Tadami Line Screenshots

I think part of the problem from the start is that Union Workshop didn't understand the scope of developing a route for TSW. They originally thought they could literally just copy it from their TSC version of Tadami line. I believe Matt even said on stream that Union Workshop initially tried to copy over assets from TSC to use in TSW but ended up realizing that wasn't a good idea. But the fact that UW even thought they could copy everything over is a bad sign. They might have remade the assets for unreal engine, but the asset quality reeks of train sim classic. Low res station signs, low detail buildings, sparse scenery as soon as you look outside the stations, Kiha 40 sound quality. I could go on. Overall I’d describe Tadami line for TSW as just a copy of the TSC version just in unreal engine with better lighting. Everything else like scenery density, assets, and sounds is identical.

 

Oh but people were overreacting. All that negativity was not justified. The criticisms were overblown. /s

 

Isn't this the same as you saying a team of people should work for free for your benefit Vern?
I keep seeing all these comments about QA etc and whilst I agree with some of these Vern I do wonder at what point and how many QA and delayed DLC people will be happy.

Of course it will be "should be more QA" , "should be delayed", "shouldn't be released" , "oh you're a fan boy" etc but I think if people reflected whilst they want (and i do) awesome DLC there comes a point where accountants, QA, beta, whoever who are all balancing more than one project have to put a name in the sand and say go.

When i read your posts in the Beta testers wanted post i thought "intelligent guy" , he clearly knows how it works and then I see these at times, yet you know how it works...how time works, how beta works, how QA works etc.

I agree more time would always be nice but then people shouldn't be working for free, and, theres a steam refund window right

 

There isn't a console window though - once you click 'buy now' it's yours to keep....and this is exactly why quality control shouldn't allow anything out of the door that may have an adverse effect on those locked into a draconian 'no refunds' ecosystem...

 

Do hope this route don't kill of train sim it dying right now we need to save it

 

I think the challenge is dev teams will need to get something out the door at some point and the consoles choose how they refund, and we choose what we buy and what on

 

Agree, and considering the tadami is an attempt at copying over a TSC route with poor quality graphics, this should not be charged at the same rate as a TSW developed route in my opinion. If it was cheaper I'd buy it, and I know for a fact I won't get a refund if I don't like it

 

No need to get personal. Point is, doesn’t matter how much work has been poured into it, if it’s not good enough, then it’s not good enough and DTG shouldn’t be adding to the flywheel at the regular price. Okay free is maybe a bit much to expect but it certainly should not be on the same stage as Medway Valley, or the AABS and JT routes.

There is no guarantee that having come this far with so much wrong, Union Workshop will do anything about it - if they even regard the deficiencies as such. And I’m sure in the past DTG have declined to adopt or take over 3P DLC to fix and patch it.

 

Nothing personal Vern. You speak your mind and should continue to. Just think there's two side to a coin and there's always a lot of blame thrown around. I agree there are better DLC. Far better in fact.
I don't agree that people should give their work away for free and would hope no one ever asks/asked you to either. I also have a differing opinion that it's all on DTG, QA, beta etc. I am confident the devs want it right, and the accountants want time paid for. I suspect there's our gap in quality at times. Just pointing it out so we, and others reflect on that point.

 

Genuine question - to you consider TSW1/TSW2 era TSW assets "TSC quality"? Is, say, Rapid Transit, a TSC quality level route or TSW quality level route?

 

I had a hunch from all the very obvious scenery errors that can be spotted from the cab on a lot of routes that no one at DTG even does a single drive of a route before release, but that’s just taking the p at that point.

 

Kind of somewhere in between, on a lot of routes I have seen old Kuju Rail Simulator assets from 2008, but not everything is a straight rip from an ancient game, and it’s pretty noticeable.

 

Me looking at all the beautiful locos Caledonia Works makes for TSC and wondering if TSW is even the one that should be considered the higher quality of the two.

 

As far as I know, it isn’t actually possible to export or extract 3D models from TSC.
Either you created the model for TSC in the first place and still have the original 3D model on your hard drive.

If I’m wrong about that, I’d be very keen to know how it can be done.

 

Well we're talking about the use of former TSC assets by DTG and Union Workshop, who would have the originals unless they deleted them...

 

At this point I've been finding TSC's positives have been outweighing TSW's, especially as a console user

 

I don’t doubt that, I’m assuming that DTG had all the original asset model files and then imported them into TSW, and when you know what to look for they are so noticeable for their lower quality than new assets. I may take some screenshots of what I mean later if I can be bothered.

 

I know full well how 3D models work, and I also know that if you still have the old TSC 3D models, you can incorporate them into TSW as well. I used to make lots and lots of mods for Omsi and Omsi 2 myself.

I phrased my question that way because KitsuneKiera mentioned what Rip had written. To me, that means ‘ripping’ 3D models out of a game.

 

I had a very quick peak and couldn't find any ripped TSC assets that would matter (close to track). I doubt they ripped or used those old assets. And, yes... you can rip about every model in any game.

 

I enjoy TSC on my laptop. So much more variety of routes. Yes, the menus can be a little impenetrable, but there's so much more on there, and once you're going it's still a great experience.

 

I suppose that was my bad, I kinda meant it more as reusing old assets that were originally designed to be used in a different game.

