Gospel Oak To Barking Riverside Preview Stream Thoughts - An Actual Solid Dtg Route?

Ok - I've played 6 or so services on this route now (mostly 710s but one freight as well) and spent some time exploring on foot so I've got a reasonable feel for it.

The scenery is dense and detailed, as good as I think we could ever realistically expect from TSW: Top-notch, very few issues (missing PIS at Upper Holloway and the inability to spawn on foot at Ripple Lane Yard being two I can think of straight away).

The 710 is (as far as I can tell) wonderfully represented, stuffed full of detail, sounds great to my ears (although I'm not familiar with them IRL) and seems so far bug-free.

The timetable is extremely close to what you would see in reality, with the notable absence of AI traffic at Barking so it's predictably dead in that particular spot.

In other words, everyone who worked on this project deserves a big round of applause for creating a realistic (and relatively bug-free) representation of the route.

However... I don't think I'd recommend this route to anyone who wasn't a specific fan of slow commuter EMU routes.

All of the 710 regular services are, in practice, identical (as per real life). None of the five I've played so far have turned up any adverse signals other than those you'd expect from going into bay platforms. Every single 710 that you sit in will have the same stopping pattern for a passenger service. There is very little variety despite the timetable creator's efforts to add some interest to the route by being incredibly diligent with ECML and Gospel Oak AI.

Exacerbating this issue for me is that Suffragette Line marries one of the fastest accelerating (if not *the* fastest) units in the game with some lengthy sections at very slow speed. The 710 is the Formula One car of the railway world but here it's on a route that sits at just 45mph for the most part, with an extended section at just 30mph (barely more than West Somerset Railway). I'm confident in saying that you'll spend less time 'on the power' here than almost any other route because it's so quick to reach line speed.

Freight (if you have the layers for it) does throw up many adverse signals as you're generally following a 710 service, but it's so slow that I'm not sure it will hold more than occasional interest (and we're now somewhat overfamiliar with the Class 66 too).

Ultimately all of these issues come down to a relatively staid and boring route choice. Having said that, if we can get this kind of quality on a route that is the UK equivalent of Rosenheim - Salzburg (ie. something of an intercity route, a decent length with many more layers and loco/service variety), we'll be collectively laughing - that would be absolutely incredible.

Perhaps the 710 is just a stepping stone to that kind of route, and that's the reason we've ended up with this particular route at this point in time? With DTG being as opaque as ever, we won't know for a few months until the next couple of UK routes come to pass. My fingers are firmly crossed.

tl;dr if you like slow commuter EMU routes and you're not bothered about the lack of variety, this route will absolutely tick all of your boxes. If you want something a bit deeper - I'd pass until a sale.

 

Very fair take.

It's not everyone's cup of tea but i'd love to see the Overground network extended in the future. The detailed scenery really sells it for me, and i'm personally a big fan of urban railroading (stops, starts, and all lol). I do have to agree that 30mph section is a bit painful ( there doesn't seem to be a tight curve there- maybe it's to protect some aging bridgework?) and it would be nice to get it up to full speed.

I don't know where else the 710 runs tbh. Anywhere it would run alongside the 700 we have and which also is crying out for a faster run?

 

There is the Lioness line/Watford DC line (partially represented as the Bakerloo Line)
There is the Liberty line/Romford-Upminster shuttle (a 2 mile route with 3 stations)
And there is the Weaver Line/Lea Valley Lines out of London Liverpool Street.

Unfortunately, the Aventra (let alone the 710) does not run anywhere the 700 does. The closest it gets is on the Suffragette line/GOBLIN where it passes under the ECML.

I do find it weird that DTG have put the 710 on the Mildmay line/North London Line at Gospel Oak, though. I thought that line was served exclusively by 378s.

 

Indeed, on the second 30mph section (the shortest one) the path is straight. If you notice, you're passing over an old bridge. I believe that's the reason.

 

The Mildmay Line does have 710s running on it occasionally but yes the line is pretty much served by the Class 378.

 

I've been looking at what people have been saying, and it's good that for the first time in a while DTG appear to have released a decent route. However the complaints of it not having much to do are reasons why I'd never buy a route like this expect at a very steep discount. No matter how well made it is, it's still a 13 mile route with one train (that I don't like very much) and not much else to do. The Train Simulator version has the entire North London Line and the West London Line and I think in practise the only way an inner suburban route like this can work long-term is if it is a network. In TS it is, and combined with the Watford DC line included in WCMLS and the South London Network route there's a lot more room to drive the Class 378... Even if it isn't very good and doesn't have an EP yet.

