That's why I sneak the odd spare £5 note into the back of my wallet, then when I've got £20 set aside, "Off for a bike ride, dear", then rock up at Asda or Sainsburys and buy a £20 Steam wallet gift card. Avoids all sorts of angst...
Just my tuppence worth and apologies if it has been mentioned already. The slow lines should be 110 mph max, they've been that speed for years. Suspension seems too horse and cartish, if your train has airbag suspension it is more bouncy it's more like your driving a pre suspension change rail hammering AC loco! The bridge and tunnel reverb is way too quiet with the cab windows open and it goes quieter the faster you go which does not happen in reality.
Hi all, I'm planning to get WCML on release date. Without sparking a huge argument...what's everyone's general take on the timetable? How sparse are we talking? I can deal with the odd 710 missing on the DC lines - but not miles and miles of deserted track.
There are services missing and it's quite flawed but I still think its quite busy, and with a good variety. My main problem is the wrong calling pattern for some services. In an ideal world, a new timetable would be scratch made by DTG and released as an update, but the current one is OK for now.
As follows: Class 350 Most but not all services present, several service types have missing intermediate stops (especially around rush hour, where real services will commonly make additional stops), and timings are slacker than reality particularly on the fast services due to calculated rather than real-world timings being used (this means that for instance, most of the in-game Euston to Crewe services have an arrival time in TSW of something like 4.5 minutes later than reality, despite the real world timings being manageable if you drive competently). Some of the less frequent service types (eg. a service from Euston to St Albans at around 4pm) are missing entirely from the timetable. All services except Crewe-bound services are inaccurately 4 cars only instead of 8 cars as they would usually be in the real world. There are no 12-car services that I've found, and none of the services as far as I can see involve any coupling or uncoupling. Class 390 Most services present, timings after departure are slacker than reality due to calculated timings used rather than real-world timings. No Class 805 services are present in the timetable, only services that would be a 390 in reality (this isn't necessarily a bad thing but you should be aware). Class 710 Most services missing (approx 2/3 of the timetable is missing), with several 90-minute gaps between services in the middle of the day 72 Tube Stock Most services missing (approx 2/3 of the timetable is missing) with again large gaps Class 377/2 All but two services from reality are present (36 out of 38 services). Class 66 Most scheduled freight services are present, but instead of being as per reality with regards to the stock used, absolutely everything is intermodal freight (including, hilariously, 1S24 which is a Class 325 EMU in reality). Additionally, the appropriate maximum speeds for each freight headcode classification are ignored entirely, so you will frequently come across a Class 66 running a Class 6 freight on the slow lines at 100mph. I would not recommend this DLC in any way to anyone who cares remotely about the accuracy of freight services. It's quite easy to get stranded on the Watford DC line when playing a continuous session unless you use fast travel or are happy to wait for significant periods between services (45 minutes to an hour or more, even with both 710 and 72TS present). I have personally driven a 710 southbound from Watford to Euston and encountered just a single Tube service coming the other way over the whole trip. There are very, very few AI services to speak of, so don't expect many St Albans Abbey services at Watford (although I have seen one or two) and I don't think there are any North London Line services at all at Willesden Junction. In summary The main line is something approaching busy enough but there are several problems with timing, and the Watford DC line is very underserved. Freight is very inaccurate.
Having just drove a mid afternoon northbound DC lines service I concur with the above. I passed two tube trains, one in the turn back siding at Harrow and Wealdstone c/w passengers! I passed two other class 710's. The DC lines timetable is too quiet for sure. The actual service is fun to drive especially with the trains rushing past on the AC lines. I hadn't realised the timetable timings was not real world but calculated, I feel that this shouldn't be happening now. I still think the route is decent and does potentially have a lot of variety with the DC lines, stopping service on the AC lines, fast trains and freight, plus the tube trains, although I personally wouldn't bother driving those, I would just drive on Bakerloo. However the timetable does let it down, the thought of 100mph freight trains is ridiculous. It certainly isn't a timetable which matches DTG's usual offerings. If they can sort the timetable out (although I feel it could do with a new one with correct timings) and of course fix the lighting issues and other route bugs (which I am sure they will) then this could be one of the best routes in the sim potentially.
