Enough Is Enough!!!

But, Sadly No moe Cake foe me not even with a cherry on top,
Unsweetened CoCo in my oatmeal sure kind of maybe a little bit.

All the ruffled feathers are due to DTG's lack of being properly open and making it appear like all is going to be okay, Big fan fair for Gloossop and you get a photo option setting mode when you stand where you're told to. Prior to that the added variety to SOS, ooo look you get a maroon-colored train, oo oo oo and a black one also, with a couple of added routes, then the somewhat more subdued release of Norfolk Southern Heritage Livery Collection Add-On, the price was not bad.

That must have taken a few days at the most to do a skin job, in all honesty "and that is me being a N00B to the Train Sims as a whole" I was not completely expecting to see a TSW4 release, not really, at least not till the day had a Freudian slip and created a folder in win explore "TSW4 Class 66 service 6F46 stapleford sidings-cliffe hill stud farm 2023-06-18_15-30-17" see image below. Honestly did not even dawn on me for some time, seeing that this is a shared PC in our home.


The internet is full of hate at times, I also believe as others have stated about social media and have seen plenty that have been judged persecuted sentenced, and hung on social media walls. So I don't buy into all that is stated, it's deeds and actions that speak more than words, I would have rather had DTG give underpromised product messaging and over-deliver a product, but they did the opposite.
And so here we are...

This goes back some many years now, I did start to get into game modding, (yes sounding like a broken record "but hey my vinal ELO & Boston records are still good ") that was in days B4 FO4, I learned to fix a game fridge that made nuke cola into nuka quantum, and even added it to a player home that was made another very good modder "with his blessing" dabbled in nifscope and learned to a degree how to change skins with different .dds files. But life stepped in & more important matters needed my attention.

While I may not understand the UE engine and its editor, I would guess it's similar to GECK? I have watched a fair share of YT videos of others editing and creating with other well-known Train sim games, TrainZ being one, the hardest part is making all the assets. Once all that is done it's copy-paste, and change elevation as needed for the track that is & copy-paste cars and stuff like that, I would think, and I could be wrong here? But all the things that need scripting time is needed to get it working properly. All that was left unfinished or broken by DTG and only to move and work on TSW4 as they did, is a slap in the face to all that like TSW or would like to get into it. Including your s truly.

I praise the modding community and the talented modders who have made my game so much better and give mad respect to them, more so than DTG. Even Good ole FO3

 

I for one welcome our Fallout 3 modding overlords

 

Not going to happen. I did NOT buy TSW3 or any of the DLC for it. It was so very easy to not spend money on a substandard buggy product with very poor performance. As announced, TSW4 has no performance improvements so I will not spend a penny on an uncomfortably stuttering and bug filled game.

People like you told me I would eventually buy TSW3. I never did so what makes you think I am going to waste my money on TSW4 now?

Absolutely correct. I bought into the franchise with TSW2020 and then TSW2 (plus numerous DLC packs) and gave DTG the benefit of the doubt until they proved themselves absolutely unworthy of my trust or money.

I have bought the right to comment on DTG and the TSW franchise and do so on many different forums/review sites where my message to anyone reading is simple : Avoid DTG and TSW like the plague, they are just after your money and do not care about their customers.

Unpaid customer reviews actually hold a lot more value that the laughable hard sell nonsense from the [EDIT - Jan - Insulting] who seem painfully oblivious to the poor performance stuttering mess portrayed on their streams whilst fawning about how wonderful DTG are. It is not as if the free products they receive affect their opinions in any way... LOL

Talking about poor performance and stuttering, the latest streams from DTG desperately trying to push TSW4 are embarrassing to watch for more than a few minutes with the hosts seemingly blind to what is blatantly obvious to every viewer. It is an absolutely farcical approach from a pathetic joke of a company and its increasingly unwanted and widely mocked product.

 

Or from Fallout 4 - TSW5, Survival Mode.

 

Like TSW3 & 4? We've come a long way yet things remain the same

 

Yo clearly never got an Atari console when you were a kid

 

Good news everyone!

https://atari.com/products/atari-2600-plus

 

I'm both a Colecovision and Atari kid

 

I'm a spectrum 48k kid so I remember games without any graphics at all.......

