Dtg Are You Actually Trolling The Community?!

Their silence tells me that there is ' Trouble at Mill ' so to speak. Community Managers have been extremely quiet and have not been very forthcoming about any updates or fixes of the multiple bugs recently. Especially after a plethora of DLC releases in the last months. So I wonder whats going on at Dovetail headquarters ?

 

It smells like the end

 

Ah yes, announcing that they have nothing to announce

 

It's not the first time that message ("we don't have any streams this week") has gone out and it probably won't be the last. Expressing your opinion is one thing, pointless conjecture is another. I suspect people at DTG are hurting right now, projects have been thrown up in the air, etc. Give them time to grieve (that's what it feels like) and I'm sure they will eventually tell us what's next.

 

More likely it sounds like they got too big for their boots, New York VR was terrible, TSW Tycoon seems to have gone nowehere, The Thomas franchise will be a plethora of DLC now, TSW itself has huge problems with the continuing saga of blurry textures on consoles and tons of bugs and "mistakes" that seem to have gotten very common with DTG producing very little in-house any more. DLC rushed out unfinished and shown on livestreams with half-baked promises of patching over the cracks somewhere down the line. Third parties waiting months and months for their respective DTG partners to sign off patches and bug fixes. The same "this shouldn't have happened" happening again and again to the point of mistrust at anything players are told.

1: DTG need to focus on the core TSW coding and fix the textures and bugs and core features that don't work.
2: They need their third party team to step up and help third party teams get patches tested and pushed out to players much much faster, not several months down the line.
3: Close the forums if DTG consider paying lip service is acceptable.

 

why are people getting their knickers in a twist that there’s no streams this week? it’s not a roadmap week, there’s no imminent dlc, what else would they do? there’s obviously not enough engagement with the CM streams to make it worthwhile so i’m not sure what people are expecting

 

DTG could finally give us users the important updates this week – some of which have been pending at DTG for a very long time.

So they could clear some of that backlog and finally release these updates.

 

It happens every so often. A molehill is encountered and before you know it a mountain is formed. Then it quietens down for a bid, then repeats ad-infinitum.

I honestly think some have too much time on their hands.

 

DTG usually makes their yearly plans end of february / march every year.

With all the DLC that was released in march this year I bet they are a bit late with the meetings / planning for this year and that is probably what is going on.

 

They need to decide which new Core features will be added to TSW 7 so they can start implementing them in June/July. They will then, in August/September, let us know again that the announced features are not ready and will be added to the game after launch.

 

Morale at DTG must be very low right now, understandably.

 

TSW6 Core Features....

Train Faults - never tested before release, most people turned them off because they popped up literally every second.

TSR - still to this date all come up at 40mph and two carriages long. Never fixed, even though Matt told everyone on a livestream "it's just a tick box that needs selecting to fix it".

It's either incompetence or deliberate lies to sell software.

 

Pure conjecture.

Just because a company is very busy doesn't mean morale is low. Being busy and it leading to some positive improvements in the pipeline can be a very satisfying place to be. In fact I've worked on and also led projects that were insanely hard work and morale was excellent, as was the buzz when there's a positive outcome.

My least favourite jobs were the boring ones.

 

I'm surprised we haven't had so much as a warning or something in these threads honestly. I thought at least one of these would be locked by now or we'd have had some edits on posts?

The thing is that DTG were actually trying with the engagement when one CM started they were everywhere and chatting with everyone and taking things down which was a massive breath of fresh air. But it seems to have slipped a little.

I listened to a podcast from another developers community team earlier and he spoke a lot about how they released a piece of content that went down really badly and he took it really personally as he was involved in that release. But he realised they had to detach the feedback from taking it personally because it's just the players telling the Devs what they want. Now he's dived even more into the community engagement and the games in the best state it's ever been because of that engagement with the community.

 

would you engage with a community that is shaming staff for taking annual leave or do nothing but over-exaggerate bugs to the point of abusing staff.

 

let's be realistic... train faults = bugs intentionally introduced into an already buggy game
what could go wrong, huh?

 

I get 4 weeks of vacation a year and I take it when I schedule it. The sky could be falling, everything could be on fire, it doesn’t matter. Does that mean I hate my job? Nope. Does that mean I don’t care? Nope. Someone else can handle it or it can wait till I get back. There’s always going to be a fire to fight.

 

And we’re going to be pushed to redownload all of our DLC with fun new bugs in the next instalment to both get the patches that are stuck in QA hell and a useless gimmick feature that doesn’t work properly, Yay! It’s sad really, most bugs I spot are on run 1 of a new route which begs the question if content is even tested at all beyond the ‘timetable simulation’ thing, when even the low hanging fruit doesn’t get fixed what hope do we have for rarer and harder to fix bugs to be noticed and fixed.

 

absolutely

 

Sometimes you can never win with the public though.
1. Member of team goes on holiday because they're entitled to it = They should be working.
2. Tightly moderate forum = "They're trying to silence us".
3. Let the forums police themselves = "They've given up".
4. Keep posting regular updates = They should be working on things instead of updating us.
5. Work on things instead of updating us = There's no communication, what are they doing?
6. Release a fix = that wasn't the fix I was waiting for.
7. Release the fix someone was waiting for = other things need fixing.
8. Release something new = they should have sorted the old things out.
9. Stop new releases and just fix bugs = no income, DTG closes and we don't have a hobby anymore.

