Wcml Preston To Crewe Discussion

Oh-kay with regard to the discussion/debate over Class 47 differences and variants getting a little heated, can I just redirect folks to the wonderful but now sadly gone Class 47 website (still works via the wayback machine) https://web.archive.org/web/20191026172537/https://www.class47.co.uk/

As for 58s, well I just stumbled upon a photo of what turned out to be a regular 58 working from the Midlands up to Garston Docks with coal for export, this image is taken in 1989 and just look at the traffic in the yard https://flic.kr/p/29HQdFr

Also for equality sake here is a 56 doing the same in 1987 - https://flic.kr/p/2oeS7dP

Sadly though Garston isn't included, or if it is then JT have kept it under wraps along with the route map...

Yes I agree, from both sides too In theory this route being in the 0-3 month category should have dropped around October/November but here we are... Still, you can't rush art (to quote that old man in Toy Story 2).

I do think they are looking at "loco packs", the 86 was a good example of that, we got a new locomotive and some coaches as well as it layering into existing routes. Largely the feedback was positive so hopefully that inspires them to go out and do more

 

There's a long list of traction I'd like to see in new and existing routes. I've never felt that it's a case of developers being lazy that they're not in the game, more a decision to include the most common types that will be useful across several routes. Maybe there aren't enough 1980s/1990s northern freight routes in the pipeline so UK TSW locomotive development is going to be elsewhere for a while.

 

JT are pretty much our only hope. DTG seem to have given up UK route building let alone anything vintage diesel or electric. The other 3P's all seem fixated on post 2010 or in the case of Skyhook, have thrown the towel in.

 

I’m with you there on the 56. The game is crying out for one. One of my all time fave locos.

 

I prefer to think that DTG have gone quiet on UK route building because they're cooking something truly spectacular that'll be right up my street.

It's the hope that kills you.

 

Correct. Thomas. Out Tuesday.

 

Have they been involved in a full-scale project since GOBLIN? Maybe on the German side?

 

I have pretty much given up hope now. I day one the JT stuff as its decent era and wait for sales usually with the DB stuff. SDD starting to fill now though. I dip in and out of Modern UK stuff as its usually ok for a run or two then boredom. The DB stuff is better as a lot more traction available.

If I want something era specific I will model it now in N gauge. Currently doing a North Clyde electric layout set in the early 90s. Something I know has absolutly no hope of appearing in any train sim platform. Even in TSC the routes are set in the current day era (2010 onwards).....

 

Class 303’s still kicking about then?

 

I'd love to see all the BR diesels eventually represented, So much variety that we're missing.

 

Yes 303s until 2000s, I have a liking for 26s so have 5 of them in N, like BR of the time only 2 actually work!

 

With you on that re the 26’s. Even over a 50, 55 or another WR hydraulic I want to see one in TSW. Of all the Rats they were my favourite (well the 24’s had largely gone anyway by the time I started bashing), just something about the front end and rasping away north of Inverness towards Wick or across to Kyle.

If JT ever did part of the GSW from Carlisle, they were still in use on some of the loco hauled services as I remember catching the 06 something from Carlisle to Glasgow on a freezing January morning in 1985 (jeez, over 40 years ago) and the 26 was steaming away nicely heating the 5 coach rake of lovely old Mark Ones. The kids who love their one handled air conditioned DMU’s and EMU’s with less thrash and personality than a Toyota Yaris, don’t know what they missed.

 

I managed to get one of the last mainline turns with a pair when they did a out an back to Kyle on a Summer Wednesday in 1993. I get the feeling now modern train crew would fail them based on the off beat engine splutter which gives them a lot of character.

A world away from a 158 or 170....

The fact they carried on longer than the other Sulzer type 2s was testament to their ruggedness. If Ravenscraig had not closed 26s would have been around for even longer!!

Anyhow 26s are OT I guess for this thread but the 25 would be the one needed for target 15 off Arpley!!

 

Remember when Northern hired in DRS 37s to operate the Cumbrian Coast services a decade ago? Things were fine when the DRS drivers were on it but once it got handed over to Northern... Some guys were ok, they were thrash merchants and enjoyed it but the boil in the bag lot were pathetic, they'd fail them for anything. I remember one soppy cow failed it "because the brakes were not working properly" - she was using the brakes like it was a Sprinter, using the train brake and only the train brake rather than using the loco brake as well so of course whenever she tried to move off it rolled back. That lot were scared of real trains, frankly should've been told to jump into the Irish Sea with their traps round their neck. Failing the DBSO's however, yeah that was fine because they were poop.

Funnily enough I had a row with a gob-poop politician in that area who "demanded new trains" to replace the "ancient steam era stock" being used by the DRS sets, as of course there was that blockade on the WCML at one point so he asked Wild West to operate a shuttle from Windermere to Oxenholme then praised his efforts. He didn't like being called out in that the locomotives were a similar vintage and the coaching stock was the same age but in DRS' case they had been refurbished this side of the millennium unlike the ex-Virgin stock which probably saw a fitter some time in the late 1990s...

