Train Sim World 7 - Discussion

i’m very optimistic for this one. completely reworked steam, the 140, a route in a beautiful region of germany, if tsg get it right it’ll be one of the best tsw routes ever. my only concern is that it could cost upwards of £35

 

Yeah that's what I think, too!

 

Someone touched on it earlier, but TSW feels much more like a closed shop that TSC, which over time allowed somewhat niche things to be developed that might not have a massive commercial benefit. I always thought it somewhat odd that with Matt P in a senior position, and the general success that UKTS had with him at the helm, that TSW went in this direction - if anyone could’ve seen the opportunities (and I suppose the risks), I’d have thought it was him.

I also wonder whether all the simugraph stuff has been worth it - I remember when it was first being discussed it was envisaged as a tool that would let you simulate everything, but it seems that actually, it’s an overhead that causes complexity and has been simplified due to the demands it creates.
I hated the TCS world editor for a long time, with its lofts and changing track gradients and it’s big mesh, but it still feels many time more accessible that the UE4 editor, let alone the many times as many assets that are available for creating your own route/diorama etc.

I don’t really hold out much hope that TSW7 will be much more that a load of similar things to what we have now, probably with similar issues. Maybe if there is a new start soon, we night get the flexibility of TSC with the visuals and timetables of TSW…..

 

I myself haven’t played TSW 6 for at least 5 months.
The reasons for this are too long to go into here, but most users are aware of the problems with TSW 6.

Instead of releasing TSW 7, DTG really ought to finally get round to sorting out the smudged textures, the performance issues and the many, many bugs.
DTG introduced two new features in TSW 6 that could have been fun, but they never worked properly from the start, and unfortunately DTG hasn’t really developed or improved these features either.

And the sheer number of new bugs introduced with TSW 6 updates or new DLCs is, in my view, no longer acceptable.
What’s more, DTG hasn’t fixed some of these bugs, which is what you’d actually expect them to do. After all, as someone who buys DLC, I don’t want to end up with new bugs, but apparently DTG doesn’t care.

And which of the features that DTG have included in the various TSW versions have actually been revised or improved afterwards?
I also don’t believe that all the problems which have been annoying console users in particular – and some PC users too – since TSW 5 have got any better in TSW 6.
And so I can hardly imagine that this will be resolved with TSW 7. For my part, I’ll be taking a close look at Dovetail Direct, and if it includes another poor-quality German route and Deluxe locomotive like that, I’ll just get the free update – if there is one this year.

And as long as DTG thinks they don’t need to sort out these problems, I won’t be buying any more new DLCs either. Because, given the state of TSW 6, things can’t go on like this.

 

143/112/114 mostly had issues with the e-braking and such... 143 and 114 are now kinda ok, but 143 has a bug where even if you recover quickly from Sifa penalty, you cant apply power unless you stop (aka traction lock stays)... 112 has ....ed up e-braking when blended... which is a shame, cos that kind of controls is so much fun when it works

but yeah, would love to see new traction in the game, Desiro ML, Mireo, Stadler KISS 160 and 200... Desiro HC...

 

I see the ambassadors have been to visit DTG, no doubt their look at TSW7. I just hope they’re honest if it’s rubbish and another underwhelming reveal.

 

In any situation(even if there is a buggy junk), it will sound like "This is the best that could have happened, it's worth waiting for".

 

The sad thing is, I think this upcoming DTG direct has probably the least community anticipation I've witnessed in years... It's going to have to be something fairly promising not only in terms of the routes but a matching performance and optimisation.

To see the majority of the community who disagree at the best of times come together and feel jointly deflated about the whole thing really speaks volumes. I'm not trying to disrespect DTG in anyway with this post (there are some really good eggs on the team who are enthusiastic and good at what they do and have created some notably tremendous stuff in the past), but you know things are going south when you have people who are usually disagreeable with each other coming together and both agreeing that TSW quality has dropped off so much that they aren't excited and already feel deflated knowing blurring and ongoing issues are going to effect their experience. There are also a few already willing to throw in the towel at the moment... And I've got to admit I'm not far behind at moment, and a feeling I never thought I'd feel about this game. And it would genuinely be sad to walk away from what is one of my favourite games, but I can't keep paying for content and getting more frustration out of it, more then I do joy.

There are a few of us, since TSW5, who have been quite vocal in warning DTG that they really need pull their socks up in terms of performance otherwise they are taking their customers for granted, and I feel for a while that they had some room to manoeuvre... But unfortunately that room has run out as we (on Gen9 atleast) are finally willing to throw in the towel. I think unfortunately optimisation improvements we have received have been implemented very late in the day to try and improve the game, and unfortunately the issues have just spiralled out of control because they weren't confronted straight away and built up over time. It is only since Medway Valley that some substantial changes have been made, but there's still a hell of a lot to do.

