Gotthardbahn Alpine Classic: Erstfeld - Bellinzona

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by martin-4518, Mar 20, 2021.

?
  1. yes

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  2. no

    1 vote(s)
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  3. maybe

    3 vote(s)
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  1. martin-4518

    martin-4518 Well-Known Member

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    Arrived in Switzerland via the Arosa line and therefore another route comes from Switzerland.
    The Gotthard Railway is the second highest standard gauge railway in Switzerland. It was built between 1872 and 1882 and crosses the Alps with the Gotthard tunnel at 1,151 meters above sea level. At the time, the 15 km long Gotthard tunnel was the longest in the world.
    the 110 km long Gotthard route between Erstfeld, on the northern side of the Alps, at an altitude of 472 meters, to Bellinzona in the south, near the Italian border, at an altitude of 241 meters, modeled as it was before the completion of the new Gotthard -Base tunnel ran. Due to the extreme height differences, long ramps are used for the access roads on each side of the tunnel, as well as several spirals inside the mountain.
    Operation of the Gotthard Railway is challenging and varied and includes both regional and interregional passenger transport as well as important freight transports to supply industries. Many are led by SBB's fleet of sleek Re 460 locomotives. Control car variants of the EWIV passenger car can also top the line, with a 460 pushing the train.
    [​IMG]
    EWIV passenger car
    [​IMG]
    SBB Re460
    [​IMG]


    Extreme differences in height, which provide unique panoramas at every curve, have made the classic Gotthard Railway world famous.
     
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  2. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Excellent idea and you just brought in another classic TS21 route to Train Sim World so that console players can see what they are actually missing. unlike the PC players which can have train Sim world and train Sim 21. How about making this set to present day to which you have the option of using the new Gotthard Base Tunnel and the old route. If you are playing time table mode the trains that require the base tunnel are rolling highways that is basically SBB-CFF-FFS RE 474 & 484s pulling a passenger coaches and flatbed wagons with Lorries General Freight & high-speed tilting trains like the ETR610. Old route RE460 with panoramic coaches and Rabe 524s Airolo-Bellinzona.
     
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  3. kennyjamesscott

    kennyjamesscott Well-Known Member

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    Would be great to see it happen
     
  4. jeanmarc094

    jeanmarc094 Well-Known Member

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    i can rivet making it
     
  5. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    I agree since Rivet Game made The Arosa Line RhB. If they want to make this one you need to have to routes one is the base tunnel provided the timetable mood requires you to operate heavy goods trains. That includes rolling highway basically lorries carried on trains with a passenger coach behind the locomotive Rabe 503 in Italy ETR610 Rabe 501 low floor high-speed train. The old route via Göschenen uses special panoramic coaches and regional trains. Rivet Games made a Gotthard Bahn Manual for Sister Game Train Sim 21. For the TSW2 manual console, controls need to be added like the B button Xbox One SeriesX/S for Integra Signum while PS4/PS5 uses the Circle Button to acknowledge Integra Signum.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
  6. fabdiva

    fabdiva Well-Known Member

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    The base tunnel wouldn't be interesting - 20-30 mins end to end all in a level single track tunnel? The scenery and challenge of the gradients are much better from a player perspective on the old line.
     
  7. fabdiva

    fabdiva Well-Known Member

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    I'd certainly prefer 90 mins of this
    express-train-at-the-old-gotthard-stock-photograph_csp40991590[1].jpg

