..and, apparently, their professional reputation and friendships within the industry were damaged by allegations made out of court.
Which is usually the aim of Narcissists/Psychopaths. In that case they have still won. Bullies always win. Its their aim in life.
I also feel sorry for those who have uploaded scenarios, reskins etc and now risk being seen as "dodgy" by association I'd pay 38 quid for a flying monkey....dead cool pet!!
This is a confusing thread. It started as “This is too expensive - don’t buy it” to “don’t buy anything from ATS as they are abusing their developers”.
There are usually 2 sides to each argument. It appears that ATS won a court case which would suggest they were legally in the right. Business can be unfair sometimes. Life will usually give each of us some hard knocks. We just have to rebound and get back up. TSC is only in reality a game (yes I know it is classed as a simulator). There is more to life to be honest. We should be thankful for our friends and family. Respectfully
Not much to say about the 745 as it has flaws that shouldn't be there in such an expensive standalone addon. If they'd bundled it with GEMMA for 35 bucks, nobody would've complained probably. Have you seen what 3DZUG delivered with their ICE1? All wagons are fully modelled, even the toilets, and there's a dozen camera views per coach, you can walk through the whole train. Alternatively they offer a secondary set of sounds by Linus Follert depending on the version you want to drive. Nobody is telling anyone what to buy, it's up to you if you want to pay that much for an average limited use train and pay extra again for the (modified not even extended) route to run it on. And you're free to enjoy the train you bought - but allow discussion as what's happening there is just not ok for many of us and the TSC scene, and I for one will not support ATS.
Where did you get the information that they won the court case? From they themselves? I have heard it the other way: the developer they fired won the court case that ATS brought against that person. Could have been a Steam DLC in that case. They would fit perfectly together as an updated version just like the original FRC got updated by HIS. ...that is, if they didn't use the $20 payware wires.
I get emails from people who seem to be Nigerian princes, but that doesn't mean they are. Post #67 was from somebody new to the forum, who was by his own admission being vague about the details. Is that perhaps because he's only heard it second hand? If there was a court case, the record of it will be in the public domain. Perhaps somebody can post the link? I would be genuinely interested to know. But if there's no record, can you be sure it happened?
Back to the subject of the thread. I know it's a lot of money, but the Class 745 has rapidly become my favourite. I run it on mainly on GEMMA/GEML, but also on Crouch Valley. I can't wait for the 755 to be released as it's my current local train here in deepest Suffolk/Norfolk.
County court cases aren't automatically posted to the internet to my knowledge - unless they've been transcribed and published for some noteworthy reason the records would have to be requested from the court with the claim number, and no - I haven't heard about it second hand so I know for fact it happened. As for being vague about the details, I didn't feel like dragging the entire thing out onto a public forum - had their pet chihuahua not started threatening people talking about it on Twitter for discussing it I wouldn't be posting anything about it whatsoever, and as he has since stopped I elected to not get publicly involved any further. If you absolutely want to ask questions, you can find me on Discord with an identical username.
Please can we put this to bed now, I think the last post neatly concludes the discussion here and any additional comments will only be rehashing what's already stated/claimed, if you're that interested do like the quoted post says, take it to discord. As I said before I have no horse in this race but I/we have a vested interest in keeping this forum from becoming a virtual pitchfork and torches lynch mob.
Not 100% sure if you're referring to Tommydee's post as concluding it or mine, but yes - unless anything further happens to give me reason to post anything else about it, then there is no need to go into things further. It is however intrinsically linked to the development of the train, why it's taken so long to release, and the pretty poor quality of the final product (which I would not be putting my name on were I still the developer of it. I'd be ashamed to do so) - so I can see why people would want to discuss it. (Up until.a reasonable point, and focusing specifically on the direct effects it's had on the train - I agree that things are drifting away from that) My own views on the product, as someone who was very close to it at one point, is that it is definitely not of a level of quality that justifies the length of time taken, and the fact that the new developer has had to take this long and still had to split it into two packs is an utter embarrassment. This should (and would) have been out within 2022 with both units together - and a significantly better feature-set. Fairly sizeable chunks of code are reused from the 185, and nowhere near enough new stuff (or high quality stuff) has been added to come close to the price tag assigned to it (even under the original planned features etc I wouldn't have put my name to it at this price if our version had been the one released) I'd be ashamed if a product I was responsible for shipped in this state after this long.
