Same, wcml is too poor to warrant paying out £54 for a broken game. My money will be making interest in the mean time.
The only problem is, console players can’t get any of the mods, so if DTG doesn’t improve the route, we’ve given them money and they won’t learn their lesson - not that they’ll learn their lesson with me withholding purchase. Probably just cutting my nose off to spite my face at this point.
I get that absolutely, but dare I say it that’s an issue for console players. As a PC player you know there will be mods, console players don’t have that luxury. The decision for them is a different one I guess.
Yeah, the console players are stuck with what DTG hand out. PC players can have mods for their game, but why should it be down to other people who don't get paid to fix a game for people who do?
Honestly how did this route get through QA, so many issues. Seeing mixed reports of one of my many issues so not sure how it gets reproduced. Floating forest between Bushey and Watford (No mods installed)
I am quite happy with my purchase of the Deluxe version. I watched a cab ride video of WCML departing Euston and noticed the traffic loading for the cab ride video wasn’t that far off from the simulation. It isn’t like the simulation is devoid of traffic, but I am sure a more complete timetable would add to the route. I did install LondonMidlands signal improvement mode along with JetWash excellent mod . Running the football scenario was impressed with the visuals for an evening raining run. I have completed a few 390’s timetables as well and like the route. Being a Yank, not intimately familiar with the real world route, but comparing it to a cab ride video feel it is a good representation of the route. I have been in Euston Station a few times in my visits to the UK and it looked as I recall.. especially the concourse upon entering the station. Though it isn’t available on foot in the simulation, it looks like I remember it coming up from the tracks. All in all having a good time with my purchase.
We can dream This afternoon’s 6C20 trundled by our house with 70 807 at the front and 56 105 on the back. I’d love to see that in TSW. Are Colas reluctant to licence?
I’m playing on PS5 (deluxe) so no mods & no access to TSW4 content yet. I think overall, my previous opinion stands - this is pretty sloppy for current TSW standards. WCML is as I’ve seen others say, not as bad as I thought it was going to be. However that isn’t exactly a good thing. The current timetable is ok, it’s not bad, but it’s not good. Long term I don’t see me coming back to play this route without a new TT. Most of the other issues with WCML, DTG has said they’re working on & hopefully they’ll get those improvements out - but again most of those are things that should be standard, for me it’s a big problem that such basic things are being left unchecked. As I said, sloppy & doesn’t really represent what DTG can actually do. The 350 is an alright experience, it sits between the 700 & 380 for me. I think the 380 soundset has more definition to it, but overall it’s a pretty decent drive, as far as an EMU goes. It does really need the suspension on it, and again back to branding, I really hope this can be brought back. The 390 overall is again decent. I don’t think it’s especially *wow* like other rolling stock has been, but it’s enjoyable none the less. I really think they nailed the interior & exterior of it & it certainly evokes more than a sense of familiarity. The sounds are a mixed bag, the exterior is really, really good. It has pretty much all the unique sounds that you’d hear from a 390 (other than running). The interior sounds fall down a little, up to 40mph there is some pretty bad looping & overall is more inaccurate, but not bad. I think my biggest overall problems with the rolling stock is that DTG seems to be going too far in showing how insulated cabs are. Sure, they actually are quiet IRL, but IRL you get so much more feedback which just isn’t there in TSW. I think that DTG need to consider this before going overboard with the noise dampening. In summary, it needs work. There are worse routes in TSW, but there are better. As an experience it’s a pretty muted route, the combination of lacking TT, no LNR branding, incorrect consists, areas of questionable scenery (which is also too sterile), lighting issues & PIS issues really drag it down. There are too many niggly problems that overwhelm it - the good news is that DTG seem to be on track to knock most of them back in line. Once it’s up to a better standard core wise, the TT really needs expanding, both service wise & layer wise. That being said, taking the 390 into its 125mph tilt through Berkhamstead is a real treat.
Yeah, wcml really shouldn't have launched in this condition at all, no might or maybe, it just shouldn't have got past quality control period. If the problems were found in quality control, but quality control gets over riden, then what's the point in having quality control? So, either DTG seen it or they didn't or seen it too late to do anything about it?