 

Yes, you can extract 3D models from lots of games, but as far as TSC is concerned, I’ve never come across anything suggesting that you could take, say, locomotive X from TSC and convert it into a 3D format that I could open in Blender.

If you know more about this than I do, please feel free to send me a private messa

 

There was an unofficial plug in for 3D Canvas (now 3D Crafter) which allowed you to convert MSTS models back into the raw 3D format, from where they could then be re-exported into Railworks/TSC format. I only ever used it to convert stuff I'd made myself in Trainsim Modeller for my MSTS routes, like some of the Blackpool buildings, for my own TSC routes. I imagine any 3D modeller worth their salt probably has something similar up their sleeve and in the case of Union Workshop they probably still have the source files in whatever 3D programme they used, which simply require doctoring with any specific UE requirements and exporting out again.

 

So, am i the only one who actually enjoys this route? I find it relaxing and the speed does not feel as slow as initially thought.

 

You can still enjoy something despite it being not very good

 

I wouldn't take the views on here of being representative of everyone or even most people. Most enjoying it will be silent. If the views on here were indicative of most people DTG would hardly sell anything.

Personally I won't get it till suspension is implemented but it certainly looks like it has some interesting parts and some nice scenery.

 

On a route offering so few services, the station/town design really ought to be excellent so that you can pass the time discovering details. Yet, there is simply hardly anything to see. Aside from a few nice new objects, most stations are completely lifeless—it feels like a ghost town. Furthermore, the scenery design is demonstrably poor, making it no fun to simply spend time there (in contrast, for example, to the Niddertalbahn, which has been on the market for years but boasts a far superior atmosphere).

Just take a look at the screenshots shown here—they really put you right off.

And I think the general consensus reflects that, too; Steam reviews, for instance, are mostly negative, and the route is hardly ever discussed here anymore. All in all, that doesn't speak well for the DLC.

That said, I don't begrudge anyone their fun if you happen to like the route.

And I cannot subscribe to the statement that 'most people who like it stay silent.' Because when a DLC is truly good, you see a lot of positive posts here—or just a lot of posts in general. Including from me.

For me, Tadami is the biggest disappointment for TSW in a long time.

 

Normally I'd agree with you, but I think on this occasion the views are probably representative of most people because - ignoring all those external reviews - all you really have to do is look at the number of posts in the feedback thread to see how unpopular Tadami appears to be.
Granted, a lot of those screenshots are cherry picked to give an overall bad impression of the route but the fact remains that Tadami has been an extremely long term project with ample time to iron out any quirks, yet every single one of those screenshots have been taken in plain sight of the train + rails! Sorry, but this isn't the consumer being picky or bitter....this is self-inflicted negativity and I genuinely hope that harsh lessons have been learned as to exactly what Dovetail Games can and cannot get away with when it comes to presenting £30 and upwards products to the consumer.

By all means enjoy the route (I won't ever begrudge anyone that right) but just remember, you should have been enjoying something far, far better than what you actually got.

 

I haven't bought the route so won't be enjoying it.

This route clearly has been a disappointment to many, including me, all I'm saying is that we shouldn't assume that the views on here aren't necessarily representative. Maybe they are on this occasion. Only DTG will really know how well it's done. If there is 30% off in the next steam sale then they would suggest it's not been popular.

I've never actually left a Steam review even for something I've loved, maybe I should do.

 

Apologies, I was generalising with the last bit....I was too lazy to stick in another quote

Just for the record I tend not to pay too much attention to TSW Steam reviews anyway because some have a habit of giving a thumbs down just because it sits comfortably within the somewhat toxic Dovetail Games narrative and they know they'll get a lot of likes for doing so...and others rather inexplicably focus on one thing only to justify their dislike!
I'm not saying everyone does that and I'm certainly not saying that (in some instances) negative reviews aren't warranted, but nonetheless, TSW does seem to have more than it's fair share of, erm, unusual reviews!

 

Yes I agree with that, I've seen strange reviews in other places.

Someone gave Worcester Cathedral a negative review on TripAdvisor as it didn't have a helter-skelter! I don't think it was even satire.

Certainly if Tadami gets a lot more negative reviews on steam than other DLC then I guess that's a sign.

I hope they do improve it I would like to see more routes like this.

 

Thanks - made my day!

 

They must have confused it with Norwich!

 

I did notice the lack of activity in the formal feedback thread. Normally those are buzzing the first two or three weeks. Would be funny if it didn’t even scrape into four figures for units sold. I think if the train had been okay, then the imperfections with the route might have been forgiven. But I really didn’t fancy driving a white and green brick with no branding, no suspension and sounds that came from a go kart through Transport Fever style scenery.

And at the risk of repeating myself, they should have chosen something in a much wider known location such as Tokyo, Osaka (Black Rain!) or Nagoya. A shorter route with two new trains would have stood more chance of drawing customers in who might be on the fence about the Japanese scene.

And it has gone strangely quiet as regards any fixes or upgrades. Even if UW don’t wish to participate directly on the forum then DTG should be posting what is likely to get patched or improved. I know from the TSC version that many things needed fixing but they just never bothered.

Frankly, DTG couldn’t give it away to most of us.

 

Lol never knew that existed!

Maybe they had been to Norwich before and assumed all cathedrals had one!