Loco Railpool Vectron - Feedback Thread

You most likely ran into a "catch 22" by incorrectly using the Quick Release.

If you get a Sifa penalty brake application you need to
(a) Acknowledge the Sifa alarm
(b) momentarily move the train brake lever to Quick Release.
That's it. Nothing more needs to be done except let the train brakes release (takes up to slightly more than a minute for long freight trains).

Holding the train brake in Quick Release is really, really bad. That will overcharge the distributor control reservoirs in the wagons to maybe 6 bar (or whatever pressure the brake pipe reaches). As soon as you let go of the train brake the brake pipe pressure quickly reduces to whatever the locomotive control reservoir (different from the control reservoir mentioned above), typically 5.0-5.2 bar. Now you have up to 1 bar worth of pressure differential in the distributors in the wagons. You can now leave the game running for 5 minutes while the control reservoirs (painfully) slowly settle back to 5 bar so that the brakes release.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot. I think TSW4 has a "reset physics" button that you can use if you don't want to wait for the control reservoirs to settle back to normal.

 

Sorry, it was more then just one consist, you are right. In fact I was only thinking on the monster train. But there are a few more that ran entirely in G…

 

Does other people experience the same bug with the new freight wagons from the Vectron DLC?

Is the picture visible now? The folder was set on private.

 

you can't attach images here, it just shows a missing file icon and "IMG"

 

Just learn to drive

 

okay apparently images can now be attached

 

I can't post any pics

 

nvm you can't in player feedback section

 

then the guy above somehow did anyway. that's odd. let me try putting a link instead
[Image removed]
for some reason that works.

 

The brake force in "Schnellbremsung" is prototypical according to the data I have.
In R-brake Schnellbremsung will apply 150 kN brake force in 3-5 seconds or 3.7 bar(*) brake cylinder pressure with the "SOS" button.
In P-brake the timing is the same but the brake force is 80 kN and the brake cylinder pressure is 2.5 bar, respectively.
In G-brake the brake force and brake cylinder pressures are the same as in P-brake but the timing is 15-20 seconds in Schnellbremsung and 18-30 seconds in "SOS".

The difference in brake capability is reflected in the different "Bremsgewicht" (braked weight) printed on the side of the locomotive body or inside the cab.
In G-brake you are not allowed more than 90 km/h and in all modes the final maximum allowed speed will depend on the trains "BrH" (Bremshundertstel or braked weight percentage).

(*): The maximum brake cylinder pressure in R-brake is speed dependent. Above 170 km/h the maximum brake cylinder pressure is 2.5 bar (same as in P). In contrast to the BR101 there is no obvious indicator of this "hohe abbremsung" (high brake regime).

Hope that helps!

 

How come you are quite active on the DTG fourms this weekend?

 

let me tell you a secret.

I hate math.

but I kinda understand all that anyways, thanks.

 

Have you already noted the issues with the second cab of the Vectron? just so I know

 

Yes, I posted this last night. The leading bogies on the VTG wagons have a graphic bug that show through the body of the wagon.

The EWS wagons had a similar bug on release of TSW3 and it was fixed within the first week.

 

Vectron
TSW4
Xbox series x
Running at 4k 120hz.

The Vectron has really bad graphical issues with both of the right hand side MFD's in the drivers cab, the outer edges of the screens glitch / shimmering so bad. I have tried turning off the MFD's, switching screens but nothing changes. I have also changed my resolution down to 1440p @ 60hz and the same glimmer / glitching of the MFD's happens. There is also glitching / cropping on the left hand side MFD in the top left corner of the screen.

I also have TSW4 on PC and the Vectron cab MFD's are okay without any issues.

I watched a Vectron first look stream by The British Ace ( Ambassador ) who was running the Xbox series x for the stream and he also had the left hand side MFD's shimmering / glitching bad, he made a comment about not knowing what was going on with the MFD screens.

So what were the Xbox beta testers actually doing during the beta testing of the Vectron??? Eyes wide shut as usual. I mean I know I'm not the only one who has this problem, The British Ace also has it and you can go and watch his stream which is available on his Youtube channel to see what I mean by the bad graphical issues with the screens. I cant drive it now because it actually starts to hurt my eyes too much when driving the loco.

