I Don’t Like This Push For More ‘gameplay’.

Imagine a world where we had (easy) access to the timetable & could choose which train serviced a layer.

All we really need is for DTG to give us access to things.

 

You do so, and I will continue to speak up for those of us who want to see more realistic gameplay but also would like those who are not bothered about realistic gameplay to get what they want too.

 

Well, I don't really have a dog in this hunt because, though I play UK routes a lot, my knowledge of which trains run on which routes is very sketchy.

What I do know is that, while you guys worry about too many or the wrong layers on SEHS etc., we US fans are patiently waiting for additional layers on NYT and CJP which should have been there from the get go.

To say that North American fans have been short changed in the last couple of years is a gross understatement.

 

TSW- what does that even mean?

T trains
S simulation
W- World

So it's about a simulated railway world. This includes something more than puristic HUDless driving. If you only want that, you should also find it on the PC and have a lot of fun.
Since TSW is also available for consoles and also depicts a railway world, such gameplay is of course also needed. If that is useless to you, you can do without it.

Can such a simulation always be 100% realistic? What are my expectations of it and why? I'm not a railroader, nor am I an enthusiast. But I like trains and everything around them. And if I feel like I can move in a world of railroads and also drive trains, then that's what I wanted. TSW gives me that.

And of course, when a function is implemented, I expect it to work! And yes, I would like to be able to do more than just drive trains in terms of gameplay. But I'm still missing a few features that would allow me to do that. E.g. Spwaning from one station to the next instead of torturing myself through the menu forever. This would also enable completely new scenarios in the area of maintenance. Certainly more interesting but also more complex than snapping off tickets. So that's still some potential.

In addition, TSW offers various game modes, whereby the quick game and the dynamic weather in particular should be optimized. Until then, it's more of a curse than a blessing. But it could also be different...

Yes, I would like to see more gameplay in TSW and a big hit would be a scenario planner 2.0! With the option of incorporating ready-made scripts. E.g. uncouple here, couple there, secure a level crossing, etc. This would keep the community extremely busy and let off steam really creatively. Instead of an editor, there should definitely be an extended scenario planner.

I also love the idea that new gameplay features will be offered in the upcoming scenarios to see how it works and how it plays out. I think going this route is a good thing.

Until then, TSW will take me into the world of railways. Since I see nothing but drunken and lied. But I also see a lot of potential and that this is desirable. And what use is the best sim if the gameplay falls by the wayside. Then I feel like I'm just using a simulator, but I don't feel like a railroad worker.
Like a lonely HUDless driver who is not at all interested in the world of railways.

I think TSW is on the right track with more gameplay while of course not neglecting the sim! Then it is what it promises.

 

Seems a bit childish to me refusing to buy a route you may have otherwise been interested in simply due to the presence of a couple of scenarios in journey mode. As far as I can tell they are very short (on a short route also)...personally I do not have an issue with that even if I had no interest in guard/photo mode

 

I play TSW3 to drive trains and I prefer doing that via Journey mode. I have zero interest in gimmicks which distract me from driving trains, as such this route isn't for me so I'm not wasting my time, money and energy on it. It's not like I don't still have 480+ journey mode services to complete on routes which don't have such distractions isn't it?

 

A less hyperbolic layer would be the ICE1 on Boston/NYT.

 

One thing I'm struggling to understand here.

Many people I see are complaining about new features, or the general direction of TSW.

Question is, why do they still play it, if they are becoming increasingly frustrated with the way things are going? Because it doesn't make sense to me.

 

My complaints are twofold. One is that many promised features have never materialised or have come in a water down fashion (scenario editor for one) this is after a lot of money is spent on DLC in the past. Secondly is that those of us who have been train sim players for many years can see the potential that TSW has and that a lot of recent content is lacklustre especially UK stuff. One train routes and thinned down timetables and stations that are desolate despite being some of the busiest in the world. That's not to mention much of the last 50 years of railway ops in the UK being ignored as it doesn't sell.