 

Instruction 1: Move train forward 3 blocks

 

That was nobility for rich kids ...

I had to be happy with a ZX81 16k .....

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/lose-yourself-in-this-8-bit-train-driving-simulator-41362/

https://powersaurus.itch.io/cab-ride

 

I still have 2 spectrum+2's with the built in tape deck, after my original one broke I spent nearly two years trying to find a working one just to be able to play Evening Star again

 

Ah, those were the times. I´m amazed what prices they´re still calling for on ebay. €120,00 - 190?! Even for the ZX81. Wow, I should´ve kept mine years ago.

 

I even still have the beginners guide to hacking and writing code for the spectrum consoles, if you can even call them that lol, as well as a Amiga 500 and 600 and over 500 games for them on their floppy disks that they used.

 

You certainly can't. They were never consoles, but computers

In fact, I recall some kind of audio skit on a tape on a Crash magazine issue taking the pee out of console owners: "Consoles: computers for idiots who don't know how to use a keyboard." Charming.

EDIT: Just remembered exactly how that went: "Do you have trouble finding the 'any key' on a keyboard? Then buy a games console! Consoles: computers for idiots who don't know how to use a keyboard."

 

Ya might be right there rabbit,
ya know the Gan-Xers gotta watch the mind there.
I have been called worse, please remember My parents lived through WWII Mom was arrested for not having her papers one time, I'm a Hungarian = yupper hungry for many things, a Jew that was born in Romania, and grew up in Yonkers NY & New jersey, hung out in the Bronx & Brooklyn. And yes I'm a Bastard... Don't know what it is please use ya favorite search engine.

With all due respect, I'm unsure what post you are talking about, I do agree with you to a degree, getting hostile, vulgar, really nasty name-calling, cussing, that I did see in one thread that was lockedup, correct that is uncalled for, it's wrong, it does not lend anything to the conversation, no arguments from me, Yes this DTG Forums owned and operated by a publicly traded and if not "did not search it" a privately own company and make rules as it wants. But here is my stance any speech that is shut down, stifled, or banned is wrong, even the speech that we don't like. As I stated in a prior post I have over the years seen many people shut down, banded, judged persecuted, and figuratively hung in the public square of social media. Even those I did not agree with should not had that done to them.

If people don't like what I say, walk on by, but names are just that names, it is actions and deeds that count and those do not meet the meaning of the words spoken, then trust is lost and respect is not given. I learned a lot from my mom who had never spoken proper English, and who also never finished HS, even the day she passed away she imparted to me one of the biggest lessons. With that said, The one thing I don't like is being taken advantage of, I am guessing that is how many feel about the TSW4 release, yours truly to a point, but holding my tongue for now, to a degree that is.

But taking action to shut people down, because of a statement that was not vulgar, nasty, or full of cussing, I don't believe in that.
What I would rather hear is more truthful honest statements about what is to come TSW4, not Fluff or over-hyped info of what can be in time.
--Thankyou--

 

A couple of things. I guess they may be protecting a younger audience that may wander in here. And also there are many that can't handle words that are less than cotton candy fluffy, therefore speech gets shut down. This is a private space so really they could do whatever they want. I enjoy the laughs as long as it lasts.

 

Yes, you are correct, No argument here, I just wish they would not do such things. But yes I always enjoy a good laugh.

 

I couldn't give a flaming rats arse what people say on here, I also couldn't give a flaming elephant's arse about the views or opinions either, I want TSW4 and have bought it, the special edition too, and quite frankly the same process will happen with whatever game or product I want to buy, nobody will ever dictate my opinion or view on anything and of this franchise apart from me, it's really that simple.......

 

Why are so many rat and elephant arses on fire?

 

Some will know better, lets hope. As I haven’t bought TSW since TSW2 why they couldn’t just keep it the same, like TML are doing with the bus, albeit just as questionable as it’s still in Early Access (code for lazy and can’t be asked to finish it)

 

It's a good point about the language. My 8 year old daughter sometimes looks over my shoulder and I'd like her to see well argued points of view, funny answers etc rather than some of the overly aggressive offerings we sometimes see.
I saw a good quote the other day. "Dance like no one is watching, type like one day it'll be read out in court"...

