Msb - Hill Climb/banking

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Paulmh5, Oct 8, 2020.

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  1. Paulmh5

    Paulmh5 New Member

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    Hi
    I've seen a few posts about this for both TSW2020 and TSW2. I guess my basic question is, does it work?

    In both games I've tried a few timetabled services trying to climb the hill with the banking loco attached with no joy. It seems to take almost 100% throttle to get moving, I reach about 20kph then "gravity" takes over and I end up slowing to a stop.
    I tried turning the banking comm off and on (works for PCs) and charging the brakes to full and releasing (I saw that on here) but no luck. Have Dovetail just broken then and its not possible or am I doing something wrong?

    Sorry if this is just a repost.
     
  2. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Don't forget about Banking Comm to ON.
    In TSW2? Possible, but without rain :D
    New adhesive physics "killed" some loco's power in the name of realism, hyhyhy
     
  3. GuitarMan

    GuitarMan Well-Known Member

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    I’ve managed every banking run I’ve tried so far. Just started one and forgot to press banking comm on. Stalled on a 2.1% gradient and got going again, hit 40km/h before messing up and not acknowledging Sifa.

    it does take more thought than TSW2020 and sand becomes necessary at times. But so far haven’t found one that I can’t complete.
     
  4. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Try this one - DB83122 - in summer rain :) GL!
     
  5. GuitarMan

    GuitarMan Well-Known Member

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    I’ll have a go in a minute :)

    edit: this one is definitely a challenge.definitely underpowered and can’t get to the top.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
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  6. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Officially undoable :D
    Preserved locos + adhesive physics + old consist and HPPT config + rain = yeah :D
     
  7. GuitarMan

    GuitarMan Well-Known Member

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    DB83158 in Journey mode is a challenge too... I’m wondering if they do need upgrading to be double headed plus a banker like the fuel exchange level
     
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  8. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 8, 2020
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  9. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    Dont use AFB on banking services. Just saying.
     
  10. Paulmh5

    Paulmh5 New Member

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    Fairly sure the banking comm is turned on. Is there any way to check the rear loco is actually doing anything?
     
  11. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

  12. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    This probably doesn't matter in terms of feasibility?
     
  13. GuitarMan

    GuitarMan Well-Known Member

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    This makes more difference than I realised. Got 83158 working now in journey mode I think. Will try the other one in the morning -

    edit still stalled in 83158
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
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  14. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    ANother tip besides not using AFB is when the service started, wait for all the brakes to be released. 1-2 minutes should be enough and then go on full throttle. And AFB makes a difference since the closer it comes to the aim speed, the less power is applied and without AFB full power is applied at all times.
     
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  15. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    During my wet approach, for check :) THX for advice, but I think "rain" makes that difference. Impossible to go 'full throttle'.
     
  16. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, on Rain you have to go for 70-80% throttle and use the sand button.
     
  17. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Impossible. Just try. DB83122
     
  18. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the problem is that Sand actually does nothing. Without proper working Sand its impossible, thats right.
     
  19. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Sand works, but this changes nothing in this case, still.
    I don't go into how well it works, but it works.
     
  20. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I've been questioning this myself...Is there really variable adhesion applied on MSB? I don't think its been mentioned anywhere so far.
    From what I can tell, wheelslip occurs everytime I push the throttle past 80 or 90% at low speeds, and that happens consistently until you reach higher speeds.

    Wheelslip has always been a thing in TSW from the beginning, but prior to TSW2 this was usually caused because the loco couldn't handle the heavy loads. In TSW2, I believe they mentioned that weights have been adjusted and generally things feel a lot heavier.
    I think that's whats going on here. Rain or shine, the rail condition wouldn't matter, there's still wheelslip pulling heavy weights up a hill.
    The solution would be to attach another loco somewhere along the consist to help with the ascent. I haven't tried the banking services yet to tell if this is indeed the case.

    Btw, sanding does technically work, but as they've described its not a "get me out of this situation" button. It only adds like 10% to your tractive effort ;)
     
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  21. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    True, Preserved = ain't no adhesion, in theory (Matt said something about partial implementation?), so maybe it is like You suggest :) Sounds logical to me!
     
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  22. L89

    L89 Well-Known Member

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    Now you can reverse back a bit in your starting block and gain some extra speed from a lower gradient.

    I didn't have the patience for this because I feel like this was not designed for TSW2 adhesion. So in order to finish chapter 4 in journey mode (using continue journey so requires doing in order), I uncoupled the banker, then uncoupled mine from everything. Was able to finish it cheaply in order to move on to the next chapter. I may give it another shot when it comes up again in chapter 5.

    I had no issues with banking in TSW2020.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2020
  23. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    Or, like me, on start move the AFB lever to e.g. 80 or 100km/h, and like the train reach about 4 or 5 km/h, decrease the AFB lever to max permitted speed (on start + PZB) under the 45km/h (40). With snow and rain use throttle to 7-8, where 10 is the max.
     
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  24. GuitarMan

    GuitarMan Well-Known Member

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    So got this one done today, crawled up at about 40km/h can’t get sifa kicking in or you won’t get up, but is doable if you focus
     
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  25. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    33 cars? Impossible/bugged!
     