I'm not saying the balance is right, I appreciate that some are very disappointed people, there is always an outstanding job, I look forward to this being a happier community and I want TSW to be the best it can realistically be. I hope everyone at DTG is okay, especially as the MR news may have been unsettling.

And for those at Just Trains, look at the front of those trains in my photo, look carefully, you're feeling sleepy, your next release is a 1980s or 90s Eastern Region electrified route...and you're back in the room.

 

It’s funny isn’t it?! People getting very dramatic and assuming the worst.

So let me get this straight the community is angry today because there’s no potential update for a potential DLC release, for a DLC that they were never gonna buy anyway?! As usual it’s the same old boycott the next DLC.

The same names are always in the “Feedback” threads having purchased a new piece of DLC, yet you can bet that they are also the most vocal in threads such as this too. Bewildering.

 

If I had a dollar for everytime someone has posted that DTG are going bankrupt, shutting down or in big trouble I could afford the game plus all DLC again.

Just because there are no streams doesn't mean anything.

 

DTG's parent company mentioned (and thereby confirmed) the "next iteration of Train Sim World" on their pretty positive investors' call less than a week ago (the day after they announced Metro Rivals was being suspended), so all the talk of bankruptcy or the end of TSW is absolute nonsense at this stage.

JB

 

I mean, sure, it's conjecture- i don't have any inside sources. Just observation from what i've gleaned reading these various threads. I believe one of the CMs said as much that it's a really hard time for the team right now (paraphrasing).

Seeing nearly-completed projects cancelled, and colleagues being laid-off isn't generally good for morale at any job i've ever had.

Doesn't mean things can't or won't turn around though.

 

You can't cut out all of your community engagement because of a couple of people who take it too far though. You moderate/ban those who push the limits and you take onboard feedback where it needs to be taken on board. Look at some of the top routes we've had for TSW6 the same developers get good reactions from the community for a reason. The reason people get passionate and cross a line is because they are frustrated. Which does not excuse that behaviour and crossing the line is not okay and staff should absolutely not be abused because of it.

The whole last part of my post talked about a community team lead who had to work through those exact issues and in turn the game is better for it. Part of working in any community team or in any job with public scrutiny is cutting out the abuse and the hate and engaging with the positive side who provide important feedback.

Isolating the community from the development of the game is not how you run a successful game. When things weren't good enough Sam used to stand up and said on streams "This isn't good enough we're sorry" and he was in our corner. That's also why I appreciated the CM who was very active all over the forum, they did a great job of engaging and you could see how hard they were working. Whether those things went higher is another matter but I'm sure they did what was in their power from the work they put in

 

Yeah.. she runs the house, absolutely no doubt

 

Couldn't have said it any better. At this point, I would completely understand DTG if they'd close their forums altogether since many discussions in recent months have quickly degraded into ranting, whining and complaining. Threads like this very one are a prime example

I don't say that everything is ok with TSW right now, far from it.
I don't say that DTG is handling public relations and communication perfectly either.
And I don't say that people shouldn't complain about issues and problems which clearly exist.

But does anyone miss the times when criticism has been constructive, or is it just me? And on the other hand I'd like this constructive criticism being acknowledged and taken seriously. Honestly, both sides have to shoulder some blame here. DTG should try to get closer to the community, but I don't blame them for not wanting to as long as a sizeable part of the community is waiting for them with torches and pitchforks in hand.

 

Wasn't going to wade in on this discussion, but I think it's worth adding my thoughts at this point.

I started playing at TSW 2 stage I think, when they did the Bakerloo Line anyway. Back then, the game was relatively small in terms of core and DLC and I think all of it was developed and released by DTG. They seemed to hold the core game development and development of DLC close and were active in seeking community feedback and engaging with users to make the game better.

Now, and maybe it is increased rapidly more recently, the core game is old and only modified to create additional features to add new interest or realism and DLC are produced by third parties. As such, the game has a long legacy and a decentralised approach to new content development. It isn't owned quite so closely by DTG anymore.

DTG will have their own idea of what good looks like for the game, but it is definitely different now than whe I started. The game is definitely still the best train driving sim by a very long way, no doubt, and this includes consideration of it's bugs and quirks.

 

You know, the important part of your post is this setence.
DTG is so seperated from its community, see e.g. "the big reveal" a few years back (no, not the Thomas one, the other one, a few years before, it was even worse). Promises from Matt on livestreams that increase hope that DTG is actually not so far seperated from the community, but soon afterwards it's clear, the promises were either false and never made the game or are in an unacceptable state (e.g. random events).
In the end, if you stay on this forum a few years, you can see a clear pattern. New people joining with a new iteration of TSW, having hope in DTG, engaging in interesting discussions in this forum. A few months forward, the hope turned into frustation towards DTG and some of them vanished completely from TSW, while others open threads on the state of the game.