    To 20 mins of this
    black.png
     
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  8. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    I agree and for the old route via Göschenen the banking locomotive gets attached at Erstfeld towards Milan via Chiasso Border Station but detached at Bellinzona. Northbound to Zurich banking locomotive gets attached at Bellinzona and detached at Erstfeld. If they wanted a journey mode Banking Driver duty via the old route. This way Gotthard Bahn mirrors the Pre 2017 Main Spessart Bahn Aschaffenburg-Gemünden Banking locomotive operation. If they decided to have the old route via Göschenen and the new base tunnel what will happen is this heavy goods trains go to the base tunnel while a double formation locomotive Re420 & Re620 or Re484 & Re474 goes via Göschenen. ETR610 Rabe 503 Stadler 501 & Rabe 500 go via Base Tunnel in normal timetable mode. Although they can also go via Göschenen if there's a scenario that had the base tunnel closed for work. One of the Achievements might be Alpine Rocket reach 250km/h 155 mph on ETR610
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
  9. martin-4518

    martin-4518 Well-Known Member

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    I have a couple of screenshots from the track in TS 2021
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    The journey in the 15 km long Gotthard tunnel between Göschenen and Airolo, if you drive the entire route, takes about 8 minutes
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2021
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  10. martin-4518

    martin-4518 Well-Known Member

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    a few screenshots from TS 2021 from Rabe524 from SBB for reginaol traffic
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    the orginale Rabe524
    on Largo Maggiore
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
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  11. Agent Qracle RUS

    Agent Qracle RUS Well-Known Member

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    110 km... Total miss (nobody will build that huge route for TSW)
     
  12. martin-4518

    martin-4518 Well-Known Member

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    Then on from Bellinzona via Cadenazzo-Luino is a single-track railway line, which is operated by the Swiss Federal Railways (SBB) and the Italian Rete Ferroviaria Italiana (RFI). It connects Bellinzona in Switzerland with Luino in Italy and is one of the three southern feeder lines of the Gotthard Railway built by the Gotthard Railway Company. The line branches off at Cadenazzo from the Giubiasco – Locarno railway line and is now mainly used for freight traffic. In passenger transport, it is served by the TILO trains of the S 30 to largo Maggiore.[​IMG]
    Route
    The route begins at the Cadenazzo train station and runs parallel to the route to Locarno as far as the Cadenazzo Ovest service station. The two tracks were originally operated as two single-track sections, but today they form an approximately one-kilometer-long double-track section in which two lane changes have been installed. While the route to Locarno turns west into the Magadino plain, the route to Luino continues to follow the foothills of Monte Ceneri. From the Magadino-Vira station, the route leads along a winding route along the shores of Lake Maggiore. At Ranzo-Sant’Abbondio, the border between Switzerland and Italy is crossed. Ten tunnels are driven through on the almost 15-kilometer-long section, the longest is 686 meters long and is just before Luino.

    The maximum gradient of the route is 8 ‰ in the north and 10 ‰ in the south.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
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  13. martin-4518

    martin-4518 Well-Known Member

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    in TS2021 the track was built by Rivet Games
     
  14. martin-4518

    martin-4518 Well-Known Member

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    The railway line to Locarno was traditionally also served by express trains until the Gotthard Base Tunnel went into operation (December 2016). While the fast InterCity connections (IC / ICN) and the cross-border EuroCity trains (EC / CIS) - the so-called “high quality” passenger transport - are reserved for the main route to Lugano – Chiasso, InterRegio (IR) ran every hour to Locarno with a stopover Cadenazzo. These were the two bi-hourly IR train lines Basel – Lucerne – Locarno and Zurich – Zug – Locarno, which overlap on the Gotthard Railway Section Arth-Goldau – Bellinzona – Locarno and run every hour there. Today, two InterCity trains per day run from Basel via Lucerne and the Gotthard Base Tunnel to Locarno. These trains run between Bellinzona and Locarno without stopping.