People speak up because they want to see it do better even if for reasons different to my own. The amount of times now I have spoken to friends with coding experience about combining my ops knowledge to produce something else spurred on by TSWs products not hitting the spot any more.....all that said I still wish DTG well but when something takes a different direction then its maybe time to move on....

 

Fair enough, just trying to see it from both points of view

 

Because we love trains and are deeply invested in the title and want it to be the best it can be.

I can still spend hours every week on the game for the next 10 years we thout repeating a service or spending a penny more. But I want to support the game and see it grow, but getting to the point I feel Im throwing good money after bad in DTG direction

 

To Jack above (I’m on mobile and forgot to quote) Because it’s actually a better experience than some are willing to admit.

TSW has plenty of issues but I think one of the bigger issues at this point is with the forum community itself.

There’s a lot of players, all with different priorities and some of the ones that stomp their feet and scream the loudest aren’t concerned with the larger community- they’re likely too emotionally attached and only care about getting their own wishes met, even if those wishes would damage the product.

Folks have been hoping for some sort of guard work implemented and they finally got a little 20 minute scenario- the tiniest taste of guard mode we could give those people…

Yet we actually have people here basically saying “no, they can’t have that!” “Do you know who I am? I’m a loyal paying customer! You have to listen to me! I’m the priority here!”

I’m a loyal paying customer. I’ve bought every dlc. If I think something sucks, I’ll say it. However, that doesn’t mean that my feedback is good or valid. It doesn’t mean that I know squat about what goes into coding a layers toggle. It doesn’t make me more important than any other end user.

I think some folks need to realize this. We as a community (and I mean the whole community, not just us in this forum) are important to tsw. We as individuals are not. Feedback is important but stay grounded, don’t let your head get too big, and try to be reasonable.

It takes a BIG village to keep game franchises going, so pandering to a couple of folks who think they’re the priority won’t do the franchise any good. It needs to sustain a healthy amount of growth.

 

I presume you're talking to me?

In any case, of there's something I cannot stand, it's people complaining because a certain feature hasn't been implemented because THEY want it, or the game does not live up to THEIR expectations.

I have this mindset simply because I know people personally who played games, and then simply complained because they don't like what is in said game or its apparent decline (although I am guilty of this in some respects as well).

But, unfortunately, game developers can't please everyone and obviously some people are going to lose out and not be happy. A lose-lose situation for both parties.

 

I agree with the observation that video games need less gameplay.

 

That ran in the 90s in a route that isn't even set in the 90s? Makes no sense and also the ice 1 wouldn't even be able to run on the line unless it was converted

 

Just look to TSW3's initial CG rendered video with rap music to know exactly where DTG's heads were at. Simcade for sure, but left in a beta stage alienating a big chunk of their user base which led to their company's eventual fire sale.

 

Proof that they were sold in a fire sale or is this just more of your fantasy?

 

What firesale dude
Focus doesn’t buy studios to kill them off, they’re not EA. Focus’ acquisitions are a totally different strategy of having a massively diversified portfolio of B tier studios. Focus want to cover all the little niche stuff that EA and company do not.
Dotemu is still doing fine, as are Blackmill and Deck 13… To succeed Focus wants successful subsidiaries and partnerships

 

This poster is always coming up with conspiracy theories, it suits their narrative!

Trouble is the hard of thinking believe it and will then go and spread these theories around the internet and then they become fact.

 

More gameplay in a video game?? Down with that sort of thing!!

I am said "casual player" of this game, and I don't really focus on the simulation side of things. To me, TSW is just another one of those games where you can listen to something else at the same time with in-game volume down to a minimum but just enough to hear AWS.

Surely, more gameplay would give a better and more rounded experience to players than being stuck in the past on Train Simulator Classic with its PlayStation 2 graphics and that ridiculous HUD? If guard mode was done properly rather than the half-baked attempt on the Glossop DLC, it could actually be quite decent rather than the current selective ticket checks and such.