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  26. L89

    L89 Well-Known Member

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    Just tried 83158 in journey mode; got stuck around 3.7km from the destination on a 2.1% gradient. I was able to get going again by putting the brakes to full application and direct brake on. Release train brake back to running and put throttle to 100%. Releasing the direct brake gradually got me moving forwards again from the 2.1% gradient.

    Did it again in timetable mode in clear conditions with no problems. Journey mode 83158 must have wetness turned up because it was much harder. :o
     
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  27. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    Update: Broken since TSW(1) also without new adhesion physics.

    Throttle to 80-85% (8) to simulate the TSW2 max throttle without lose grip. Same weather preset (summer rainy), same result!
    Train Sim World® 2020-10-10 00-53-48.png
    TSW (1) Banking service (timetable) of 10:29 am.

    TSW 2 Banking service (timetable) of 10:29 am. But with the standard weather preset (spring clean).
    Train Sim World 2® 2020-10-10 07-23-57.png
    With throttle to 80-85% (8) how max power without lose grip (in case of rain/snow) the train get stuck the same.

    With or without the new adhesion physics we need more power (throttle to 10) to pass across the 2.1% gradient with success. (or we need to reduce the cars number)
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
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  28. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty certain its not adhesion physics (because they're not applied on the locos used in MSB), its because the weights have changed and generally the consists are a bit heavier. And as a result the locos have become 'underpowered' and unsuitable to haul these heavy consists. Either they need to rework how much traction the locos provide, or they have to add more locos to the consist.
    This is something unique to TSW2 and not TSW2020, as the weight changes were recent. Its why you get wheelslip regardless of rail condition. Either way, it shouldn't really be like this :P
     
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  29. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    I still don't know if it's the fault of the (too heavy) load or the problem with the Preserved locomotives. I remember once complaining about TSW1 in a similar vein and Matt wrote: to overcharge brakes. Then I felt like a student :D But now they have changed something. I'm not saying the worst, but maybe too many of these wagons, however? My last climb with the 155 was barely successful and I was pulling just over 1000 tons. I know, I understand, not only about HP/T but something is wrong (BR 146 Vmax eg and IRL Vmax is about HP). Maybe it's not adhesive physics - maybe - but I'm not sure. Again to 'quote' Matt (stream): partially implemented (in preserved). What does it mean? Or I misunderstood something. The punch line: some services cannot be completed :( BR!
     
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  30. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Preserved collection does not have WSP.
     
  31. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    Matt said that Preserveed Collection has Adhesion, but not to a full accessible point, so its just basic. But the fact that they changed weight to be actually a thing in the game, banking has become a challenge. Now, in real life you dont have a 185 as a banking loco, it has been a 151. So I guess in the end DTG needs to rework these services either with double traction or less cars.
     
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  32. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    The trains in MSB have always had weight.
     
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  33. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    I dont deny that but they had not the proper incluence on the physics. Now the weight is actually influencing the behavior of the train properly.
     
  34. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    BR 146 too? 14 HP/T ratio?
    PS In my opinion something went wrong during the preservation of the old locomotives.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 10, 2020
  35. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I guess DTG just forgot torework the loco*s power to the new weight stuff.
     
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  36. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    The weight did not change on the MSB trains.
     
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  37. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    DB BR 146 max speed on TSW1 (MSB) with 0.7% of upgrade gradient (just a test drive)
    Train Sim World® 2020-10-10 01-46-55.png

    The same (6 cars) trainset on TSW2 to reach the 150 km/h need of a downgrade gradient.

    Same trainset/service (and same gradient) on TSW2, we lost 19-20km/h.
    Train Sim World 2® 2020-10-10 18-43-28.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
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  38. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    The claim that the weights didnt change is just not correct because there IS a difference between TSW 2020 and TSW 2. The devs also told in one of the streams that they adjusted the weights. So dont spread false claims.
     
  39. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Well. We will have to uncouple a few wagons along the way, sometimes :D
    Actually, I don't remember - will that break the ride?
     
  40. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    That was Sandpatch. Those didn't have loaded weights in TSW 2020.
     
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  41. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    Doesnt change the fact the the influence of weight changed in TSW 2. Therefore weight is different in TSW 2, not only for SPG, for Preserved Collection which has adhesion too.
     
  42. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Something's changed that prevents it from working correctly. I don’t care what it is exactly as long as they get in there and fix it so the trains are drivable. I’ll let the devs work out whether it’s the adhesion, the weights, the tractive power or a horrible combination of all three and wait (hopefully not for long) for the fixes. Until then, back to TSW2020 for MSB and no playing the extra services on SKA.
     
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  43. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    I really struggled getting up the Spessart Ramp doing the last journey in the Banking Chapter on MSB. I failed to get up the first time and started rolling back to Laufach at quite a speed.

    The second time, most of my time was looking at the sanding lever and not out of the window. Sanding the rails, I managed to hold enough speed to make it to the top but it wasn’t an enjoyable experience.

    This might simulate real life, but the locomotives definitely feel underpowered.
     

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