Echoing what others have said already, I don't like the way freight has been set up on this route. I've always disliked UK freight in TSW, mainly due to the sole freight loco we currently have, the 66. This route was the perfect opportunity to make freight interesting, but it was clearly just an afterthought. Why weren't any new wagons included, or better, a different loco? Freight is such an integral part of the WCML, but it sees the short end of the stick yet again.
The poor cousin if you like. Yeah, some nice freight wagons, maybe like cars on train wagons or pipes. Dare I say new freight loco?
Skyhook can potentially help out with that on their upcoming packs. Personally I’m hoping that container pack will include the Tesco rakes, combo’d with the DRS66. I know there’s obviously an issue with licensing which is why we don’t see Freightliner, GBRF & Maritime (which would be far more realistic for recent UK routes), but someone really needs to get a focus put on the UK freight locos. 92’s, 90’s 88’s, 70’s 68’s & 60’s are sorely needed.
To anyone holding off… I get why you’re doing so, I really do. However, Fulda and San Bernardino are really excellent and there’s a lot of gameplay there. WCMLS is not good enough by a long chalk but it’s not unplayable and it is enjoyable. It will be a nice route when it gets put in to the state it should have released in, officially or unofficially. The 390, in particular, is beautiful and a blast to drive. Although it may stick in your craw for all the reasons we know and love I’d say the 2 good routes alone are worth the £54. The 390 is excellent. WCMLS is a bonus route that is enjoyable and will get better. None of it excuses the problems, but I honestly don’t think you’d regret buying it. There are mods out there that improve things already and that will only grow as time goes on. I don’t regret buying it even with everything that’s been said. I just wish it didn’t all need saying.
That's true, but for those who have little interest in German or US Routes, there's not much value there for 54 quid. Even with interest, floating cars on the US route are just too poor when the highway parallels the railway for significant chunks. Once seen, the eyes are always going to those floating cars and immediately I start feeling like an idiot for buying something so LOVE, despite the excellent work done elsewhere. Likewise all the other well documented issues. I'm just tired of going through the same sorry saga every year now so screw it, the wallet stays shut So yeah, not convinced.
Well said. My only gripe with wcml is the poor timetable. I imagine it will be put right at some point. I certainly don't warrant avoiding it.
Once I see fixes for the lighting in tunnels on the wcml, in Euston and other issues, I'll buy happily at full price. If they don't get fixed, I've got other options to spend my money on. Train sims are not my only gaming interest and within the genre Century of Steam should release into early access soon.
Rubbish! I'm married and I can spend as much of my money as I wish, as long as the Mrs gives me permission!
Have to agree. About the freight. Also there are two services that are Sellafield and.dungeness to Crewe. They are Nuclear flask trains run by DRS. There's also an Old Dalby to Old Oak Common ECS listed as an intermodal. IMHO the route does have its good points and I like it, but it does have a lot not flaws operationally. But the freight timetable needs to be ripped up and redone. Also use the other rolling stock that comes with the other routes. The RHTT, Railtours, etc etc. Not only that static consists around Wembley and Willsden Yards. The people who did this timetable obviously never bothered to check Google maps to see what type of rolling stock was in the yards. Also they never checked RTT properly either. Hentis
Yeah, good point, but the only route I was interested in was wcml and from what I have seen the quality in the live streams and the feedback players have left on here about crashes. So, until DTG fix all of this I stand steady in terms of not buying TSW5. I didn't make this mess, so I will wait.
Same, wcml is too poor to warrant paying out £54 for a broken game. My money will be making interest in the mean time.