Well done DTG for testing the loco out on Xbox before releasing it to the public.







m

 

Alex. Thanks to you and the team for the extra support.

 

I have the same issues as Skdmark above.
The right and upper right screens in particular suffer from really bad shimmering at times.

I believe its TOD4 related.

 

Promised some references. Here they are.

PZB inop when reverser in reverse:
Ril-483-0101_zur-Stellungnahme-data.pdf (dbnetze.com)
Page 10, (10)

"Störbetrieb" and what that looks like:
rw_483-0111-data.pdf (dbnetze.com)
Page 16 (page number of the PDF document, not the ril).

Its all in German, but I guess google can help translate. If there are more questions, pls let me know.

A general remark to the Vectron, though. I believe that it displayes things a bit different to other locos. For example, I am aware that in some cases, it will not flash 1000hz in "Störbetrieb", like other locos will do.

Also, a final remark to the HUD. I have noticed that the PZB instructions on there do not always correspond with the indication in the cab. I would be careful to only follow the HUD (Which I never do, anyway)

 

This is a bug on the Vectron. It allows PZB in reverse logic-wise, but the screens act correctly *sweating emoji*

 

Today was my first day with TSW4 (well, actually only my first couple of hours, as I started only really late). Of course, the first journey I did was with the Vectron. I drove service 44115 from Bludenz to Wolfurt, both parts in one go.

First section was no problem, appart from the neutral section, which came as a surprise Somehow managed, though. I added my 11 Habbiins in Frastanz. Here I noticed a problem with my PZB settings, as, when I moved the reverser back to forward, PZB was indicating "55", instead of "70". Checked the setting and this was still in "M". After selecting "U" and then "M" again, it was back to normal and indicated the "70", as expected.

As my train added quite alot of weight, I had to adjust my brake settings to LL (loco in brake mode "G" and first 5 waggons also in "G"). Man, I just love that this kind of settings is possible! Enjoyed this from the moment it was possible with DRA, such an immersion boost!

The rest of the Journey was no problem either. I did notice some minor things, especially differences between cab1 and cab2 (ie, I believe the light for the "Federspeicherbremse" only works in one of the cabs), but nothing major! Also, I belive the "Befehl 40" indication is missing when hitting the 2000Hz.

As a general feedback, I am especially happy with the sounds and the simulated physics! The way this loco sounds is quite good, in my ears, going over joints at low speed, horns, bogies going into a curve, pitch of motors, slipi, but also watching the individual traction motors do when slipping, all the brake logic like automatic "Angleicher", etc. All very exciting stuff

So, would it be wise to switch PZB off during reverse while the bug is not fixed? I am just asking, because I did not have an issue during above mentioned servce (appart from the "55" issue reported above). And I was running through active 2000Hz magnets on reverse. Magnets were on both sides of the track but I was not stopped...

BTW, talking above about wheel slippage. Does sanding have an effect with the Vectron? I didnt feel much difference but am not sure.

More to come when I spend some more time with it, hopefulyy rather sooner then later

 

The PZB bug was easy to fix (note, this is not an indication that it will be fixed in the next patch DTG releases).

The PZB mode issue you had is something I have never encountered. PZB Mode does have keybind support implemented (you can cycle through the modes without ever touching the screen). Any chance you accidentally pressed one of these? The mismatch between the CCD PZB indication and the settings page is definitely problematic though. Do you remember any more details about what led up to you encountering this issue?

Yes, I would recommend this. Basically PZB is still active "under the hood" but without display indications. Not a great situation.

Cab 2 seems to have some issues. You're not the only one that has reported this. I will take a look at the Parking Brake light. Was the "Befehl 40" indication missing on the CCD (right display) or the HUD (or both perhaps)?

Sanders work, but might need some tweaking. It's harder to gauge their effectiveness on the Vectron though since the locomotive will do all kinds of stuff to lower the tractive effort (even lowering the target effort per traction motor).

