and good weekend to y’all at DTG.

 

off-topic, but.. arriving soon. you all are the best

 

After reading this thread, I can finally say it's about time the community banded together and stressed our frustration. I thought I was the only one that has been so frustrated with US commuter service releases. Not only have the routes look like a ghost town, but the routes are so short. The first atrocity was the first NEC Newark Airport to New Rochelle. Maybe it's me, but I can care less about the PIS system. on the platforms. I would instead like to run a route that makes sense. For example, the Harlem Line could have gone as far as Southeast, which would be the end of the electrified track. The LIRR could've gone to Huntington. Two more stops and about 37 miles from Penn Station. We just have been getting short-changed for far too long. I understand you guys are on the other side of the pond, but recruit folks from here that can help to get you guys the data you may need for these routes. There is a plethora of railfans on youtube that do a damn good job videotaping railfan widow rides and know the system. Hopefully, Dovetail will take this as constructive criticism. I've been a customer from the Kuju days, and they have come a long way since then.

 

DTG Matt Thanks for this helpful contribution. I'm absolute fan for this route.

 

The shine effect on the Acela is amazing! The ALP-46 horn is amazing!

 

Just watched your videos. Good stuff

it’s North Jersey coast line not New Jersey coast line

 

Comparing that ALP-46 horn between the original Trenton preview and this new walkthrough, the glow-up is insane.

 

Looking and sounding good. But still can't get over it that there is no LIRR/CSX/AI only services etc.

I just read that if this is possible why...
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/sehs-ai-timetable-easter-eggs.65127/

 

The horns on Metroliner and Acela seem less than ideal to me, first sounds low quality and cuts off quickly, second sounds like trackside recorded with all the noise in it.

 

I don’t understand the hang up on csx trains
Irl there is no freight between ny Penn and Newark airport. There is a local once in awhile … maybe once or twice a day hauling freight down the mainline

 

58 miles from nyp to Trenton is not short. Boston Providence was like almost 50 miles. Peninsula corridor was 47. The routes are around average length. Other routes in Germany and uk also have short routes.

 

CSX static freight cars aren’t a huge deal, but they were present in Boston and Harlem and makes the surroundings feel a bit more alive, these snapshots of Google satellite view were taken between Newark and Trenton

 

I agree to much of an extent but some routes to me are not very fulfilling in their scope.

I don't know much about US cities but is Trenton a major stop or Providence? I know of Philadelphia.

So many routes could have been more immersive with some extra track. Harlem for example. TVL already a short route, yet most services went to Bishop Auckland at the end of a short branch line. ECW not going all the way to Hastings. The new steam route with its ridiculous start point of Ambergate, Some routes would benefit from having branch lines added.

 

Yes, this. Although we now have more of an understanding about why static freight stock was not included, certainly it would have improved the route if it was there, much as in HAR and NEC-BP.

 

I have to give it to them. The videos that were posted yesterday look good. since they are promoting the LIRR wanted to show some screens shots to help the new players out decide if they want to purchase the LIRR route

 

Here are some more

 

Same like it feels so needed on this route & to know that we have the stock for it but we won't see on the this route just really does it for me. We all know it's possible if they just put a little more time into it to add these things after release. Would be the Best US Route....

 

Same here. There's barely any freight ON that stretch of the NEC nowadays. It's not like the 1970s when freight was all over the NEC.
When they do make their RARE appearances, they move like Gary the Snail from Spongebob (no disrespect to Gary or Spongebob).
To each their own though. I understand the desire for immersion, whether it be static or playable.

 

Trenton & Providence are major stops, along with Philly.
The #s below are from Great American Stations:

• Providence (PVD): Annual Station Ridership (FY 2022): 569,195
• Trenton (TRE): Annual Station Ridership (FY 2022): 254,694
• Philadelphia (PHI): Annual Station Ridership (FY 2022): 3,058,329

Now, I'm not 100% sure how accurate these #s are. However, it's safe to say these three stations are rather busy.
When you're wondering how busy a station is, a simple Google search of "[insert station name] ridership" is a good place to start.

Sidenote, your mention of Philly and subsequent mention of ECW took me to a rather um, extreme place.
Fortunately, my education on context clues cleared it up for me.

Cheers.

 

A little of topic. After playing LIRR and seeing the route again, I have to say is a lovely route. Has tons of potential if some love comes is way. Maybe if we get an extension, get the Boston treatment,new signaling, with new locos like the M9, diesel loco for us to purchase and DTG to make their profits , this could turn out to be the BML of the US. I know , I’m reaching for the skies but that’s all I can do. Hope.