I'm trying to be fair, and constructive, and I'm sure DTG are getting the work done behind the scenes now, as they've started to realise the longer they leave it, the more complicated the issues get with every DLC or additional title of the game. But I have to say we as a community have been saying this for years, before it spiralled out of control to the extent it has.

I do sincerely wish that somehow TSW7 (or whatever the title will be called) every success when it releases, and I also sincerely hope DTG have really improved the ongoing blurring saga quite drastically... I was incredibly disappointed last year when TSW6 mentioned 'improvements and optimisation' as one of its selling points, but none of it actually reached us and when they did it was only because of Firefly releasing Medway Valley and also implementing the optimisation on SEHS and we are still awaiting for the same noticeable improvements to be rolled out for the majority of content... (there have been some improvements and optimisation and I note that, but not as drastic as I expected). Atleast for TSW5/6 alot of the issues we are running into feels like it could of been avoidable in the first place in terms of blurring and optimisation... But instead the issues have just piled up, and up, and resulting in the current predicament we find ourselves in (on Gen9 atleast, can't speak for PC players). The game has a lot to offer when it works well and is probably the best train simulator about when it's actually running okay.

I think as much as I and others feel a bit deflated about DTG direct, DTG really need to recognise there is a lot riding on this years release in terms of the quality and optimisation that is expected by the user... If they can pull that off, they would really pull alot of us and our enthusiasm back into the game. But if we end up with poor quality for us Gen9 users, you can wave as much potentially fantastic stuff Infront of us like new DLC and locos, but we won't be enticed in if we can't actually play it properly. It's pretty pointless if we can't enjoy any of the unannounced things...

I sincerely hope DTG can pull this years release off and wish them the best of success... But, proof will be in the pudding for alot of us. We need to see a game that works fairly well and can be enjoyable, not frustrating.

 

My anticipation is as high as just waiting for reading an article which will probably be released along with Direct, and if the article is interesting enough, or threads related to it appearing in the General Discussion forum will get me interested in it, then watch replay of the Direct with 2-3x speed, maybe occasionally slowing it down to 1x speed in more interesting parts. But I can say the same about all of the DTG streams from the past couple of months -- just watching replays and only if related to them DTG Live articles or user created topics got me interested enough in watching the video.

 

For the survey I wrote something along these lines:

-The foundation is starting to show cracks but DTG is insistent on adding forever more floors. I don't want to abandon the building, I just want it to be stable.
-Train simulators have to be visually smooth. The stuttering breaks immersion in an extra special way because the only motion we have is forward. If train sim developers have to worry extra hard about visual smoothness, then so be it. Do the work because TSW is a $4,000 piece of software at this point.

Lately it feels like my performance situation is tied to each core update. I emphasize the "feels like" because I don't have numbers, and this is a leisure product for which I am the customer. "Feels like" is the only thing that really matters. It feels like core updates break the smooth performance until a new core update comes along that somehow fixes it. Stuttering on acceleration and braking, a slight pause at signal locations, and stuttering when a new sound tries to play... those are the things I notice that make me think TSW itself isn't running well. Then a core update will release and all will be fine for a bit.

There's also a big divide between new content and older content. The GWE remaster was interesting. It is one of the oldest routes that now has new graphically heavy features, fast running, and a stacked timetable... yet it runs smoothly. So something else seems to be at play here. If that's the case DTG won't say and I wouldn't except them to.

I'm still excited for the announcement in a couple weeks, and for TSW7 or whatever it is. I just wish DTG would act like they're selling $4,000 software, not $40 software.

And to continue on the "feels like" theme: Nuremberg-Ingolstadt is outstanding! It certainly FEELS LIKE I'm going really fast. I also really like this theme of having two DLC that complement each other. WCML South and Milton Keynes to Crewe.. or Stamford and Trenton. Both of these combinations FEEL LIKE I'm going really fast and really far.

It truly is a great game, and I'm here for it! It just has to feel like it's happening smoothly, otherwise it really is just chasing numbers to zero.

 

I agree with this 100%. I acknowledge that TSW as a whole has it's many, MANY flaws, but as a simulator it's pretty decent, even if the simulator portion of the series is never going to reach it's fullest potential due to the insistence of releasing a "new" game every year despite the fact that the tools for it are quite literally right in front of them.