Do I think the North London Line would have been better? Yes. If we had the whole NLL and the West London Line, a 377/2 for Southern services, and had a focus on freight we could have had a very enticing route. With a 377, 378 and 710 plus freight we probably would have got the best inner suburban route in TSW solely based on the variety of things to do. The consolation is that we already have the 710 and the 377/2 is very similar to the /4, so the only real work would be for the 378 should they decide to do it in the future. This is, of course, just hypothetical.

 

So… I pulled the trigger after so many positive reviews and can confirm that the overall package is excellent, if you like this sort of route. On PS5, FPS is predictably fairly low on most of the route, but as performance is pretty smooth it is not too noticeable. DTG seem to have found just the right balance between scenery density and performance optimisation. As mentioned the PS5 Pro should make TSW a much more fluid experience when it arrives.

 

In game I don't think any of them are visible.

I'm not too familiar with the real Overground network, but a look on Google Maps and the game, the Goblin/Suffragette Line looks to be at too low a level and the stations too far away from at least both Arsenal and Spurs grounds.

The East Coast Mainline however, passes right alongside the Emirates (and Arsenal's old home Highbury) and between Hornsey and New Southgate you can see Spurs ground in the distance.

I think it's been asked earlier in the thread, but do we know any of the Easter Egg AI services and does anyone have a time to see the AI Scotsman railtour on the bench where the ECML passes above?

 

I would agree with the comments about the route being very well put together.......but with one caveat.

As usual, there are very few paths to help with scenario creation. Most of the more 'interesting' puts of the route are off-limits and Ripple Lane in particular is poor with up and down trains sharing the same lines which causes all sorts of pathing difficulties. TBH I don't know why DTG finds this aspect of route building so difficult. Nearly every route released would benefit from just one or two additional paths which would take minutes to implement.

I'm putting a scenario up on the hub shortly with Scotsman in it. Download that and you can see her every time

 

In answer to my own question about the AI Scotsman railtour on the ECML and for any others interested, it passes the spotters bench and over the Goblin Line at Haringey around 08:03.

Not sure if there's a return at night or not though.

 

Perfect thanks for this now need to work out which service to drive.

 

Bare in mind as well Blackpool's a route that's both nicely detailed, and is actually fairly lengthy by TSW standards. The idea that route needs to be this short just to achieve decent quality shouldn't be the case. If everything was Blackpool quality and quantity I'd certainly not only own more routes in this game, I'd have bought the majority of them at full price instead of waiting on sale.

 

40 minute services for this price actually not that bad i think

 

Also passes Upper Holloway around 1535 heading to Crouch Hill and the ECML.
The 1938 Stock passes Barking at 1310.
Mike.

 

There was a service that passed under the ECML just before Scotsman crossed over, I think it was from Gospel Oak but can't quite remember for sure.

I just decided to set the time to 8:00am and used yesterday's date to spawn in on foot and walked up the trackbed, under the ECML bridge and up the path to the spotters bench and got there just before Scotsman passed by.

 

I don't particularly want this thread to be at risk of being locked.

 

Make a list of everybody who posted in this thread, saying that the route is very good.

One month from now, go and ask all of those people how many times they have played it in the last few weeks.

As with Edinburgh-Glasgow, Cathcart Circle and Birmingham Cross-City, this seems like one of those "Play it for a few days, call it impressive, then never touch it again" routes.... There is just nothing to come back to once the novelty wears off.

 

I don’t think the problem is with it being a good or bad route, there is obviously work in this DLC & detail which goes beyond that of other routes, but the gameplay it offers isn’t £25 worth - which is why I’m holding out.

 

It really all depends on how you define value. Individuals can decide that for themselves. There is no right or wrong.

Personally I expect to get 1 hours playtime out of every 1 CHF I spend (33.50 CHF in this case). I’m about 5 hours off that at the moment which I’m pretty sure I’ll hit at the weekend as I haven’t touched the scenarios yet.

Compared to a trip to the cinema (25 CHF) this is really good value.

Compared to Forza Horizon 5 which cost me 65 CHF and I have almost 1300 hours playtime. Then it looks pretty poor.