 

I think accusing people of exaggerating bugs to justify complaining, without any evidence, is pretty extreme and quite inflammatory. Perhaps the person in question would like to present his evidence. If he can’t, he should apologise and withdraw his comments.

 

Must admit I’ve just spent time reading this whole thread and the one thing that really jumps out at me is not once, unless I’ve scrolled past, has anyone from DTG had the nerve to respond. Bit like WWI & II, hunkered down in the trenches with tin hats on. I’ve been getting very annoyed over the last few years of the hollow promises to fix fairly obvious bugs in the game. These bugs are so obvious that during any testing they would leap out with a sign saying “I’m a big ugly bug “. The last DLC’s I’ve bought was 805 (refunded) and 90. These are on X Box series X. No other game that I’ve got and play have bugs, or not that are obvious. Honestly feel DTG lost a lot of momentum when they got sold a few years back. Now they are part of a corporate entity and anyone who has worked for a company in that situation will be aware how things go.
My situation has made me think twice about buying any DLC for this game. Having made a decision I will no longer be parting with my money on this game. The DLC’s that I have will keep me playing. From time to time IF and WHEN anything appears that draws my attention then I will consider it. Sales plus Microsoft rewards may take enough off to make it a no brainier but this is one customer that DTG has successfully annoyed enough that they will no longer get money from me and I bought every DLC like most of you up to a year ago. Now if hundreds of people are doing the same it’s going to be as dead as Kelsey’s nuts before too long.

 

Watch it or the hurty word police will be around followed swiftly by accusations of exaggeration! You naughty boy!

 

I believe that most are exaggerating most issues and why communicate with a community if there is nothing to report or if they are receiving abuse over these exaggerated bugs. I certainly don’t fancy communicating with whining people who frankly need to grow up and possibly go outside

 

Again with the infighting...

I don't believe people are exaggerating their issues and bugs, there is just no benefit to it. There's a problem and you spot it, you mention it. Like I've reported around 10 bugs across TSW5 & 6, those are the ones that I've seen or encountered be it a small error or something that crashes the game altogether. I don't see any benefit for me to make up a dozen more problems as that means the bug-busting team will be running around looking for things that aren't actually broken.

Granted some people are more unlucky due to their system set-up or choice of platform and might see more bugs than others, doesn't mean they are wrong either.

As someone else further up the thread said, the sound of silence from DTG is shocking however, has someone struck a nerve? Or is it a case of DTG HQ telling CM's not to comment, it happens, sometimes for good/genuine reasons and other times for bad. Still it would be nice to have one of the DTG crew turn up and say "we hear you, we're not going to fix it but we hear you"...

 

This is rose-tinted glasses. DTG were just as bad back then.

 

There appears to be an update for Thomas & Friends Wonders of Sodor coming on the 27th of April, I wonder if this might have been eating up some of the time of the DTG team to some degree?
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/3743790/view/493849057074086445?l=english

 

I’m not entirely sure, but didn’t DTG say that the team working on *Thomas & Friends: Wonders of Sodor* is different from the team responsible for *TSW*?

Because I can’t imagine that the entire DTG team is now working solely on *Thomas & Friends: Wonders of Sodor*; and if they are, that’s a slap in the face for the customers who spent their money on *TSW*.

 

This is where I draw the line. The discord chat. 99% is off topic nonsense that belongs in private chat.

 

Considering the file structure of WoS is the same as TSW, it must’ve poached some staff away from TSW. It’s so similar that you can make Sodor show in TSWs menu but something is causing a crash if I attempt to load it, I imagine some missing assets.

 

To be honest I took one look on a YouTube video and thought "that's just TSW with a different coat on" (gross oversimplification I know), it's clearly used it as a base. I wonder has anyone tried putting TSW locos in it?

 

The answer:

 

Makes me wonder if it is a separate thing because of the response to the first Thomas thing they did.

 

People tried it on release, it worked moving TSW locos to TTTE but not the other way.

 

I think that you can only use loco's that were not created for TSW6 for TTTE, the TSW6 ones crashed it from memory (so that's the 220 + 802 etc)

 

I think someone mentioned the game is based on TSW5. Might be worth seeing if you can transfer the TTTE locos to 5.

 

Just placing myself in DTGs shoes (insert third rail joke later), it must be insane seeing the inner workings of your workplace being debated at length by customers in a forum.

It must be frustrating, demotivating if you let it get to you, sometimes it may act as timely reminder and sometimes it must be quite funny when there's a particularly bad opinion stated as fact based on nothing but vibes and fresh air.

And DTG while I've got your attention from across the estuary, I really don't like where you've put the office water cooler, you should put it over there next to the Health & Safety noticeboard.

 

Don’t worry, the morality police tell us that it’s too toxic for DTG to be in this forum anyway.

 

Maybe there are plain clothed agents among us? One of them may have just posted "Folkestone to Folkestone Harbour" in the Suggestions thread which is code for.....actually, I've said too much.

 

My money would be on the chap called "Sierra Oscar" though maybe I've been watching too many episodes of The Bill