Why Dovetail Games Makes Me Angry!

For the attention of…

DTG Matt • DTG Alex • DTG JD • DTG Jamie
Anyone else with a vested interest in Train Sim World

Okay, so a video game developer should not make a person angry, but DTG has a real knack for doing so.

They market Train Sim World as an immersive, highly detailed rail simulation featuring authentic routes and trains from around the world. But do they actually deliver this?

Frankly, no. They do not.

At best, DTG is extremely inconsistent. At worst, you wonder what the hell is going on in the office.

Time and time again, DTG preview a DLC that is so poorly developed, it can do nothing else but to enrage those loyal players who expect nothing less than what DTG promises.

Missing or incomplete timetables. Inaccurate sounds. Poor lighting. Missing neutral sections. Broken scenarios. Broken signalling. Trains backing up to only Christ knows where. Collectables that can’t be collected, or collectables that are too few or too many when compared to the number that should be on the route. Trains showing incorrect destinations. Medals being too easy to gain, or impossible to do so. Features added in one DLC, then never seen again. Promises of fixes that never come.

We all know from the far too few DLC’s that DTG manage to get right that they are in fact capable of delivering a quality product, but far far too often they fail to do so. Mistakes keep repeating themselves. You can pretty much predict that something will go wrong during a preview. Within seconds, the community spot a plethora of issues. DTG don’t answer the difficult questions during live streams and go extremely quiet when the negative feedback suddenly goes into hyperdrive - which can only be expected when an over hyped product fails miserably to meet reasonable expectations.

I do not expect perfection. But I certainly expect a high level of quality consistent across all DLC that the company and its third parties release. If Just Trains can produce such a stunningly beautifully crafted DLC with a wide range of services, why can’t DTG do this after several years or pushing out content.

It’s frankly inexcusable at this point. I really do not think the company takes pride in its releases. It seems to me, it is only interested in making as much money as it can from each release.

Now I understand DTG is a business and it needs to make money, but at what cost? When DTG treats its players with contempt, when its executive producer more or less, if not outright, says you either like it or lump it on live stream, what does the company expect us to do? Are they treating us, they’re paying customers fairly? If it weren’t for us, they’d be making no money at all.

The world of train simulation is pretty sparse to say the least. This is probably why DTG throws out hastily made, shoddy content because, yeah, we either like it or lump it or do without.

Given what we’ve seen of the WCML DLC, a route that has been in extremely high demand, can Matt or anyone else at DTG really look us in the eye and say, yes, this is absolutely the best we can do and, yes, it is absolutely ready for release. If they can, they’re not doing a good job in my opinion. If a higher power is putting too much pressure on the teams to release such poor content, there needs to be stronger push back. Just look at what is happening at Boeing (obviously it’s a completely different industry), but when the workers allow management to force the flow of work, only bad things can result. Luckily for DTG, no one can die from a poor quality DLC.

DTG needs to step up. It needs to deliver a polished product every time. If something is worth doing, it is worth doing properly. If something is broken, it should be fixed promptly. Not put on an indefinite list until the end of time. If players provide critical feedback, constructively or otherwise, DTG should listen very carefully. It should not piss off those people who are prepared to pay them good money.

I appreciate not everyone will share this view. We will have to agree to disagree. As I’ve said before, I don’t expect perfection, but I certainly expect quality, competently developed releases that aren’t shot down within seconds of a preview for failing to deliver what DTG promises to deliver… an immersive, highly detailed rail simulation featuring authentic routes and trains from around the world. It’s not too much to ask, is it?

So why does DTG make me angry?

Because it can do so much better than what it is doing. We know this for a fact, but for whatever reason, it is simply failing to do so.

 

Already being discussed here...
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/enough-is-enough.72535/

 

Yes, there's a lot of pointless handwringing going on, 'fishing for likes'.

 

We haven't had a ranty post for......ooh several minutes now!

 

Yes, because that’s all we care about. Getting as many likes as we possibly can.