I'm going off one one again, I'm walking away and making a brew

Oh, Toyota Yaris, I like that one

 

I remember being begged by the Northern staff whilst travelling pass to work one of their trains because “they didn’t feel comfortable”. Absolute nonsense. Couldn’t oblige as I was on the way for a job during a 12hr stint!

 

The seats are on a par too, after about 45 minutes iy gets really uncomfortable, as in bum numbing, leg aching uncomfortable. First car I've had that has been like that, even going back to my early motoring days of plastic/faux leather seats.

 

Ha, they had one at Preston drag the Lord Mayor up from the stock to take a look at it once which went about as well as you'd expect

I remember me and two mates setting up at Parton for a day of filming them while they were still T&T, didn't realise there were no pubs any more and the nearest off license was in Whitehaven, had to leave our cameras and gear with the oldest chap while us two yomped up hill on a beer run, good times

 

some interesting story's on here. the class 25s were still around in 86 looking on here https://www.class25.info/. some interesting moves especially the aberdeen penzance which was dragged from preston via man vic and stockport to crewe. bet that was a job n half getting up miles platting with that load on. there's also a carlisle preston drag and some man vic blackpool services so would fit on all 3 routes. from some of the clips and photos of 80s TP services i've found the 56 would fit as ai on the stanlow oils and would suit more on a NTP remaster than preston crewe.

i did find this link that may be of interest both for preston crewe and a NTP remaster https://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/Stanlow Tanks/

 

I still can't believe they've set all four LMR routes a matter of months too late for the APT.

You want something totally different in TSW, the Advanced Passenger Train would be that. And imagine the huge list of faults that could come with what turned out to be the prototype for British Rail's ultimate express train; the Eastern Region's mighty 225/Electra/Class 91 sets.

 

To be fair the APT could be "fudged in" if needed, the same way that the 40 drops onto Shap. The issue with the APT is getting all of the sounds to a high enough quality and of course willpower. I know the guys at Crewe Heritage would happily oblige with sound recording sessions where possible as well as any photos for research, laser scanning for modelling etc but it all comes down to a developer having the willpower/desire to push for the APT knowing that it is a pretty risky venture compared to something like a 25/50/56/60 as of course the APT would be limited both in terms of route (fudged in for Shap/Preston-Crewe and fantasy railtour for Crewe-Brum/Trent Valley/Euston-MK) and service capability. The timetable would either have to be some fantasy where they entered squadron service so there were dozens of them running or their limited services which would see one/two runs per day with a few ECS moves or test runs thrown in for good measure.

I would of course love the APT being brought in, heck I used to enjoy giving it a good ragging back on BVE

 

DTG did a pretty good job of the APT in TSC which I gather was with the help of the Crewe Heritage centre.

But yes, you're right about the lack of timetable possibilities unless we're in dreamland and all of the sets were serviceable at the same time. Maybe one for in a few years to give sales of the JT WCML sections a lift. I mean, they did Thomas the Tank Engine which, I'm told, isn't even real.

 

Would love the apt for the wcml and possibly a cl50 too. The route looks excellent from the screen shots

 

Personally there are many more period DLCs I'd want to see before APT.

If they make the APT I wouldn't purchase it. I've now removed the heavy freight pack as nearly every run you see at least two class 40's, no wonder as it can appear on about 70 services so it seems. They could at least have reduced it to about 20, it would cut down the chances of seeing I or you might see it once which I wouldn't mind. Or maybe make it driveable only.

 

There would be only one correct 40 its in Green and nimbered D200. Maybe unusual to see more than one of it....

 

That's the one we don't see only blue ones, they seem to appear more than the class 47.

I've seen two on freight trains and one hauling some air-conditioning stock recently. It features too much I wouldn't object if you saw it once.

I know I'm one of the few irritated by it. I do love their routes and due to the era JT routes are the ones I get most excited about.

 

Is this on Shap? Do you have the 86 DLC? It's my understanding that the 86 DLC basically swaps in for almost all of the 40/45/47/87 cross country services with just a few outliers to keep things spicy.

What? Next you will be saying that Father Christmas isn't real either

 

I was about in the mid to late 80s on the railway a lot and thats when I remember sightings the most and saw D200 once at Man Vic in the loco siding near the old exchange station. That was it for 40s.

 

I would love D200 in the game and on Shap.

 

Yes I have the 86 and it's on Shap.

 

Ah, that's unfortunate, sorry I can't really help :/

 

Thanks I just have to remove the heavy freight pack which doesn't lose too many services. It's not a big deal really the route is one of my favourites and I'm looking forward to tue next two JT routes.

 

The APT would be a really nice addition or nudging the timetable a few years to 1989 and getting some class 90s and DVTs. I’m guessing not much track and scenery wise would’ve changed in 3-4 years?

 

Or build on what we have in the era decipted, 81s or 85s, Sleeper coaches. 25s, 56s etc. The 90s are coming but in todays form. I wouldnt have issue if the JT routes had newer timetables if the likes of 90s and DVTs were added. Would prefer the current timetables to be accuratley padded out first though....

 

I personally prefer the era JT have chosen or earlier, as while the operating department would have appreciated the arrival of DVTs very much, it makes for a less interesting timetable with fewer light engine movements. Although I would certainly welcome a separate timetable set around then should a passenger 90 pack be made.