Finally, and on a slight side note. When it comes to suggestions by casual players, I do notice a certain attempt by some to invalidate them because of a lack of knowledge about rail, route, or purely because of location. Some will instantly dismiss it as if they think they are an authority in the community, not to mention the "more info please" brigade who could actually contribute to a suggestion if someone wants a route but doesn't know all the details. Thankfully, I have seen some who understand the definition of the word 'community' and helped out with those who aren't train enthusiasts.

 

It would probably solve many of these issues if layers were selectable, like mastery awards are selectable. A grand idea for TSW4.

The original SEHS is a very informing case. I didn't like that the 375 would run the otherwise missing 465 services. However, I ALSO didn't want to see an empty timetable where those services should have been. Just another player that is too hard to please, I guess. Except, DTG eventually solved the problem by releasing SEHS extended. It just took more time. So, the other way for DTG to address this would be to make more complete DLC in the first place, taking more time and releasing less DLC overall but charging more. I don't know if that would be a popular move, but it is not the way things are currently in any case.

 

Brilliant post! Well said!! Round of Applause.

Wise words indeed. Thank you.

 

The layer toggle was brought up and answered by Matt, for those who didn't tune in, to paraphrase him, theres no major technical barriers to implementating and it's something he wants to do and he can see the benefits but nothing programmed in currently to develop it.

 

I have seen some individuals during my time on this forum who would put themselves forward as the representative of the TS community and will shoot down people's suggestions because THEY do not want it. I also see others who will do similar things if different people post a perceived unpopular suggestion several times within a short period of time, and a prime example of this is the Marshlink Line between Hastings and Ashford International. People were literally asking "Why do people keep suggesting this??"... Maybe think beyond your own little world and consider there is a demand for it.

I have had people shoot me down because I post a suggestion that has significance to me, and I feel that it would be a good addition to the game for all. One person responded to the effect that "Dovetail won't make a DLC just for you" when I had expressed why I wanted the route. I am sure for most that the routes we post have some significance to us, otherwise, we wouldn't post them.

The people who annoy me the most on here I dub the "more info please brigade", who I feel have the least sense of community other than those I mentioned in the previous paragraph. They don't seem to realise that a lot of people who play TS are not enthusiasts (including myself) and will not carry the same knowledge as someone who stands at East Croydon station spotting trains for 5 hours every week. I do see people who will post the name of a line and maybe a picture of the train, and they probably do not know anything more about it before the vultures fly in with "more info please, more info please", whereas they could be more productive and assist with the suggestion.

 

I haven't watched the stream yet. That does sound positive though.

 

Google is your friend or even wikipedia to some extent. It's not difficult to find info unless it's a route that is really secluded and unknown that there is no info on it. But some info is very possible to obtain. Plus if the route exists in tsc, could use the steam description for it.

 

The suggestion sub forum can be a toxic place at times for th reasons you mention,I rarely venture in to it. I don't get why people feel the need to comment on almost every post pop pooing them. If you've no interest just move on, that said others do give constructive feedback like " X to Y would be to long for TSW you need to be thinking something a lot shorter" or pointing out that there's problematic long standing licensing issues which probably make such a route a non starter.

 

I just hope they do something like that soon if they are gonna add trains on routes that wouldn't run on a line in real life.

At least my question was answered

 

I won't do that. I think it's valuable feedback if I'm not interested in X suggestion because of Y reason.

 

If a person posts a suggestion, then another person can say why they wouldn't want that route in the game. It's good feedback as well for dtg so they can see if this is a route that the community is interested in. Some people can also ask for more info if the suggestion is vague and want to know more information on the route to see if it is a route that they may be interested in. There is nothing wrong with that

 

I never understand people that think the price of a simulator is €50. For that price you can get a video game, not a simulator. If you buy a video game with "simulator" in the title and expect it to be a true simulator your expectations were too high to begin with.