I don’t expect I’ll play it much in a couple of months. But I reckon I’ll have had enough playtime against my own definition of value. Can’t say that for all the DLCs I own unfortunately.

 

Personally, I like building up my route collection and then dipping in and out of different DLCs to get variety, rather than needing it to be delivered through every route that’s released… as an example, GOBLIN has inspired me to go and do a few runs on Bakerloo, which I haven’t touched for over a year at least.

revisiting London also made me remember how much I enjoyed BML, so I’ll probably do a few runs there… Fife Circle will be huge, time consuming and will probably get a couple of runs out of it, before I go do an EDI-GLA run in 385 and remember how much I hate the sound mixing…. And so on.

what I’m trying to say is for me, having the range of routes to dip into is the variety I need, not always being able to rinse as much time as possible out of each individually.

 

Individual matters play a part, but to suggest it's completely subjective with no objectivity involved whatsoever is nonsense. I see people all the time make the comparison that "taste is subjective" without factoring in that food taste in itself isn't a entirely subjective thing. There's a reason professional cooks and food critics exist, you can objectively determine something that's well made versus something that isn't. Most people avoid eating raw chicken and black mold, and it's not just because mass population dislike the taste.

 

A fascinating escape into the culinary world and the dangers of food poisoning, but I don't know what it has to do with what the person you quoted was saying in reference to this particular route. I think I can safely say that most people agree that the route is well made but there is some legitimate debate over whether the '(re-)playability' offers value for money to them, which is, on balance, subjective (you chose to add the word 'completely').

 

Well someone else said the route price was fine as Milk had gone up 45%…can’t have it both ways.

The point Mich made was that there is an element of objectivity about it, which there is.

 

That's their opinion. We don't have to agree with it but, equally, why quote from someone else's post and sneer at them with a possibly misguided attempt at muddling up two meanings of the word taste?

I didn't say that wasn't the case. Most, if not all, opinions actually contain some degree of objectivity because we don't live in a vacuum.

This is turning into another off-topic, semantic discussion, which I have already fallen foul of once today. I just wish people would be a bit kinder and not keep trying to constantly win an unwinnable exchange of opinions.

 

Well done DTG loving this route. So much detail and also a shout out to the sounds. I like listening to the guy on his laptop tapping away on his keyboard. Little chunks out of the station walls to give it that warn look. Yes well done and it runs lovely on xbox series x.

 

The irony of EDN and CCL being my most played routes .
I agree with BCC, that is just too long for me to commit to.
I like the idea of Goblin, it's a really well made route, so we shall see.

 

BCC would have been an excellent springboard for a West Midlands network, but the main reason I don't play it much (apart from the tedium of 90 minutes calling all stations) is that it remains empty and forgotten. It pretty much epitomises DTG's attitude to their whole TSW franchise, releasing something in the moment, then... There's little to suggest Goblin won't end up the same way so you have to take it what you get now is how it will remain.

Though certain irony that despite my enthusiasm at the time, even the three routes which came with TSW4 now lie mainly un-played, while I return to the older stuff, or recent releases like BPO and Salzburg to Rosenheim.

 

For those of you that wanted to see Flying Scotsman on the GOBLIN line then my scenario, that has her running in it, is now uploaded.
You can find the scenario here Creators Club - 14:11 CL710 to Barking (DJ)
Plenty of AI and a few signal checks along the way. Enjoy

(You can see some screenshots from the scenario itself here Scenarios - 14:11 To Barking Riverside | Dovetail Games Forums )

 

I agree on BCC. It's my local route and I run along the canal next to it quite a lot, so I'm positively predisposed to it but, when I do play it, I tend to find myself going for the limited number of shorter runs that are available in the timetable, particularly south of New Street, because I rarely have an hour+ to spend on it. I suppose one difference between Goblin and BCC is that a full route run is considerably shorter, so it might be better for those looking for that 'quick fix'.

 

Since A-B commuter routes aren't really my thing, I doubt I will be getting this until a sale; But I am VERY encouraged that DTG is still able to do a high-quality, detailed route with excellent audio.

 

Here's my review

The route is very well made, with good scenery, good audio, and good attention to detail. There is no denying the quality of the route however whether or not the route is worth £25 is subjective considering it is just 13 miles and there is little variety in service mode. The 710 feels nice to drive but I wish we could stretch its legs a little further and at higher speeds too which is why I wish they picked a longer Overground line.