 

Most acelas stop at Philadelphia. Only 2 stop at trenton irl I believe. I think trenton is more of a stop for njt trains. Don't know much beyond that since I don't know much about operations on the nec.

 

It's already been explained by Matt why it wasn't included. It's a big task after all to test every single service as they get added in and with soo many locomotives and cab cars having to work well, it took too long and time ran out. And there are no plans.

 

That definitely seems very little in terms of passengers, although I look at it from a European perspective where the train is heavily used by the population.

To give an example from my country in comparison, I will say the city of Toledo, with a population similar to Trenton and a distance from Madrid similar to New York, we are talking about between 1.5 and 2 million passengers a year passing through its station.

 

Most Amtrak trains other than the Acela stop in Trenton. The Acela is the exception

 

Thanks for that. Maybe if we see a utopia in the future where TSW gets extensions, we might get one to Philly.

Erm, I think I shall avoid delving any further into this extreme place. It certainly won't be Eastbourne !

 

For this route to become the American Brighton Main Line you need ALP-45DP NJCL RVL Morris & Essex Lines.
Comet II-IV like 5244 since we have MLV I-III seen here is 7523

However there is a problem is that the game will open both high and low level platform doors in reality a selective door operation is used meaning low level platform doors only open at those stations while high level platform door is closed. Both doors are opened on high level platforms like NY Penn New Brunswick NEC Line NJ Transit while Raritan Valley line Roselle Park Union and the electrified section Newark Penn to NY Penn.
That means at Jersey Ave Station both High and Low level doors will open. Same thing will affect the Raritan Valley Line if made.

 

Yes,Trenton is the capital city of New Jersey, but it's a relatively small town, I think less than 100,000, so I wouldn't call it a major stop on the NEC. Philly would have been more logical, but it's close to 100 miles from NYC, currently beyond TSW's route limit.

 

Trenton proper is a tad less than that 93-94k but Jersey isn’t like many places in the country where beyond the city there isn’t much. The population in the general area that would use that stop is easily 5x that. Towns like Ewing Hamilton etc are huge it’s just as populated on the pa side of the river

 

Yep, as I mentioned, I'm not sure how accurate those numbers are. Let alone who records them and how they record them.
Plus I'm not sure if those #s were only for Amtrak.
For instance, Amtrak owns the NEC on that stretch. However, Trenton is also served by NJT's NECL and SEPTA's Trenton Line.
Moreover, I'm not sure if that # includes connecting NJT services (NJT's River Line for example), I doubt it.

Also, for a number of reasons (entirely different conversation), ridership isn't what it was pre-2020.
Nonetheless, I'm sure it's enough to show it's a rather busy station.

 

Major can be subjective. In my opinion, any station where a good chunk of Amtrak's trains stop is major.
Most Regionals, LD, Keystones, etc stop there. It's also served by NJT & SEPTA.

Prior to Morrisville Yard getting rebuilt for NJT, the interlockings near Trenton used to be pandemonium.
Objectively, Trenton was a major bottleneck back then.
NJT & SEPTA having to coordinate reverse moves & crossovers with Amtrak trains serving the station wasn't unlike my experience in Calculus, complicated.

Philly is definitely more important than Trenton, but Trenton holds its own in my book.

 

ECW, ECW, ECW!!

This…. Is extreme!

 

They can't go south of Trenton without the SEPTA license, it has nothing to do with logic or anything else.

Overall, I'm feeling better about the route after Matt's explanations.

Giving the benefit of the doubt, IF the signalling and safety systems have truly been nailed down this time, that really is an important step for US routes going forward.

Hopefully, Harlem line will benefit from this as well as LIRR 2.0 (I'm not expecting any more fixes to the existing route, but an SEHS-style extension/upgrade would be most welcome).

PIS fixes, please, please, please

 

For half the route say between Rahway and Trenton the traffic on the line will be prototypical

there are those saying it’ll be all green end to end the nec doesn’t really have many bottlenecks to begin with where a red light is frequent. It’s between Rahway and Newark where the lack of the full time table will be noticeable. In Newark it’ll be a little bit more profound if you’re sitting and watching less so if your running a service. This will be moreso in secaucus junction. Between Newark and ny Penn it’s uncommon to have a green light all the way in during peak times. This is where it will be noticed the most.