I get the hate, but it's really massively overheated (and this is coming from someone who is a US content player that constantly get's deprived of US content within the game series year after year).

 

For me to come and buy the game there is going to have to a promising route and anticipated one such as the ECML extension with a class 91

 

Respectfully disagree on it being overheated, well in the past anyway. Yes it's a good simulator when it works, but overall good will and understanding has been massively stretched with pumped out DLC with bugs, then bugs sat for months on end, endless routes that recycle assets, those assets break one month then are fixed then upon update are seamingly broken again, textures (albeit being worked on) but I think the most frustrating part is the lack of any real meaningful humbleness on communications in the past. As somebody else said recently, the overall feeling is not one of excitement at this year's release. That level of apathy doesn't come about overnight, it's been years in the making.

With a clear vision of fixing things, communicating and never again proposing riduculous ideas such as getting rid of areas of forums etc that support user engagement - DTG can get TSW7 on the right track. A good example of this is finally biting the bullet on Gen8 console support and the good and direct comms as to why, but sadly omitting any real commitments to how this will allow for greater scope of routes or immersive play for Gen9. So again, it's good but it's not enough considering the amount of money being spent on often sub standard products.

Everybody wants TSW to succeed, not just the business, but the user. And by changing the way the business and the consumer engage and support each other, it can. But it needs to continue with its culture change, its comms, and grow its appetite to dive into untapped routes/regions/era/rolling stock. TSC is a good example of user-business support.

 

I have to admit I'm one of those who is also losing interest in TSW at times. Like sometimes I boot the game up, look at the route selection screen, then decide I don't want to play it after all and then go play something else. But then equally I have actually bought a bunch of German content recently, and actually play that more than any UK content
I will admit I am slightly interested in that rumoured Northern route though (even if there's another route I personally would have preferred out of the same main station), but that could all change if/when I comes out and (potentially) nothing has changed

 

At the moment I'm not really interested in anything new. Not GTA6, TSW or Sim Rail.

I got the UK routes I was looking forward to. So there is nothing on my list until Just Trains next release. I used to buy anything by TSG, but seems they are willing to release unfinished work now as well.

I've spent most of my money this year on controllers to make playing what I've got more immersive and on Steam Era content for TSC.

On the whole I still enjoy TSW a lot (Thanks mostly to the OTS timetable mods). But there seems to be a lot of content recently that was just not ready or in one case, shouldn't have been released at all.

Free upgrade for me this time unless the route bundle is something really special. Otherwise I'll wait. Never takes long for it to be in a sale.

 

Obviously we know TSW7 is a given, but I’m really, really enjoying the current iteration.

Riviera Line will have a soft spot for me for personal reasons but it’s nice to still enjoy this route a year later, I’ve done 3 services just today.

While, I’m pretty much convinced the Airedale / Wharfedale lines will be the flagship UK route with TSW7 or a release one or two months after, which will be something different, a nice network route.

While personally, I don’t need another TSW release as currently Riviera Line, East Coastway, WCML Crewe to Milton Keynes and Medway Valley are all in very heavy rotation at the moment, which is keeping me busy enough! Another release with potential new features / performance improvements or at least improvements on the current “random events” or at least weather improvements would be great.

 

I’m 5 years in now, and while I still play the game regularly (most days, in fact) I’m very aware of the lack of follow-up on a lot of the bugs. The black squares in the 805 completely wind me up, and I really loved that DLC when it came out. I feel like a total mug waiting for the patch that probably won’t happen…

That slow realisation that buying something on day one is a mug’s game - unless you’re prepared to wait a year for it to be fixed (if at all) - is really kicking in now. Most likely I’ll just get the free “upgrade” and wait for the sales.

It’s a real shame, I used to look forward to this time of year but the endless parade of bugs and very slow/nonexistent patching has finally ground me down. I was keen on Trent Valley but so far haven’t plucked up the courage to fork out for it. Probably won’t get anything now until Carlisle-Whitehaven comes out, unless the 70 turns out to be a must-have.

 

this year, for TSW7, this could truly make or break it for me. thats me being truthful.

 

Personally, I’m not too excited about what might be coming in Dovetail Direct; I’d prefer more game stability across all platforms...
However, I have to admit that I’ve never played TSW as much as I do now. The wide variety of routes is what keeps drawing me back to play more and more. I have over 1,200 hours of playtime, with the UK routes being the ones I play the most.

I do own SimRail, but I got bored of it quickly due to the lack of variety. I found it repetitive, even though it is much more stable than TSW.