Doesn’t the 720 run on Crouch Valley? I did see the 755 runs to Sudbury from Marks Tey. Indeed. It has taken so long that there should have been even more than just two trains in the package by now. By now, to justify a price anywhere near that, it not only should have bundled with the updated route, but also included the 720 to use on Crouch Valley to both destinations there.
I was just looking for a route that I could run my new toy over other than GEMMA and GEML. It doesn't feel that wrong to run the 12 car 745 from Southend Vic, all stops to Shenfield, and then Stratford and Liverpool Street and back.
from what i gathered from the Twitch streams the newer developer spent a lot of time implementing "fancy features" like automatic wiper controll or the toilet display thingy. I have not bought this pack because I am disappointed that it is not just like the class 185. Good sound, good physics and the normal keybinds and features we are used to. Also splitting the 745 and 755 in to two packs is a bummer.
Yeah, I'm utterly baffled by the key binds. One of the key things when we worked on the 185 was to try and keep it completely consistent with the now accepted standard controls
A 745 did go to Southend Victoria a couple of years ago. It was just a test train unfortunately. A couple of years ago the 745s were slated to be taken from the Stansted Express and be used on commuter services to Clacton and Ipswich, I was gutted when the plan fell through.
Kinda glad we kept them on the Stansted Express diagrams personally. The 720s are alright, but the 745 has been a godsend for accessibility on this line - no more wheelchair ramp required
It's just an electric unit - why would it not work? You won't get any ASDO or announcements, but there's no reason the author of the route should matter in the slightest beyond that
Not exactly an ATS Route as it would not work without the other Payware sections. Not sure why you think it has to be an ATS Route to make it work?
The ATS part on the route is literally meaningless outside of the two functions I mentioned (and that caveat even applies to their other merges etc since they won't be configured) You could run it on literally any route with OHLE that has ever been released by any developer/publisher, just like any other OHLE unit/loco that has ever been released. You must really buy into their marketing if you thought the developer of the route matters in any way at all (and that would explain some of the other wildly incorrect things you said earlier in the thread)
I treat this whole thread as a personal attack! I purchased this unit in good faith before ANY of this was written. All I see is "You are an idiot". Respectfully
Entirely your prerogative, but given that almost all of the posts in this thread aren't even directed at you that would seem like a wild overreaction - we're simply trying to figure out why you would ever think the unit would only work on ATS routes unless you really bought into their marketing like I said above. As for my calling out wildly incorrect statements you'd made elsewhere in the thread: That's a statement of fact, which by definition isn't an attack. Personal or otherwise. It's merely a thing that has happened. (And for the record I don't care if you bought it before, after or while reading the thread. It makes no difference to me whatsoever - it's your money, the only person you have to justify your spending to is yourself - not me, or anyone else in this thread)
In fairness to kilt46, there are some posts earlier on in this thread that imply, if not out-and-out state as an absolute fact, that this unit can only be used on the GEML, ATS version or otherwise. Whilst it may very well be the case that in the real world this train only runs on that route, in the game you can run it on any electrified route that you so choose - even over Woodhead and probably on a third rail equipped Southern route (unless there's some feature implemented that checks for overhead wires as opposed to any other form of electrification).
I mean, equally I'm baffled where the original idea comes from - has it been marketed that way? Urban myth from someone misunderstanding somewhere and then repeating it?
While use on any other route is a fictional scenario, I am sure you can run it on GWML, Chatham Main Line, Suburban Glasgow, or anywhere you want to. Does not have to be an ATS route. Also, London to Edinburgh is a merged route of non-ATS items, so it’s mostly not ATS routes.
Having driven a US loco with a half a mile (Guesstimation) consist of flat wagons on the Isle of Wight, and a HST on The Metropolitan Line I say to kilt46.. Have at it, have fun.
Just my 50 cents. kilt46 I absolutely want you to have fun with the train, and you are free to post that in here. Don't let the issues split the community. I know it's not nice when someone criticises something that's giving you a good time - but it was never aimed at you but the publisher, who is free to add his opinion or ignore it. Reef I don't think we should censor discussion in any way, as this always supports the bullies. I think we can freely discuss our thoughts as long as nobody is attacked. But a commercial developer has to deal with criticism (and can choose to ignore it. No torch wielding mob, that's a bit of an exaggeration imho. ATS is making a lot of money and won't be hurt by this discussion.)
Yeah, as long as we're not emulating the 2017 Potato Mob of "[They] will not replace us" (with "[They]" censoring the actual thing they named) because I don't want to fully draw that into here), I think we're fine. Anything I say is meant to be critical of the professional entity, which is itself not actually a person, but as with all professional entities sure tries to act like one. Criticisms can be made of the management, but I'm never going to suggest that an anvil should fall through a roof on anyone's head Looney Tunes style or anything silly like that.