 

I'll never forget when I purchased a version of Championship manager not aware that SI games had parted way and The Beautiful Game studio had basically cobbled together the game in a matter of weeks. Beautiful it certainly wasn't!!

 

I got FM21 last year. Started unemployed and took over Wealdstone in N London. Getting sucked in to that was a lot of fun!

 

Early Access if done well can see good results if brought to completion. Examples like The Forest and more recently Baldur's Gate 3 were early access titles that benefitted from the program. I always thought TSW would have been a much better game if it went through (properly!) an early access time. Plenty of community feedback building an incrementally better game. There are a lot of smart people with expertise and experience. Sure it's a years long process, but you still sell copies along the way. But would we have seen as many routes over the years? I'm guessing not? And if DTG's margins are thin it may not have worked out financially.

 

shiny new train game
strangely similar I see
every year the same

 

The honest solution to this issue is transparency. DTG need to be transparent about the future of TSW, will we get paid yearly updates. Will we get bug fixes, etc. I feel like with more transparency a lot of issues will be solved because one thing I’ve noticed is that communication in these forums is very 50/50

 

IIRC, wasn't the "company line" during TSW2 that TSW3 wasn't going to be a thing, at least any time soon? Look how that turned out. I defended TSW2 back then, and the "haters" turned out right after all. Either Dovetail flip-flopped or they weren't telling the truth to begin with back then.

But does it really matter to most even if they say it will/won't be a yearly (or bi-yearly) thing going forward? And would people, even the ones that will buy TSW4, take such a statement at a face value anyway? I mean, it seems there are still plenty that are okay with the yearly release model (at least if these forums are anything to go by, we are supposed to be the loud minority after all). I suppose Dovetail have done the maths, and seen that it's worth doing, even if they get flak for it.

 

If I am going to get enjoyment out of it and the routes interest me, then yes I purchase it. If I don't, I won't, I buy everything on merit, whether it is a box of eggs or a car. So I am not too fussed if it is a paid upgrade or not. I think they should have made the core a free upgrade or maybe a lower price paid upgrade, but they haven't, so be it. I think as you say, DTG quite likely knew they would get some flak, they know the sales figures and this forum is a microcosm of those I am sure.

I suspect many of those banging the "DTG are evil" and those who buy it are "simping fanboys drum", will surrepticiously end up with it at some point. At some point a route will come out that will be of interest which will be too tempting to many, especially when the base version comes up in a sale at a knock down price.

 

I'm interested in the criteria you look for in a box of eggs (besides there being eggs in the box)

 

Not being cracked?

 

Climate change, innit?

 

That, or because they started buying DTG’s products.

 

Now, if it was pants that were on fire.....

 

The best Message In this forum imo, esp the drove trains part

 

Well, I did get TSW3 during a sale (against my better judgement) and "ended up" with it for just shy of 2 hours before refunding.

Another problem with having a short "virtual shelf life" like TSW as of late is that there may not necessarily be many or any DLC released in that time that interests one enough to get the game (and this is before taking into account what issues those DLC will have). Sure, some TSW3 content interested me like TSG's German route. But there were really too many modern and short British EMU routes, IIRC. So, I don't feel like I've missed much with TSW3 (well, maybe headache!). Maybe TSW4 will be better, at least there's finally another (diesel) British Rail route coming. If they'd finally make another fallen flag or period American route like Clinchfield that would certainly pique my interest. But then I think, they'll just pull up with TSW5 the next year, so why not wait another year to see if that's the case?

 

Lol I always check for broken ones, also are they free range?

 

Excellent point. You certainly summed up neatly how I feel about the situation.

 

For me personally, it's not about "wanting things for free", I'm quite happy to pay for a quality product but for me in the last 2 years, TSW has not been a quality product worth the high price tags of the routes and trains. Various bugs and problems still run rampant and features such as multiplayer are still MIA. I will be holding onto my hard-earned until DTG actually pull their finger out and start releasing quality products. TSW4 not even a year after TSW3? That's a problem.