 

Wow… a ranting post… how novel….

 

Feel free to move along …

 

Perhaps the bad thing here is not the existence of the ranting posts but the reason why there are so many of them now?

 

Enough is enough is so huge now it is being spread by spores

 

And still DTG doesn’t slow down or change course. The captain of the Titanic was the same and we all know how that turned out.

 

The more people making their voices heard the better. Run Up!

 

We can only hope, but I genuinely fear it’s all a waste of time.

 

I don’t know who you mean. I did have an older profile, but it’s still active (just not used any more).

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/members/memc83.43707/

 

well there was one person making a forum post expressing their anger and saying they are done with TSW after TSW4 got announced in 2023's first ever Dovetail Direct.

 

Probably more than one over the years. I haven’t quit TSW, but it does frustrate me.

 

I agree with your sentiment but as was mentioned in a previous thread vote with your wallet. Nothing changes until it hits their bottom line…

 

they can be slow but sometimes/eventually they fix stuff... with lots of older stuff and new stuff arriving regularly, sometimes even new problems arise and new bugs appear - like BR 112 got its doors fixed after that got slightly broken upon 218 release, and now its brakes got messed up again

as for fixing stuff, after like over 2 yrs they finally managed to get to and fix a bug on Koln Aachen, which rendered 442 services direction Siegen/Koln unplayable because one of two units that served the services would spawn without a pantograph... now that is fixed

feedback is important, and reminding them of certain bugs helps too... it's not like they sun their ..sses on Bahamas and dont give a flying saucer about us... they do and try stuff, sometimes they succeed, sometimes they fail... and with new content arriving constantly, this is an evergoing battle

 

I was thinking of that person. They threw a hissy fit, had a go at people who purchased TSW4 and then flounced off the forum asking to be deleted. Matjamca or something?

 

You mentioned in the other thread that ‘it was about time to lock’ that particular thread….well comments like the the one quoted will certainly get a thread locked. There is no need to drag a conversation down to this level. Everyone is entitled to an opinion whether you agree or disagree!

 

DTG has its own review team and business decisions. They only aim to "maximize commercial interests". As long as the DLC is in their interests, they will execute it. Please do not confuse the interests of the company with the interests of product fans. If you are disappointed with them, the easiest way is to stop buying their products.

 

mjc83me
Not sure what this is about. If DTG make you angry on a saturday's morning, stop buying their products. Expecting others to change in your favour is illusionary and can eventually lead to mental issues.

Or are you asking the community to help you with anger management?

 

Unless I am playing a different game recent DTG releases have been very good so I don't know what wrong direction they are going in.

The anger last year was that you had to purchase TSW4 and future DLC was behind a paywall. This year they have addressed that, but they are still apparently awful. I can't take some posters seriously.

 

Whoever that user is, they’re on my ‘Ignore’ list now.

 

Have you read my whole post? Evidently not.

 

Feel free to Ignore me. I have you.

 

Aren't you the one who also wanted DTG to lock the WCML thread?

 

Please use multiquote and don't post three consecutive posts in a row.

Is this thread becoming a mjc83ME Q&A? Should be Off Topic then.

Take a walk outside, and do something unrelated to TSW on this nice weekend. It could help reducing your anger.

 

I never complained about TSW 4 being behind a paywall. I’ve bought every new TSW release. I was looking forward to buying TSW 5 until I saw WCML.

 

I really didn't read your long article, sorry.
Often the areas you hope they will improve have not improved, what can you do?
In the suggestion module, many players have posted their suggested routes, but how many of them are actually adopted?
Maybe one day when DTG meets your expectations, it won't be too late to invest.

 

I wish the forum was a lot more like this post! Talk about polite difusal.

I'm all for freedom of speech within the bounds of rational debate, but the amount of personal viciousness aimed at people is getting really unpleasant. Please can the mods do a better job of policing this forum, apply sanctions where required and generally keep the place a nice place to be?! That includes me btw!