I'm quite satisfied with the automatic overcharge/"Angleicher". I redesigned the system completely since the older locos uses a "time reservoir" that raises the brake pipe pressure without affecting the internal electronic/analog control reservoir pressure. If you watch a cab ride of the Vectron where you can see the displays you will notice that the arrow next to the brake pipe pressure gauge (the target pressure) actually rises as well. This is implemented in the game and even visible on the HUD (the EQ value will rise after releasing the brakes).
The main advantage of the new implementation is that it actually overcharges the brake pipe about 0.2 bar for wildly different types of formations. That was an issue with the old automatic overcharge. This will help releasing the brakes on long trains faster.

 

Simple problem. I can't figure out how to close the Vectron cab doors from the outside. At track level, there's nothing to click on. And if you climb the ladder, closing the door pushes you inside the cab. (I was able to close the door using one of the other cameras though.)

 

I was stopping towards a red signal, so had a 1000Hz influence. 1000Hz light was already extinguished, I think, before I came to a stop. I left the PZB on, put the reverser into revers. I pushed my consist towards the 11 wagons, left the reverser in revers, while I got out on foot to couple the train together. I moved back to the loco, put the reverser into forward and then I noticed the 55 on the CCD. After I corrected the PZB mode I started to change the brake settings. Also, as mentioned above, while pushing back, I did drive over at least two 2000Hz (one on each side of the track) magnets without any influence, which does not sound it should do that, knowing about the bug you mentioned above...

I only used the minimal HUD, so, I only noticed it on the display. The lines underneath did change and indicated correctly the change, however, the white "Befehl 40" while driving over the 2000Hz magnets did not light up. But, another thought: The lines could have changed due to a distance thing, which was exactly at the signal. Could it be that the 2000Hz magnets do not work at all and it is a line side bug? This would explain the above mentioned behavior, that the PZB did not act in reverse while driving over 2000Hz magnets (knowing about the PZB bug you mentioned)?! I may not have time to test today, but it could be considered...

Thanks for the confirmation. Also, I guess (like other locos do as well), it operates the sanders automatic anyway, during wheel slippage?! So, my manual intervention will not have shown any difference, anyway...

Thank you very much for the details of this loco and also letting us know. After driving it for the first time I do think it currently is the best we have in game. I hope that DTG uses the groundwork for future work and new locos, maybe even enhancing old locos

 

I recall the TRAXXs doing that as well occasionally. Seems to be something fundamental in the setup.

Noticed that as well while driving on DRA.

Agreed. The Vectron is certainly the high point of TSW4. I did encounter an issue with SIFA on PS5 though. You can only reset SIFA when the audible alarm is already sounding. I know that some former East German locos had such a SIFA setup, but I’d be surprised if the Vectron does. So I assume that’s not intended behaviour?
Apart from that though, the Vectron is fantastic and feels leaps and bounds ahead of anything else. Reminds me of when the Br 101 was first released.

 

Maybe I missed it or something, but I'm very surprised nobody mentioned that the main display should be in the middle. Photos and videos freely available online easily confirm this. I'm guessing the right one can be set to show the main display information as a backup, but it should absolutely be possible to just have the speedometer and indicators on the center display. Even TSW 3, where the Vectron is full of issues, gets this right.

Another issue is the signal light override – it simply doesn't work. It is at least my understanding that this should override whatever you set in the display, and it should also work without the cab active. But when I set it to signal lights, they just turn off. This is particularly annoying in the Special Delivery Scenario, where realistically, you need to turn on the red lights at the new end of the train every time you uncouple a locomotive (and ideally, turn on red lights at the front of that loco, too). And this should work with the override, but because it doesn't work, you have to activate the cab and set the lights using the display. How would you even do this if you had to tow a locomotive with its battery turned off?!

 

You can switch the right and middle display in the simulation.

However as far as I remember DTG Matt mentioned in the stream that the standard display setup is like how it is currently done in TSW 4. But I can also find no reference to that in videos and pictures available online.

Also ZUSI Simulator put the speedometer in the middle display.

 

Apparently the set-up in TSW4 is the default Railpool operator configuration.