Honestly, I hope third parties manage to release quality content and surprise us this time...

 

Even Preston to Crewe didn’t really light my fire. The various performance issues, even with a new GPU and the screen resolution dialled down. The intolerable sound squelching which ruins what should be the smooth traction audio (the similar electric locos in SimRail have no such issues). The lack of arrival times on the timetable which reading on another thread JT seem unable to sort despite not having the issues on BPO or WCMLS. Then the incorrect brake set up on the freight locos/stock which essentially means you are running unfitted and again no rush to fix. And while Carlisle to Whitehaven continues to pique my interest, by deciding to go cheap on us and not go the slight extra distance to Barrow it’s more likely to be a sale purchase.

 

Yes, even JT are struggling with this core engine now, and the lack of follow-up by DTG - sitting on patches because they’re understaffed or otherwise unable to cope with the volume of work that releasing them would involve - just doesn’t seem to be improving.

Even if 3rd party devs issue patches quickly they take an absolute age to be published, or go so stale that they’re quietly abandoned in the hope that they’ll be forgotten in the hype of whatever new release has taken priority. This erodes trust, and sale purchases become the new normal for those of us who have sussed the game.

I guess the business model is to aim for new players and hope that they’ll keep coming in faster than the old ones wise up. Can’t believe I’m writing this - I’ve always given them the benefit of the doubt, but honestly now I just feel like a mug.

 

I noticed that, too. Especially on my former old PC. Some locos (not all appearently) seem to use a method for the pitch of some sounds that seems to be somehow (indirectly?) tied to stability of framerate. So every spike or sudden drop, even if relatively short, in FPS results in this sound squelching which breaks immersion a lot. And with all the stuttering going on the chance of this happening is not especially low. Mostly so with lower end PCs (while still inside recommended specs that is), more recent hardware seems to be able to avoid that mostly. Also very noticable with the horns of some trains. When you press it for a longer duration they go randomly up and down in pitch with that happening.

 

I noticed this sound behavior on the GWE remaster, it even cuts the sound, like the whole game comes to a halt for a moment. Then I didn't even speak about the terrible sound popping on console, I believe this was first a Xbox only thing, but it's now also noticeable on PS5.

 

Sadly it seems another case where managing the code has got away from them, or maybe UE was never the best choice for a train driving sim where immersion depends on everything - graphics and sound - being super smooth. It will be interesting to see if this is addressed during Direct and one of the questions I will be asking is if they have people (in house or outsourced) who are competent to fix this. If not, then I really see no point in dropping £60+ on a content pack, no matter how good it turns out, just to get this broken experience.

 

OldVern
Unfortunately, this Dovetail Direct isn’t a live stream, but just a pre-recorded broadcast featuring new announcements and content.

I wish it were live, so that DTG would have to answer users’ questions.

 

“Answer/avoid” delete as appropriate

 

Before TSW6 I had only skipped 3 DLCs in the whole of the franchise.
Since TSW6 I've only bought 1 DLC apart from the launch bundle.

I'm hoping for a good Direct.

 

I’m hoping they might have a Q&A beforehand though suspect not as that would destroy their carefully choreographed presentation.

 

I have never watched one of these because if I cringe too much I get cramp, but they should put the person who can carefully choreograph something in charge of the game.

 

I think they do a Q&A livestream a few days after the direct if memory serves me right. Or i could be making this up.

 

If it was a Q&A they'd only cherry pick questions anyway

 

Well, what do we have here...

this station here belongs on the Port Jefferson Branch for LIRR...

Which is a diesel only branch that uses DE30AC AND DM30AC locos...

42 miles, so it is an appropriate length.

Could this be the American TSW7 core route unmasked?

 

If it is, the looming sense of disappointment is creeping in. They’ve milked the North East corridor enough to allow it to take a gap year.

 

Knowing DTG, this seems all too predictable, and something that they would exactly do.

 

Plus LIRR means mandatory safety systems. Strike one of the three routes if true. You can do better than that DTG.

 

Can they though?

 

Personally went into this stupidly with massive hopes this year. UK wise wanted South West Mainline and US somewhere completely different. But, if so I agree; thumbs down and suspect the UK route will be something that keeps my wallet intact too.

 

In terms of the choice... There are so many other places they could have gone, try harder to get a licence and access for research. I mean at this point it is just pure speculation but they must know that, 1. The mandatory LIRR safety systems are a PITA for many players way too intensive as you really can't enjoy the drive plus, 2. We already have a significant portion of the system in the game. Anyhow, 'nuff said as it could just be some cunning misdirection to throw us off the scent1