The only problem is, console players can’t get any of the mods, so if DTG doesn’t improve the route, we’ve given them money and they won’t learn their lesson - not that they’ll learn their lesson with me withholding purchase. Probably just cutting my nose off to spite my face at this point.
I get that absolutely, but dare I say it that’s an issue for console players. As a PC player you know there will be mods, console players don’t have that luxury. The decision for them is a different one I guess.
Yeah, the console players are stuck with what DTG hand out. PC players can have mods for their game, but why should it be down to other people who don't get paid to fix a game for people who do?
Honestly how did this route get through QA, so many issues. Seeing mixed reports of one of my many issues so not sure how it gets reproduced. Floating forest between Bushey and Watford (No mods installed)
I am quite happy with my purchase of the Deluxe version. I watched a cab ride video of WCML departing Euston and noticed the traffic loading for the cab ride video wasn’t that far off from the simulation. It isn’t like the simulation is devoid of traffic, but I am sure a more complete timetable would add to the route. I did install LondonMidlands signal improvement mode along with JetWash excellent mod . Running the football scenario was impressed with the visuals for an evening raining run. I have completed a few 390’s timetables as well and like the route. Being a Yank, not intimately familiar with the real world route, but comparing it to a cab ride video feel it is a good representation of the route. I have been in Euston Station a few times in my visits to the UK and it looked as I recall.. especially the concourse upon entering the station. Though it isn’t available on foot in the simulation, it looks like I remember it coming up from the tracks. All in all having a good time with my purchase.
We can dream This afternoon’s 6C20 trundled by our house with 70 807 at the front and 56 105 on the back. I’d love to see that in TSW. Are Colas reluctant to licence?
I’m playing on PS5 (deluxe) so no mods & no access to TSW4 content yet. I think overall, my previous opinion stands - this is pretty sloppy for current TSW standards. WCML is as I’ve seen others say, not as bad as I thought it was going to be. However that isn’t exactly a good thing. The current timetable is ok, it’s not bad, but it’s not good. Long term I don’t see me coming back to play this route without a new TT. Most of the other issues with WCML, DTG has said they’re working on & hopefully they’ll get those improvements out - but again most of those are things that should be standard, for me it’s a big problem that such basic things are being left unchecked. As I said, sloppy & doesn’t really represent what DTG can actually do. The 350 is an alright experience, it sits between the 700 & 380 for me. I think the 380 soundset has more definition to it, but overall it’s a pretty decent drive, as far as an EMU goes. It does really need the suspension on it, and again back to branding, I really hope this can be brought back. The 390 overall is again decent. I don’t think it’s especially *wow* like other rolling stock has been, but it’s enjoyable none the less. I really think they nailed the interior & exterior of it & it certainly evokes more than a sense of familiarity. The sounds are a mixed bag, the exterior is really, really good. It has pretty much all the unique sounds that you’d hear from a 390 (other than running). The interior sounds fall down a little, up to 40mph there is some pretty bad looping & overall is more inaccurate, but not bad. I think my biggest overall problems with the rolling stock is that DTG seems to be going too far in showing how insulated cabs are. Sure, they actually are quiet IRL, but IRL you get so much more feedback which just isn’t there in TSW. I think that DTG need to consider this before going overboard with the noise dampening. In summary, it needs work. There are worse routes in TSW, but there are better. As an experience it’s a pretty muted route, the combination of lacking TT, no LNR branding, incorrect consists, areas of questionable scenery (which is also too sterile), lighting issues & PIS issues really drag it down. There are too many niggly problems that overwhelm it - the good news is that DTG seem to be on track to knock most of them back in line. Once it’s up to a better standard core wise, the TT really needs expanding, both service wise & layer wise. That being said, taking the 390 into its 125mph tilt through Berkhamstead is a real treat.