I have never seen it myself. All 3 of the main screens are settup differently from the norm.

 

creds to cwf.green for posting the pic on another thread

 

Interesting, I have never seen the Befehl 40 missing before, at least not noticed it. I am actually always looking out for this before letting go of the switch. However, I also usually use the newest loco that is available to choose from when selecting the service. Maybe some older models have not implemented it?

EDIT: Ok, forget my comment, just re-read your post, you are pointing to 2000Hz magnets not working, which they obviously are on DRA, but it is also missing in the Vectron on that route, hence, misunderstood on my side what you were saying...

 

If the battery was off, where would the electricity for the lights come from? You'd use stick-on or metal end of train sign.

 

Some functions are connected to the battery before the battery switch. I don't know about the Vectron precisely, but usually this includes the interior lighting, anti-skid computer, and marker lights.
And even if this variant of the Vectron doesn't have the signal lights directly on the battery, and even if the switch doesn't work the way I think it does, there should be some way to get it to work in some capacity.

 

Thanks for the explanation, I did not know there were variants that use the right display as a default, and I'm sorry about the way I commented. Also thanks to steamylocoman and cwf.green for the image.
I also genuinely hadn't realized you can switch the displays in the simulation. But that's on me.

 

Signal lights override switch is bugged unfortunately. But the cause of the bug is known.

 

Hmm. Fairly sure I did. Either that or I pressed Shift+A which definitely also presses the indicator. (or Ctrl+A one of both).
I'll be driving it later, I'll see

 

Can someone from DTG or a fellow poster please inform me what the three Railpool BR 193 Vectron achievements are, as I cannot find a list anywhere. Thank you in advance.

 

There are no achievements for the Vectron.

 

The Vectron I have just been trying out properly for the first time, it would be an absolute brilliant loco if not for the constant long standing issue of cab flickering present in about 7-8 places directly on the cab in view of the driver.

sounds are sounding brilliant definitely of note on this train but the flickering bug not been addressed despite it being on a lot of trains is a massive letdown.

Xbox Series X

Edit: I’ve uploaded this issue as report before with the Acela to dovetail support, but the issue is still present on the Acela to this day, I’ll get a video of where it is primarily on the Vectron and post it here.

 

theirs the video (unlisted only Available here, the constant flicker is on the 2 right hand screens (top & bottom) going all round every button on them.

 

Just comming out of Service 43361 at 02:02 on Vorarlberg. Quite a heavy fright train with 2.600t total weight.

Question to cwf.green, I noticed that the loco was set up in brake mode G, however, the rest of the train was in P. I got out and changed the whole consist to G. I know that you are generally programming the trains according to what they should be in in real life (at least you did it for DRA at the time). In Germany I know that the train would be run in G (even if the Fahrplan could be filed in P/R, hence 100kph is correct), however, are the rules in Austria so much different that it would be realistic to run it with P brakes?

Another small issue I saw, the energy monitor (displaying the energy consumtion) only seems to display the energy used of the lead engine (as this service is a double tracktion). I do have material about the ES64U2, which tells me that it should always be the energy used of all working vehicles. Is this different in the Vectron or simply not implemented? Fun fact: for the journey of this service, I have used 443kWh, however, I have given off 488kWh... Talking about efficiency Its probably realistic, as you are basically constantly braking driving this direction.

Last thing, I need to talk about the lights. According to the rules, the top light should only have approx half the light intensity of the bottom two lights in normal beam. To be precise, bottom lights up to 700cd, top light up to 300cd. Also, and I would guesstimate that this is roughly correctly modeled, the lights must still have approx 40cd in a horizontal angle of 45 degrees.

When it comes to high beam, they have up to 16.000cd. No angle is specified, however, in order to achieve this I assume you must bundle the beam quite close together (without beeing an expert)...

In the TSW4 model, I have noticed an extremenly wide opening angle of the light cone when in high beam (horizonatlly approx 60 degrees, I guess). Low beam is by far not as wide, which I think is absolutely wrong. The high beam light should be much more focused towards a point on the tracks far in front of the loco. Also, I dont think the top light should have a high beam setting, does it (I dont know, though). This set up obviously leads to a total white out when driving in misty conditions. I know that this has been discussed in other threads, but looking into this a bit more I am assuming that the current set up is not realistic.