One dude is an ATS sympathiser, And the other is the Bullies advocate. And wants to silence people. (I wonder what his "Vested Interest" is?) I could only make a guess. I will never ever defend bullies or narcissist psychopaths. I hate them. I have been their victim once too often. on and offline, And I take care to avoid them. why should I encounter them when I sit down to read news about, or enjoy Train Simulator. Or download DLC free or Payware for it. I thought it was Train Simulator. Not Primary School Simulator (gee that would be really horrible!!, and terrifying)
It was a direct response to your post, and the part I quoted (twice now, see below) in particular --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No I don't think any conversation should be censored, that's not the point I was making at all, I'm simply responding to doonicus#5487's post prior to mine, he himself said he wouldn't go into any further detail here so if anyone wanted any more info to go to Discord, which to me seemed a good time for us all to end the ATS discussion (which most of us can only surmise and speculate over) and return the thread to being about the 745 as originally intended in the OP. I mean other than doonicus#5487 and Alan Thomson himself who exactly can add anything else that hasn't already been said? Is the same people repeating the same thing but using different words productive or any further enlightening? Please explain to me Spikee old mate what exactly it is that you think will be gained from this thread continuing on this tangent (not anything constructive or critiqued about the 745 apparently). You berate me for exaggerating regarding my flippant "torch wielding" comment then go and add an exaggeration of your own using the word "censorship", c'mon mate.
Seriously? It's public knowledge that I hate the ATS subscription model I've posted that here many times in the past, I haven't bought the 745 as it's a little to rich for me as I doubt I'd get any serious mileage out of it. I have no business or personal interests with anyone in the ATS community. But seeing as you've asked my "vested interest" is this community and it has been since 2018.
One indicator about how good/popular an item of rolling stock is the number of scenarios available for it. Immediately after the 745's release 4 scenarios "hit the shelves" at ATS, written by 3 different people. These may have been testers of the pack, explaining why the scenarios were available so soon after launch. Since then it's been a little quiet, I can only find a further 3 scenarios at ATS. Is this an indication of a lack of sales?
Not sure Gary, obviously we're not privy to that information, one thing I would think though is that scenario creators would/should be extremely cautious and reluctant to create scenarios where the 745 is used as a.i. but not the player train because that would mean you're expecting people to shell out £40 or whatever just for scenario eye candy. Sure there will be such scenarios cropping up for the existing owners to utilise but it wont entice new sales solely based upon that, in fact I can see Locoswap/TSTools being utilised to weed them out more than I can see casual users opening their wallets, that in itself surely effects sales, I've bought so much stock I'll never drive just to play scenarios the way they were intended to be played, can't say I'll do it for the 745 until it hits a very generous sale at least. Do I think ATS dropped a b*****k with the pricing on this? Sorry to say it but yes, I think they have. (Well that's going to pee on KrisKols theory about me eh.)
I would be a bit difficult to make anymore scenarios, since there is only Braintree, Harwich, Colchester Town, Ipswich And Felixstowe to go to. And not the rest of the Branches.
Like, why does it crash when you try to use it in a Scenario? I noticed that. We are extending the South East and South West Network. We placed a MJW Class 60 on a freight route, and BOOM! I never bothered to investigate, We were more thinking that it was OUR route thats at fault.
Good morning everyone, it looks like emotions are riding quite high in this thread. I will close it until tomorrow in hopes to cool some tempers, once the thread reopens, discussions in here will hopefully return to a more respectful and constructive tone. Please remember to keep our forum rules in mind when making a post. All the best, Jan
Since the thread is back, I'll now throw in the Manningtree branch at Just Trains for the 755. Which is where that train should have been developed and released if it was going to be a separate release. There's also an old UKTS Manningtree freeware pack that allowed for moving boats on tracks in the water. Sudbury also gets 755s from Marks Tey on the main route.
The Manningtree Branch see two 755 workings each day 2A04 0524 Lowestoft to Harwich International then 2W06 0745 Harwich International to Cambridge 2A48 1947 Cambridge to Harwich International then 2D98 2147 Harwich International to Lowestoft All other departures are Class 720 emus which are not in the game. Irrespective of how good or bad the 745 is it is a strange train as all the other trains on GEML in TSC are much older The Scenarios will have to be set between March 2020 (entry of 745) and April 2023 (Withdrawal of 312s)