    Regional traffic has been marketed as part of the Ticino S-Bahn since 2004 and run by the SBB subsidiary TILO. The half-hourly S20 (Bellinzona – Locarno) serves the entire route with all regular stops. The cross-border S30 (Cadenazzo – Luino) runs the Giubiasco – Cadenazzo section with certain train extensions from / to Bellinzona.[​IMG]
     
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  15. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of the S30 it's actually operated as Bellinzona Malpensa Airport pre COVID-19 pandemic. If the 2017 Gotthard Bahn is made ETR610 can just cruise at 250 kmh via Base Tunnel
     
  16. martin-4518

    martin-4518 Well-Known Member

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    SBB Gotthard Railway: Lucerne - Erstfeld (Northern Valley Railway)
    From Lucerne, the route leads along the southern shore of Lake Zug and below the Rigi to the Arth-Goldau train station (510m above sea level). At Arth-Goldau station, the Gotthard Railway joins the line coming from Zurich - Zug. The main line of the Southeast Railway branches off in Arth-Goldau, which leads via Sattel and Biberbrugg to Rapperswil on Lake Zurich and with a branch to Einsiedeln. In Arth-Goldau Bf, the Gotthard Railway passes under the former high station of the Arth-Rigi Railway. From Arth-Goldau the railway line leads past the east side of the Lauerzersee to the canton capital Schwyz (455m above sea level). In Brunnen, it reaches Lake Uri, the southern part of Lake Lucerne. To the south of the Brunnen station, the tracks of the 12-kilometer separate route share and lead through various tunnels and galleries on the Axenberg and over the Gruonbach. At Sisikon, the route crosses the border between the cantons of Schwyz and Uri. At Flüelen it reaches the southern tip of Lake Lucerne and the Reuss plain. The railway line leads via Altdorf - past the north portal of the Gotthard base tunnel - to Erstfeld (472 m above sea level), where the Gotthard north ramp begins to Göschenen.[​IMG]
    In the Katonen Schwyz, Uri and Nidwalden they speak the 4th language in Switzerland. Many think that people only speak 3 languages in Switzerland. It's not like this. it is known that in some Katonen you speak German, French and Italian. In the original cartons Schwyz, Uri and Nidwalden, one still speaks Rätoromanisch.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2021
  17. martin-4518

    martin-4518 Well-Known Member

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    My suggestion would be to split the Gotthard Railway into several parts.
    the 1st section from Lucerne to Göschenen through the German-speaking area.
    The other section in Katon Tessin (Italian Switzerland) in 2 sections. From Airolo to Bellinzona and the other section from Bellinzona to Como.
    This would have covered the entire Gotthard Railway.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2021
  18. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    By the way you have to consider this Ceneri Base Tunnel is opened since December 2020. You have an option keep the route pre 2020 Gotthard Bahn South Bellinzona Chiasso or 2020 with Ceneri Base Tunnel.
     
  19. Commiee

    Commiee Well-Known Member

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    I just discovered this DLC in TS Classic store and am watching a YT video for it. Route looks beautiful, Re460 looks cool (as does the DLC RABe 523), and the sounds are awesome. Would be great if we had this in TSW2.
     
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  20. Commiee

    Commiee Well-Known Member

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    I have been adding cab ride videos or trainspotting videos to several suggestions I have supported on the forum, and wanted to do that here as well, to make this proposal more "full". Here is a long video placing the trains with the backdrop of some awesome sights of the route:

     
  21. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    This route can connect to Luzern Sursee with Gotthardbahn Nord Luzern to Erstfeld/Göschenen for Rabe 503 500 RE474 ES64F4 RE484 Traxx Heavy freight which must run the base tunnel. Göschenen Light freight RE474 RE484since they don't need a second helper engine for Erstfeld to Göschenen. In return RE474 RE484 Rabe 503 500 give services to Luzern Sursee.
     
  22. Commiee

    Commiee Well-Known Member

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    My dear driverwoods, I have to admit I always get confused by your posts :D so I have to double check here - does that mean the video I added is not representative of the Erstfeld-Bellinzona route this suggestion is for? Or are those just additional directions? I am not knowledgeable of the route, so if it isn't representative of what the proposal is for, I'll remove it.
     