 

Yes I'm with you and others that feel this way 100%

--Full Disclosure-- I did get TSW4...
I hemmed and hawed, I really did have a debate with myself, crazy!? I know in many ways, I even bounced ideas off my daughter, she does the video editing and has gotten pretty good with DaVinci, but I thought long and hard, I went from disbelief to being upset to outright anger, but I bit my tongue, for if not I would have gone off on a very distasteful tongue lashing. In a way, I still am very conflicted, upset, and just a little mad but I have so much invested, monetary as well as time with TSW2 & 3 much of what I have now was purchased through third-party key vendors and got at fair to reduced price as well as through the epic store for TSW2 and some TSW3.

And I like and enjoy TSW2 err TSW3 I have fun and for the most part they look good, but could have been much better, with Reshade installed and ini settings provided by and from the modding community have also made the game so much better. I'm still tweaking the ini settings blindly kind of as I learn also, so why this post now, the answer is in the post I quoted.

But what has really gotten my feathers ruffled more than anything with the release of TSW4, is all the promises "Yes I know this has been stated many times already". As well as some of the updates, patches, and the bypassing of issues that needed proper fixes, that were not done or that were done and were changed to be shorter, I did post to the SOS patch update feedback thread While I didn't expect a direct reply, It would have been nice hear something, yet it was met with silence, and if DTG has not understood. Or just need to hear it again, the biggest reason why many are so upset is part of this message.

I bring this up here for those who may be new here and to make the point there is still much that is broken with TSW2 & 3 and that DTG needs to really hear, as they stated all is read by DTG, but do they care? It would seem that do not completely care? Or is it that the thought process is Well with TSW4 it will make things better? And they honestly believe that?.
I did not watch the FIVE Hour live stream, after it was said and done I scrubbed through it, and the first thing I thought of with the THREE hours of rusted crusted old RR with dust floating around, that symbolized the end of the death of TSW3, out with OLD in with the new.


DTG and Skyhook just now are in talks of the fix or patch with the PS5 Crash on the MML-EMT DLC, the question is why now because all work was pushed into TSW4. Again DTG, it's just another reason why people are upset. It's Good to hear that the two are talking, it would be better to see some action. The people with Glowie Hair Ya know bleaching ya hair to much is not good
Oh the MML-EMT DLC gets better than this, see the video link in my signature...

 

One thing I will add, is that the more you play TSW, whichever version, the harder it is to go back to TSC.
I tried to get a run going yesterday evening on two or three different routes in TSC and it seems flat, almost two dimensional, compared to TSW. Came off and fired up TSW, the Royal Train run came round on Peak Forest Journey mode. Despite a couple of SPAD’s and the less than sterling steam physics (somewhat tempered now by keeping dampers at no more than 25%), I was having a blast. TSW definitely seems 3D compared to TSC.

I’m not quite at the point of uninstalling TSC as there is still stuff we will probably never see in TSW. But the core programme is only 5 or 6 years younger than MSTS and starting to show.

 

I'm getting really excited. It's been a while since I have played some new routes. I need my fix What I've seen so far looked impressive. TSW4 also brought a lot of discussion about other train simulators, how platforms differ and how gaming was in the past. Looking at where we are now on consoles It's great to have a game like TSW.

This time they got the marketing right. I really hated the Look-we-got-thunder-marketing for TSW3. I like the Look-we-got-trains-marketing for TSW4. The new routes look good from those we have seen. I can't imagine them screwing up with their hometurf so If they can keep the stuttering and annoying bugs to a minimum this might the best version of TSW4 so far.

I'm not a train purist so I will probably have a good time. If you have access to a lot of train simulators to compare there will always be a lot to complain about but until someone can point me to a better train simulator than TSW on current gen consoles this is the best train simulator period.