7/10 for me, the quality is great but the underwhelming service variety is as I expected and brings the route down a bit.

 

Well exactly. Considering that DTG has so many years of route- modeling experience and that this route is only a baker's dozen miles long, it would be absolutely shocking if the quality and detail of the scenery elements weren't very good.

What's lacking in the recent routes are the gameplay elements such as choice of route, amount and variety of playable rolling stock, inclusion of branches and connections to nearby lines, glaring absences of major landmarks and simply awful night lighting, especially in major metro areas, just to name the worst issues. As you say, this all points to playability or replayability, which creates value for the asking price.

For example, BPO is worth every penny of $40 as were the Rush Hour routes for the most part. Nothing since then from DTG has really been worth full price.

 

Maintalbahn would like a word , but yes I do agree, we shouldn’t be surprised that good quality exists, I myself was pretty impressed when I saw the various stop markers for different trains, but then accurate infrastructure should exist on all routes.

There is definitely an ongoing trend with DTG & their lack of scope in DLC. I was going to say lack of imagination, but their imagination is becoming an issue really, made up stuff being all over the routes, along with time being spent on silly collectibles, rather than putting abit more roughage & better looking assets in routes.

In Goblin alone I’ve noticed a couple of bridges just have a flat texture of a row of shops on them, no roadside infront at all, just the sides of a bridge with a poor looking shopfront texture tacked onto it.

As for services, Goblin is just going to be a repeating list of the same services, every train you pass will always be in the same place you pass it on a previous service. Another 20ish miles for the NLL would have brought down the staleness of this route by a lot & it would still be shorter than the average route.

They’ve made more of a point of the ECML traffic you pass under, because they know that’s more popular, so it begs the question why they didn’t just do another stretch of that instead.

The London Overground is matched only by the Underground when it comes to a true London Rail experience, I was always looking forward to seeing it in TSW, even if the service type isn’t the most appealing to me, but doing the Goblin Line as a standalone is a none starter.

 

That's twice now that i've experienced passengers on the tracks at Leytonstone High Road, that needs to be fixed before someone gets PTSD

 

For me something like the old South London network in TSC would have represented the capital much better. Or the Whitton Circle from Waterloo, preferably back in EPB or SUB days. I know there is an embargo on more third rail routes, but either of these would have given a bit of classic London action.

 

Bring back Broad Street.
(With 501's, 105's and CL31's for that really run-down London experience).

Either that or the widened lines?

 

The one thing I will say after watching the Dadrail stream. After he pointed out the 710 pulling away sounds almost identical to the Bakerloo Stock I can't unhear it.

 

Me too on that. If that is genuinely how they sound then fair enough, just coincidence. But you can't help wondering whether it was just synthed up out of the 1972 stock with a bit of the Class 700 initial screech/flutter blended on top.

 

You can kinda hear the pulling away sound in this video, it’s quieter than it is in game. And the screech/flutter sounds you’re talking about are the brakes releasing I’m sure

 

I tried the route for 45 minutes then refunded it. Here's the thing. Detail-wise, DTG was at the top of their game on this. The route and scenery are very detailed and the 710 is very well made.

The reason I returned it is the lack of variety. Every service with the 710 is exactly the same. A-B, B-A, A-B. I realized there would be no replayability with this route besides playing around with the weather. Every oncoming train will be at the exact same time every service. I was hoping this would be made up for with ECS moves throughout the day into and out of yards, but there is only one move to and from East Ham all day! I can't imagine all but one or two 710s assigned to the Suffragette Line stay in service 24 hours a day. There has to be some down-time in the yard. A route like this really only succeeds as a network type route. I'm waitiing to see what we'll get with Fife Circle because there's more of a network to it, even if it may not have the attention to detail the Suffragette Line DLC has. It's not "see it once, you've seen it all". I definitely agree with the person who said they're disappointed that DTG is kinda in a fire and forget mode where they make a route and then not come back to it to increase variety through other routes out of the same hubs that increase loco variety on the original route, for example the empty Birmingham area of BCC with only 323s.

My other issue is that the 710 is such a quick train on one of the slowest routes. I probably had the throttle up maybe a minute combined my whole run up the line. So in conclusion, incredibly well done route in terms of detail, but not long enough, varied enough, or enough replayability from different combos of service type, stopping pattern, ECS moves, and loco variety to hold my interest for more than one service.