 

People see the world simulator and think "it will be 100% true to life" for some reason.

 

Well when a company advertises their product to be "a highly immersive rail simulation featuring authentic routes and trains from around the world", it's not surprising that there are customers that are expecting to get what the company advertises. If the company can't deliver that, then they shouldn't be advertising the product as such.

 

Define "authenticity."

 

Authentic means something that is real so if DTG is advertising the product as authentic simulator, that means the product is a recreation of something from reality be it the modeling of a train, the sounds of a train along with the route and environment of a route

I mean of course this game isn't an authentic simulator with 100% accuracy which isn't a bad thing but why advertise a product to be something that it isn't or can't. I find it equally ironic that when people call out DTG for not doing what they advertise, some try to downplay or question why a person is questioning a company for not delivering what they advertise.

Imagine if a person went to buy a ham sandwich and the sandwich is advertised as having, ham, cheese, tomatoes, lettuce and mayonnaise but when the customer gets the product, all they get is just bread. It would be normal to call out the person who gave them the food for not doing what is advertised.

I think if the advertising of the game was different, people’s expectations would be different but since DTG advertise the way they do, the reaction by some isn't surprising. Whilst there are those that don't care, may not mind, or have lower expectations, there are others that expect to get what is advertised.

 

It is accurate though. Granted not 100% but they have limitations. No game would ever be that authentic no matter how hard you try.

 

advertisement is just... advertisement anyway, i think.

question mark on ticket checking for me too, but i think these kind of trial is needed.

 

Like, unless you have compatibility for a full haptic bodysuit and smell-o-vision, can your game be said to be truly "authentic"?

 

I'm here to play a game, don't want the smells of real life in there too

 

LIRR is not accurate to the real world in terms of sounds, environment and certainly the timetable. Harlem line is also not accurate in terms of environment in many areas. The Manhattan skyline in particular is terrible. Bakerloo line is another. NY-Trenton is another. You can see the Manhattan skyline from Secaucus Junction but is nowhere to be seen in game. Penn Station isn't accurate to real life. The sounds of the DB BR 422 are inaccurate. I can go on but the point stands. Many routes aren't accurate to the real life counterparts and that isn't a bad thing but then DTG shouldn't advertise their products as authentic.

 

Then instead of posting on a forum how real it isn't, just don't play it?

Otherwise, you are falling into their so-called trap.

 

Not playing it isn’t the point, the point is the game is being sold as something it isn’t. That’s a fundamental issue it’s not a personal opinion.

 

The typical if you don't like it, don't play it or don't buy it response.

In fairness I do think the lirr is the worse route in the game and is a route I haven't played it for ages.

If you read my posts on this thread, I have said that yes DTG doesn't deliver what is advertised but I also said that doesn't make it a bad game. I do enjoy playing alot of the routes I do have and just because I don’t have to play it doesn't make the company immune to criticism because if nobody criticized the product in a constructive manner, then how can the product become better if they think everything is perfect.

The game is being sold as something is not. That isn't a personal opinion but a fact and I and others can call them out on that and not be shouted down because you may not agree with it

 

completely agree it really annoys me that accuracy and realism is often thrown to the side and all time is spent on some dumb gimmick that no one asked for

 

Plenty have people have wanted, and asked for a railfan or guard feature to be implemented. Just because you think it's dumb, doesn't mean everyone agrees with you.

 

In the case of DTG's releases in the past year, less is more. (less route, more cost )

 

I never said that a guard mode was dumb as thats technically still simulation so I don't know why you are trying to put words in my mouth

 

Good job they don't, I doubt I'd even fit in a gimp suit

 

Maybe define better with what you mean with "gameplay". You want simulation but what does simulation mean to you?

When I saw the title Train Sim World I thought it would simulate me being a train but they added gameplay for a train driver. Very misleading title if you ask me. It should have been called "Train Driver Sim World" >sarcasm<