 

Depends on which route. There's a lot of routes featuring better scenery than TSW, and there's models that are just as detailed as their TSW counterparts or look better (AP Class 37, 158). In fact some distant scenery looks pretty off in TSW, cardboard trees on blank hills. And the trees don't change shape a zillion times, I find I can enjoy the "calmer" scenery rendering much better on TSC.
Just finished a full run with my Class 40, driving the "Whistling Pixie" train from Penzance to Plymouth, having more fun than on the shorter TSW WCL.

And you have to give it credit for being a well planned game engine considering its age and what's it still capable of. It was done by the guys who made MSTS after all, SIMIS aka Kuju. RSC/DTG enhanced it and kept it alive, and currently there's a complete code overhaul in progress.

I find TSW has not affected my TSC enjoyment at all. The inline editor and customizabilty, longer routes, and the mass of content and being free to do what you want is more important than UE shaders for me. And using the free camera I can explore the outside and "walk" around as well - not being limited by invisible walls.

The timetable (unfortunately only really done well on a few selected routes) is too repetitive for me, I prefer well crafted scenarios which tell stories, and there's a lot of them especially by Coasty or Not.Silent on the workshop, with so much going on around you instead of running on emtpy tracks and deserted stations in TSW. All tracks are usable and you're not restricted to a few predefined paths, so TSC is the better simulator for me. And the trackside camera, letting you watch your train while climbing a grade in notch 8 in a cinematic style, the "5" passenger cam to switch to passenger view or caboose while still controlling the train.

And people that criticise TSC for the few scenarios per DLC always forget the QuickDrive, which gives you a different experience every time due to random AI and selecting your path and starting time.

Also I think UE is not the be-all-end-all. Arma 2's (from 2009, proprietary game engine) scenery beats UE for me. And as much as I'm looking forward to the TSW editor, I'm aware it will not be as accessible as the TSC editors, and stuff will take longer to do than on TSC.

 

What TSC users all seem to forget is that the fate of TSC depends on the success of TSW. Some YouTuber mentioned something about DTG and money and he's right. DTG got bought by a company that on itself is not doing so well at the moment. They can pull the plug or downsize DTG when ever they want to. I don't want to scare anyone but that is something that might happen even If TSW or TSC or what ever game DTG makes does good. Focus did not buy DTG so the CEO of Focus can play train simulators (I guess, we have seen weirder things lately). It's all about money. Focus wants to see money. Formats like TSW can be a good revenue stream with its yearly upgrades and constant flow of new DLC. Sure you can hate such a format but Focus is not looking for games that makes train enthousiasts dreams come true and that costs almost nothing to the enthousiast by heavily supporting with free updates. Focus is looking for ways to make money. TSC benefits from TSW doing good on consoles. I guess TSW benefits also from their experience with TSC so as long as TSW performs well on consoles the chances that Focus looks at DTG first when they need to reduce spending is a tad lower and we all get to play our respective "best" train simulator

Sure everyone can come up with a better plan that will make train simulators more popular but let's be honest we can't all be as a genius as the richest man on earth #sarcasm

 

You're right, but I'm a player and how they run their business it not my problem - I'm a customer not a shareholder. Of course it's about the money, I'm working for money too. TSC still does well, having a massive catalogue of DLC which continues to sell. And the DX12 upgrade is a welcome surprise, they are taking their time offering a year-long running public beta branch now.

And even if TSC was cancelled (which is unlikely to happen imho), I already have more content than I could ever play - so I welcome new stuff but don't really depend on it. That's one of the reasons you hardly see huge threads on upcoming routes or endless speculations over on the TSC forums, we're not in need.

Each sim I play I enjoy for different reasons, TSC (since 2015), TSW (since 2016's Heavy Haul beta), Zusi 3 and Run8. Even OpenRails. TSW is now almost seven years old (probably SPG development already started in 2015), and it's clear to see DTG are learning as they are going with TSW being the first train simulator they've developed all on their own.

 

It's not about canceling one of the two. If they don't have to take a closer look at DTG nothing get's cancelled

 

I'd say considering all the outstanding issues with older DLC, we definitely need the Preservation Crew back - it seems Matt is doing all of the fixes on his own, which is very much appreciated but normally not the Executive Producer's job. Get Adam back from Scamhook