The timetable is absolutely shambolic, incorrect headcodes for movements that are not intermodal eg Dungeness to Crewe which is infact 68s and nuclear flasks…, there’s loads of underground and tfl services missing. Whoever did the timetable clearly has 0 clue what they are doing
Yeah this is where they lose me, they only started working on problems the other day. By that point it had been over 2 weeks since the preview & even then, surely DTG should have seen the issues with it beforehand. It only realistically leaves the conclusion that DTG were absolutely fine to push it out in the standard it was at, only working on the problems after the public calls them out says a lot to me. Even if you discard the things we’d like to see such as the timetable improvements, core things such as lightbaking should have absolutely been addressed.
There is a theory knocking around that Rivet done the wcml route, which if that is the case they handed the route over to DTG late maybe and nothing could have been done in time? Then that raises the question why didn't DTG do, what were they at?
Rivet and other external partners played a part. Although no one reads the bit in bold, they focus too much on the word Rivet.
That's even worse, more than one party means it is even a bigger mess and it will be a nightmare to try and clean this up as those parties will probably have to be involved.
Well, I spent most alot of the weekend playing TSW5 and the WCML South. I have really enjoyed it more than I thought I would. The route looks great so well done to all involved. The Class 390 is a beautiful train to drive and I enjoy going 125mph and tilting through stations with them. The only disappointment is that it all ends quickly and Im at Euston or MK before I know it. The Class 350 is also good to drive and I had fun with these too. The sound is so realistic too I actually feel like im at the station or on the train for real. I also tried the Conductor mode and found that to be quite interesting and fun too even though I made some wrong decisions by mistake. However there are issues with this line, the London Overground timetable is so bad, You only see 1 maybe 2 trains before Watford, or vice versa. The Underground isnt much better. There really needs to be an increase in the number of services on these lines to make it even better. Another issue is that whenever it is raining, I am crashing whenever I do some kind of action. Once for just getting out of the seat, and another for exiting a tunnel. This is on PS5. Overall my opinion of the route is positive and I really enjoy driving it.
I do find it slightly unfair that they are receiving such a hefty amount of blame, but even with “external partners” it’s still not a surprise. Even without other partners being named no third party developer has a worse reputation either for timetable work or overall reputation, they are renowned for fumbling opportunities to recreate big timetables like fife or E2G for example, and they are not very good at going back to fix it, and seem pretty terrible at listening to it as well. I even remember a while back (don’t have the proof so obviously take it as an anecdote) seeing comments criticising one of their YouTube videos, and whoever has control of rivets channel was replying to it and arguing with them, wether the original comment was constructive or not is something I do not remember, but still they seem to be the least professional developers when it comes to listening to feedback. Again, it’s not fair that they are seemingly receiving the blame, but they had a lot of opportunities to improve their content and reputation
I'm guessing there's no patch being released in time for the full launch tomorrow? I'd be happy enough to live with the timetable, providing DTG follow through with a decent update.
Any patches will be after the release but no timetable for the updates (As in they don't know when they'll come, not that they won't do anything for timetables...if that makes sense lol)
From the impression I got from Skyhooks latest post, it's them doing the new timetable for Fife Circle. I could be mistaken and they just meant for the 158/Leven branch
Historically patches have taken months or have never arrived at all. As regards decent.. that's another conversation in its own right.
Well, things aren't looking good for the Fife Leven Branch extension right now. If Rivet Games have been working on WCML South these last few months, we can probably expect the Leven Branch to be a low-priority rush job. Though being a free update, Rivet probably weren't going to give it high priority to begin with, seeing as it's not earning them any money.
Not up to scratch in terms of content quality, timetable and it crashes. It all screams it wasn't beta tested enough on all platforms and rushed out.