Abblend by OpenMinded posted Sep 24, 2023 at 10:58 PM

Aufblend by OpenMinded posted Sep 24, 2023 at 10:58 PM

PS: sorry for the messy pictures. Still learning the media implementation...

 

Thanks for the report

1. I was allowed (and given some new core functions, thanks DTG!) to implement a reworked preset algorithm for the brake mode selectors. It was based on your revised table ("Merkblatt_Bremsstellung_en") so thank you for creating that
The script does not support presetting "LL" though. The issue is that AI trains can couple and split up formations before the player which could mean that you end up with "G" spread out at random places in the train because that part was the front of a previous LL AI train.
In the end I felt that having to set 5-6 wagons to "G" was much better than the risk of having to check each wagon for sneaky "G"'s.

The train in your example is (if the script works correctly) only containing wagons that weigh more than 40t so the correct configuration would be loco and 5 first wagons in "G". At least if I understood the document correctly

2. Interesting information regarding the energy counter. That makes sense and is probably true for the Vectron as well (although there are definitely many differences between the 193 and the 182, blended braking and brake boost being one of them). I will ask the experts

3. Regarding the highbeam/signal lights all I can say is that I am aware of the issues.

 

On PS5 the buttons around the centre screen of the Vectron cab are inoperable apart from the ones along the top edge. Amongst other things this means the brightness of that screen can’t be adjusted.

 

Thanks for reminding me! You may remember that the original file I provided contained an error, in which it looked like that the second pre-condition for this category trains to run in LL would be the UIC-AK coupling. This somehow stuck with me... However, you are absolutely correct, we corrected it with the translated file, mentioned by you! Good that there are people who can remind me on my own write ups

To all that are wondering...
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...trains-realistically.44532/page-6#post-410188

 

It does not. I'd say pretty much all German locos do not have automatic sanding during wheel slip. I think some EMUs do have that feature when in emergency braking. The way it was told to me is that sanding can cause problems with the track circuit, so you want this to be manually applied only. In emergency braking it's more important that the train stops in as short a distance as possible, so that takes precedence.

EDIT: Removed the part about sand being a conductor or insulator in different situations. While that may be true, it's the insulating aspect that is dangerous (the locomotive might "disappear").

 

It may happen that during heavy sandblasting, the track circuit will not be closed at the road crossing. Then the train passes through an open road crossing.

 

Good point, I seem to remember a accident or near accident because of sand insulation of tracks. However, you sometimes wonder… German Railways don’t seem to work without sand. It’s part of every pre check to make sure you have enough sand on board. But I did not know that automatic sanding is not more widely used. I seem to remember that I was told that. Maybe the views on sanding have changed in the 2000s at some point?

 

I wrote a little paragraph of things that don't seem right already but I'll do it again but a bit better for constructive feedback/criticism.

First the positive: the Vectron is lovely, sound is realistic, controls are advanced, everything is perfect. there is nothing else to say, it is an absolute Meisterwerk.
however, there are some issues I noticed. I wanted to list them so DTG can, when one of the team sees this, note these things and check them and what to do about it.
First off, well some people told me it's realistic but it still doesn't feel right to me; the brakes. they are a bit weak. for single loco runs I might rather use the direct brake, alright, but then there's also the fact that the normal train brake responds like 2-3 seconds later, in some cases even too late. maybe theres something doable on this, all other loco brakes behave "normally".
Then there are two things with the second cab, 1st issue being the cab light switch, when moving it towards the player to turn on the cab lights, it actually goes towards the windshield to turn on the reading light, and vice versa.
There's also the issue that when pressing the left door button in the 2nd cab, actually the right doors of the cars behind open, and vice versa. it's like the same door control opposition issue like we had on the 182 with IC coaches, which Matt told us would get fixed at some point. well I hope this issue gets fixed too somewhen.

Lovely loco, the issues might be small but mildly annoying, but great job otherwise, DTG.