Yeah, wcml really shouldn't have launched in this condition at all, no might or maybe, it just shouldn't have got past quality control period. If the problems were found in quality control, but quality control gets over riden, then what's the point in having quality control? So, either DTG seen it or they didn't or seen it too late to do anything about it?
The timetable is absolutely shambolic, incorrect headcodes for movements that are not intermodal eg Dungeness to Crewe which is infact 68s and nuclear flasks…, there’s loads of underground and tfl services missing. Whoever did the timetable clearly has 0 clue what they are doing
Yeah this is where they lose me, they only started working on problems the other day. By that point it had been over 2 weeks since the preview & even then, surely DTG should have seen the issues with it beforehand. It only realistically leaves the conclusion that DTG were absolutely fine to push it out in the standard it was at, only working on the problems after the public calls them out says a lot to me. Even if you discard the things we’d like to see such as the timetable improvements, core things such as lightbaking should have absolutely been addressed.
There is a theory knocking around that Rivet done the wcml route, which if that is the case they handed the route over to DTG late maybe and nothing could have been done in time? Then that raises the question why didn't DTG do, what were they at?
Rivet and other external partners played a part. Although no one reads the bit in bold, they focus too much on the word Rivet.
That's even worse, more than one party means it is even a bigger mess and it will be a nightmare to try and clean this up as those parties will probably have to be involved.
Well, I spent most alot of the weekend playing TSW5 and the WCML South. I have really enjoyed it more than I thought I would. The route looks great so well done to all involved. The Class 390 is a beautiful train to drive and I enjoy going 125mph and tilting through stations with them. The only disappointment is that it all ends quickly and Im at Euston or MK before I know it. The Class 350 is also good to drive and I had fun with these too. The sound is so realistic too I actually feel like im at the station or on the train for real. I also tried the Conductor mode and found that to be quite interesting and fun too even though I made some wrong decisions by mistake. However there are issues with this line, the London Overground timetable is so bad, You only see 1 maybe 2 trains before Watford, or vice versa. The Underground isnt much better. There really needs to be an increase in the number of services on these lines to make it even better. Another issue is that whenever it is raining, I am crashing whenever I do some kind of action. Once for just getting out of the seat, and another for exiting a tunnel. This is on PS5. Overall my opinion of the route is positive and I really enjoy driving it.
I do find it slightly unfair that they are receiving such a hefty amount of blame, but even with “external partners” it’s still not a surprise. Even without other partners being named no third party developer has a worse reputation either for timetable work or overall reputation, they are renowned for fumbling opportunities to recreate big timetables like fife or E2G for example, and they are not very good at going back to fix it, and seem pretty terrible at listening to it as well. I even remember a while back (don’t have the proof so obviously take it as an anecdote) seeing comments criticising one of their YouTube videos, and whoever has control of rivets channel was replying to it and arguing with them, wether the original comment was constructive or not is something I do not remember, but still they seem to be the least professional developers when it comes to listening to feedback. Again, it’s not fair that they are seemingly receiving the blame, but they had a lot of opportunities to improve their content and reputation
I'm guessing there's no patch being released in time for the full launch tomorrow? I'd be happy enough to live with the timetable, providing DTG follow through with a decent update.
Any patches will be after the release but no timetable for the updates (As in they don't know when they'll come, not that they won't do anything for timetables...if that makes sense lol)
From the impression I got from Skyhooks latest post, it's them doing the new timetable for Fife Circle. I could be mistaken and they just meant for the 158/Leven branch
Historically patches have taken months or have never arrived at all. As regards decent.. that's another conversation in its own right.
Well, things aren't looking good for the Fife Leven Branch extension right now. If Rivet Games have been working on WCML South these last few months, we can probably expect the Leven Branch to be a low-priority rush job. Though being a free update, Rivet probably weren't going to give it high priority to begin with, seeing as it's not earning them any money.
Not up to scratch in terms of content quality, timetable and it crashes. It all screams it wasn't beta tested enough on all platforms and rushed out.