 

I’ll use the forum how I would like to use it, unless I’m told otherwise by a DTG moderator. If you don’t like what I’m posting, please feel free to ‘Ignore’ me. I won’t be offended. I’m ignoring you now going forward

 

Only wanted to help you with your apparent issues. Bye then

 

Nice to know I'm not the only one who seems to be playing Half Life 2 while everyone else is playing Hunt Down The Freeman. I freely acknowledge that improvements do need to come, but you'd think the games were shovelware with some of the things you read.

 

It really is quite amusing how some people really take things personally and start making personal attacks on these forums. If you don’t agree with me, you don’t agree with me. I recognise not everyone will, but I am entitled to vent my frustrations. I don’t make things personal or turn nasty when doing so. There is an ‘Ignore’ function on every profile. Please click it if you don’t want to see my posts. I won’t be offended in the least.

 

sometimes I do that because I go through notifications, threads, posts, sometimes back and forth, sometimes at work (pretend you dont see this one lol) and answer some things one by one as I have time to do so

mostly I would hit multiquote and group that but sometimes the circumstances end up in multiple posts in a row not every instance of this is on purpose

 

DTG should focus on players' experience and suggestions, which is the most important thing. DTG has been lazy in improving.
What do I think is the biggest reason? The answer I found is "There is no game on the market that can compete with DTG at present".
The train simulation game market is too niche.

 

Makes a change from calling them lazy for flying to California to re-record an MP36 (a loco they already had sounds for, if of a debatable quality) like a lot of the American community are going down the route of.

 

Maybe

 

Considering that I'd imagine American operators aren't too happy about either people joyriding their trains or people finding out what happens when you change a set of points in front of a train and then post it to YT for clicks, I'd guess DTG kinda have their hands tied behind their backs as far as NA content is concerned, hence Metrolink round two (although research leads me to believe San Bernadino would feel quite different to drive).

 

It's a weekend, and the staff are online in their free time when they feel like it (while that is nice of them, I struggle to believe it is sustainable). They have, unfortunately, made it clear that weekend moderation isn't going to change.

 

You are a kind-hearted person and I know you will keep your passion.

 

Is it bad to want a good quality product for the money you pay?
Simple "do not buy if you are not satisfied" will not help to resolve TSW's quality roller coaster

 

That's a great pity. Thanks for the insight though.
Maybe sanctions need to be more draconian to act as a deterrent during the periods when monitoring is not active....?

 

This reminds me of a Pirate Software short, where he basically says 'If you don't like what a game company is doing, stop buying their stuff and stop being a number on their charts.' All due respect, if you can see from a preview stream or the past few months of quality control that QC is currently dire, buying it anyway is like knowing full well that restaurant doesn't serve food you like, and dining there anyway and acting surprised.

 

Indeed, to say DTG aren’t listening is quite untrue they’ve just made a big change to the way the core is released which is I suspect largely due to feedback received in the forum.

I also agree about recent releases. The last DTG one I felt was bad was Maintalbahn and even that is quite good with TSG’s 218. There have also been a lot more fixes recently,

My problem was I just got bored and considered uninstalling it if there was another paid release. However the current roadmap and the free core have renewed my motivation.

I’m certainly not angry. If something genuinely makes me angry, I stop doing it I don’t keep coming back for more.

 

Speak for yourself. I’ve got high blood pressure.

 

I don’t keep coming back for more. In fact, I’ve cancelled the TSW 5 pre-order I made. The reason it makes me so angry is that I’m really quite passionate about the game. It’s really infuriating that we are let down more than we should be. There aren’t a lot of alternatives, so when DTG makes a hash of things, it’s very unfortunate to say the least.

 

I agree. You are a paying customer and have a right to complain if you want. As long as the conversation stays civilized, I don't see a problem here. We shouldn't just blindly accept the quality of released works; we are all customers and have the privilege of voicing our opinions.