Yeah but I enjoy it still because I havent got content on this game since March so i think thats why. I do love DRIVING the trains its just the AI services which are the issue
I'm curious about this as a barometer for my own concerns- does the lighting in the tunnels not bother you? (The way the cab lights up periodically as you drive through them). Also the poor lighting in Euston with carriages in direct sunlight despite being in the station under cover? What about the washed out look of the lighting? Does the route as a whole not feel lifeless? Is it important to you that it closely replicate the real route in terms of traffic? As a small tangent, it's London. I haven't seen a single speck of an aeroplane in the sky, despite heathrow being just down the road. Again its a little detail but consequential for immersion, and hence replayability and enjoyment. Even elsewhere, contrails would greatly add to the sense of an outer world taking place. I ask purely because those are the issues that ruin it for me personally and I'm curious if you notice these or not.
You make good points here, these issues do disappoint me, yet I still get some enjoyment out of the route. I agree though there are many problems.
Yeah, good point, I am sure that has happened too. So beta testers didn't get long enough to test or didn't test wcml on all platforms, DTG or Rivet didn't listen to the beta testers or the development team, the quality control team wasn't listened to either. Where do you point the finger, if you think wcml is a mess it seems to be a reflection on what went on behind closed doors or what didn't.
We all love driving, that is why we all here. I am disappointed they haven't created train spotter mode thou Fair enough, you have saved your money and choose to spend it when you wanted. I do hope DTG fix wcml soon, but.....if I said it would get fixed this side Christmas it would be pushing it.
as far as im aware it doesnt cost extra to pre-order. It even has a discount so not sure where this "paid beta tester" thing comes from. its just an extra privilige for pre-order
When has a tsw launch ever been problem free? It is what it is, you either buy it or you don't. The choice is yours. I'm not looking for bugs but I have noticed a fair few, not letting that spoil the experience for me though.
I just think the main reason I enjoy this route so much is because I spent most of my childhood travelling on the WCML into London from the Midlands so it has a personal connection to me. Also in school holidays I would spend the afternoon spotting on the WCML at Tamworth which is further up the WCML and 390s were flying through and 350s were there stopping too. This was in the Virgin Trains/London Midland days.
It’s frankly shocking and disgusting that DTG would push something out in this condition (again). I really do get that deadlines have to exist, but bloody hell, when things are so noticeably wrong with a route, why not just hold it back. You’ll do way more damage to your reputation than delaying something a few weeks. It’s just completely unacceptable and DTG has to stop doing it going forward.
It's about trying to nudge it in the right direction rather than the more binary approach you describe, at least for me anyway. If there's genuinely no point in feeding back, then there's no point to this forum, and mediocrity will always be the default rather than a pursuit of 'better'. I'm not really built to sit back with "good enough", and am always trying to improve things. It's an uncomfortable process at times, but I care about the hobby, and the genre.
I have £100 waiting to be spent in my PSN Wallet. NOTE: I only ever spend money on my own PSN account on DTG content. All the other PSN content I play I go half with my brother on his PSN account so we can both play the same game. So, the question is DTG, do you want this £100 or don’t you?
I've found a documented cab ride video from Euston to Crewe on a Class 350. Something I recommend DTG should take a look at.
Is it possible to buy WCML as a single route dlc after the free update is available? It's a good option I think for those few who like me, are really only interested in the UK routes and who don't want to shell out for non desired US and German content, and especially if promised fixes arrive in short order. It's a good looking route, let down by solveable issues, and once those are sorted I'd happily buy it at full price. This short video on how to fast travel does showcase the good.
I wish we could buy TSW5 with the three bundled routes we actually want. I want WCML and Suffragette plus Preston/Carlisle, but am not particularly interested in the new US and German content. Buying it separately ends up being too expensive and you end up with stuff you don't use taking up space on your hard drive. I'm also sure there are US and German fans who have little interest in UK content but want drive their own local routes.
A 325 would be nice, although unless other segments of the WCML are made in the correct era there won't be much use for it.
Sheesh, 5 minutes of this and you can see where the issues begin! Having said that, I am still enjoying the 350 in particular. I think this route has massive potential as long as DTG sort it. Will that happen? Lets hope so!
