I have a quandary. I want the layers on ECML but am still reluctant to buy MML in its current state on PS5. I’m hoping it appears in a sale very soon because then I would probably just buy it but as I’m enjoying ECML a lot I would like the layers as soon as possible, if they add significantly to the route. My question is about what exactly in terms of extra traffic, playable services and hold-ups the MML layers actually add. Any info on the amount it adds would help me decide whether or not to spend the money now (while gritting my teeth) or to wait and continue without the layers until the price drops. Any advice would be gratefully received.
There's a handful of driveable HST services in the timetable, not sure about 158s. I would say wait for a sale on MML, I mean it's a nice enough route on PC at least but given the PS5 issues I would be reluctant to part with 30 notes.
There’s various sides to it IMO. Would I say a £30 DLC is worth it for layers? No. What I would say is worth it though is the 158, and IMO the MML section we’ve got is just too small in scope to enjoy it fully. I won’t make this a huge post about MML though since you’re asking specifically about ECML layers it provides. The 158 adds the bulk of the services, with an hourly run in each direction between Grantham & PBO. While it is nice to stretch the legs on the 158, it’s not the most exciting run (30 mins at 75mph), however it’s different to what you can do with it in MML. I think the biggest impact this layer has (after the gameplay) is having stuff on the slow lines which you can overtake, IMO stuff like this always adds more to the experience of driving a high speed train. The 158 also has various AI services dotted across the map, but you’ll only see them at stations as they leave the map almost instantly. The HST from MML adds 3 or 4 services, which take 2 hours to complete, one of the services is split into 2 parts - you’re basically driving this a few miles at a time and having to pull into a siding before being allowed to carry on again. The other use for the HST is that it’s used to populate Doncaster Works, it makes up the bulk of the stock you’ll see there. Overall I’d say MML has a significant effect on ECML, but I think I’d go with wait for a sale, personally I can’t advocate for Skyhook & what they’ve done with MML, they talked the talk then dropped the ball. Again though, the 158 is fantastic.
I would definitely be seeing the purchase as an expensive loco DLC for the 158 and its layers. The overtaking and being overtaken making a four track section of the line a better experience is what I’m after, as well as a good use for the 158 which is said to be very good, even if MML isn’t up to scratch. Thanks for the info on the services.
IMO it's fun doing the 158 services on the slow lines and seeing the Azumas flying past on the fast. Even watching them with the AI driving is fun. Way I see it is more layers I've got installed the busier the routes are which makes it feel more alive. I would however wait until it's on sale though you'll get more bang for your buck as the saying goes.
MML was actually one of my most played routes until recently, but that was on TSW3 with mods installed. Personally I don't think it's worth it just for the layers. Going back to it on TSW4 without mods just put me off. So as you've said, it's an expensive loco DLC. Nothing much wrong with the locos themselves and I like any chance to drive an HST, but I would definitely wait for a sale unless Skyhook do come up with a decent update and I really don't have much confidence that will happen.
Alongside the ECML layers there's also the layering on SEHS (if you own it) that makes St Pancreas look a lot busier than when that route was launched
I’m going to wait for the next sale to see if I can save a few pounds when I buy it. If it’s not in the next sale I’ll probably buy it anyway to avoid waiting too much longer. Thanks for all the help in making this tough decision easier. I’m also hoping for the Glossop route in the next sale. Fingers crossed.
You're wise to wait for sales on MML and Glossop. I haven't paid the full price of $40/£30 for any route in the last 2 years. It's too much for what we're getting with recent offerings. Maybe future routes like Preston- Ormskirk will be the exception. That route is apparently more than one push and go loco A to B. Might encourage DTG to offer more for the moolah in future. Glad you're enjoying ECML. Can't see it myself but we all have different pov's.
I have MML and don't think it is that bad, sure there are some bugs which do seem to have taken an age to fix. The revised timetable, which was my main bugbear with it is a great improvement. The stock is well modelled.
I think that´s because you´re on PC and enjoy a fix that never went to consoles. On (my) PS5 you can´t hardly finish a run without seeing a hard crash to desktop. And PS5 is the OP´s platform IINM. So, yes after paying full price for this DLC in order to support what was thought a heroic recovery attempt, it became the biggest regret ever. And now only God knows if and when Skyhook and DTG intends to release a fix for the other 66.6% of their player base. Given the track record and the ongoing TSW4 launch disaster ...... I´m more inclined to kiss it goodbye. And I´m not alone.
As others have stated MML does add a bunch of static HST sets and power cars at Doncaster however I've noticed that their inclusion severely reduces the performance at Doncaster and causes the game to lag heavily sometimes. I'd say wait for it to go on sale it's a decent route after all the bug fixes and I like the 158 but it's far from perfect and still crashes on PS5
I personally think it is worth getting MML for the ECML layers. i recently switched from PS4 Pro (no MML layers on ECML) to PS5 (full MML layers on ECML).. and the difference is huge. The route feels much more alive, and even just driving the 801 seeing the 158 around makes the runs even more interesting. the MML Class 158 appears as follows: Doncaster - AI at platform 5 for Gainsborough/Lincoln/Spalding/Peterborough services Newark Flat Crossing - AI over the crossing from Newark Castle to Lincoln Newark Northgate - AI at Platform 3 for Newark Northgate to Lincoln services Grantham - AI mostly at platform 4 (some later evening services on platform 3) for Nottingham - Skegness services Grantham - DRIVEABLE services between Grantham and Peterborough (Liverpool/Manchester/Sheffield/Nottingham/Norwich services) Peterborough - AI services towards Sleaford/Lincoln/Gainsborough/Doncaster Peterborough - DRIVEABLE services between Peterborough and Grantham (Liverpool/Manchester/Sheffield/Nottingham/Norwich services) the MML route itself, on its own, and in my opinion, not worth it.. it is by far the most unstable route in the game and still crashes (even on PS5) to this day on a significantly regular basis. It's just not enjoyable due to the unpredictability of whether you'll actually be able to complete a service. but for layers for ECML, having seen both the timetable with and without MML layers, i think it's worth it, and wouldn't do without them now i've seen them. hope that helps!