 

I play those three routes a lot. I don't buy a route, play it to death or even a few times and then never come back to it. The beauty of having such a variety of routes is that you can mix them up.

It would be very revealing if we built a list up of all the people who have said "I will never buy TSW(insert number here) or I would never buy this route", often with angry rejoinders about how awful DTG are......then a few weeks or months later lo and behold said route or version is magically in their possesson.

People like different types or routes, just because you don't like a particular type of route, it doesn't mean you represent everyone.

I will be buying the route over the weekend and will certainly get value for money out of it as I will be still be playing it in five or ten years time I am sure!

 

I really like this route. Sure, it’s short. But it’s immensely detailed and the loco is cool. It’s just a shame we don’t have more rolling stock to fill out some of the attached rail.

 

it's a hell of a lot better than Fife Circle Line that's for sure

 

How does this play on PS4? Are framerates okay?

 

You are correct in that the Class 710 traction sounds are mixed together in a synthetic fashion such that they sound like the Class 710. With the studio doing it this way, they've shot themself in the foot because there's no separate gearbox and pulse mode audio. They've also left out the current harmonic PWM method after the switch from asynchronous to synchronous drive which is a hefty thing to leave out because it's what gets the AC motor up to higher speeds efficiently. But I believe the Random Carrier Frequency (RCFM) is more or less as recorded. Regardless, I've produced a mod which uses authentic audio and more of it to add things like the carrier harmonic PWM and separating the Mitrac TCU pulses from the gearbox vibrations: https://www.trainsimcommunity.com/mods/c3-train-sim-world/c20-sounds/i4393-class-710-sound-mod

I doubt that the sounds used for the Class 710 are taken directly from the 1972 stock MkII. And even still, the 1972 stock MkII has its sounds recorded from another EMU well before the concept of Train Sim World. Additionally, the Class 700 uses a completely different carrier method - Periodic Carrier Frequency Modulation (PCFM). It doesn't behave like RCFM as it isn't a randomly clocked frequency, but rather a periodically clocked frequency set/ramp depending on the power mode. As a result, excluding DC mode as it uses an unsuitable periodic ramp, the 25kV power for PCFM couldn't be used on the Class 710 as this would require extensive synthesis to randomize and correct the mean frequency to get it sounding correct - Armstrong Powerhouse wouldn't allow this of their soundsets.

 

The original 1972 Stock sounds are from the original TSC Class 455 DLC.

I must say it saddens my heart how they didn't use the opportunity to capture and preserve the unique sounds of the 1972TS with TSW2's development, though I understand they couldn't do a recording trip due to Covid-19. However, restrictions have been eased for about two years now and BKL as a whole could really do with a revamp, with the release of Goblin Line making BKL feel like the out-of-style older sibling.

 

Sorry to say that I purchased the route, ran a couple of services, eastward and westward and found that driving the 710 was just too easy, like a dodgem car at a fairground. Stations are too close together, few chances to pick up any speed, long stretches at 30mph and not much variation in services. Frankly bored to tears.

The route is beautifully detailed, but that's just not enough. Just can't see myself playing this route over and over. Refunded.

 

Fair enough. I don’t think I’ll be refunding, too late now anyway, but as I said elsewhere it’s a stocking filler route - something if you want to spend 45 minutes doing a complete run. Must admit after my run from Gospel Oak to Barking I came off and thrashed the Big Boy in TSC for half an hour, before dropping back into TSW and firing up a scenario on ECML.

It would certainly have been more interesting in the diesel era, preferably 80’s as you could have had 104’s, 105’s and whatever else ran over there, plus 31s, 37s and 47s on freight. For a choice of TfL prototype the NLL proper might have been better or to showcase the 710 a route with larger gaps between stations so you could get up to speed. And that long 30 MPH stretch, prototypical as it might be, does get tedious!

 

Did you not run a freight service at all? I guess if refunding is on your mind you don’t have the time to properly check out everything. Not that it is any harder to drive the Class 66 - add throttle to go faster, add brake to go slower, not at all difficult but you do get up some speed in many services, and have to watch out for the signals of course, as you will catch up to the passenger trains or other freight on some runs. I must say that with all the speed limit changes, gradient changes and station stops, I don’t think the route is boring but we all have different takes on what is a good experience and what isn’t and replay potential. It’s interesting to read other people’s experiences.