  23. fabdiva

    fabdiva Well-Known Member

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    Pre Base Tunnel everything went over the old route - After the base tunnel opened all long distance services and most freight now takes the base tunnel - there is an hourly SOB FLIRT regional service over the old route plus some freight.

    I think that's what they meant when stripping out the Train models and should add that it's quite a way from Erstfeld to Luzern to connect with Rivet's line, and the majority of traffic Heads North after Arth-Goldau station and avoids the entire Luzern area
     
  24. Commiee

    Commiee Well-Known Member

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    The video is from 2013 - not sure how much has changed since then. I guess the general surroundings and some of the rolling stock is still relevant.
     
  25. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Correct that's what I meant in my comment. The Rabe 503 is the train that Runs on Luzern Sursee and this route. Also HMA for Zurich Hb
     
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  26. fabdiva

    fabdiva Well-Known Member

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    The Current trains on the Gotthard mountain route are these very nice high spec FLIRTS

    [​IMG]
     
  27. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    Would be better if there was something equipped to hide the couplers
     
  28. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    You mean the ones on the DB BR612
     
  29. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    Nah something simillar to the x2000,Acela and the Ice's couplers
     
  30. Swisstrains

    Swisstrains Well-Known Member

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    the base tunnel opened in 2016. Until 2020 I think, SBB had hourly IR services from Zurich to Bellinzona, since then they were replaced by the SOB flirts. You also habe got something like S-Bahn services with the flirt from Luzern-Sursee. After the base tunnel opened, there is only about one freight train per week on the old route, the rest is going through the 57,7 Km long tunnel. I would prefer the route set before 2016, it would be way cooler for sure ;D
     
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  31. Commiee

    Commiee Well-Known Member

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    I was just watching a newer video of the route:

     
  32. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    You mean Luzern Sursee laying the Rabe 523 here while Gotthard Bahn gives RE484 RE474 Rabe 500 & 503 to Luzern Sursee. Remember RE484 474 operate the Basel Muttenz Olten Sursee Luzern Erstfeld Bodio Chiasso freight via Base Tunnel. For the Old route replace Erstfeld with Gosnochen and Ariolo then Bodio Chiasso where both routes merge
     
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  33. jedi247

    jedi247 Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to see the Gotthardbahn include a classic Swiss Crocodile electric. Vintage routes need to be made for TSW2.
     
  34. BN3140

    BN3140 Member

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    The Gotthard Railway would be an excellent addition.

     
  35. Woroszyl The NS 2000

    Woroszyl The NS 2000 Well-Known Member

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    Only 1 stock can be layered so far: the RABe 523 from Luzern to Sursee. Well it even has the "Erstfeld" destination in it!
     
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  36. Swisstrains

    Swisstrains Well-Known Member

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    well,
    the Br185.5 and Br187 can be layered and the Br182 could be layered, although the second one would be missing the correct pantograph
     
  37. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    Would they not need the ETCS systems implemented first?
     
  38. Swisstrains

    Swisstrains Well-Known Member

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    Depends. Definitely they would need the Swiss safety systems ZUB and ETCS, second one only for Gotthard base tunnel. Fun fact: the Flirt would also need the ZUB, since it wasn’t implemented by Rivet
     
  39. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    How about the Rabe 524 used on the Ticino side of the Gotthard Bahn is it also equipped with ZUB 121/122 like the Rabe 523 S-Bahn Luzern or not? For Rabe 524 it's equipped with SCMT RS4 South of Chiasso north of Chiasso then it needs ZUB Integra Signum & ETCS like the Flirt from Luzern Sursee a recently built version. For the Rabe 524, the pantograph needs to be a copper strip 1.45m to permit running on SBB 15kv 16.7hz & RFI 3kv DC system. For the 182 the only version to have the correct swiss pantograph are it's OBB Baureihe 1116 configuration 201-223 list is from the German Wiki. here's OBB 1116 215 with the Swiss pantograph and it's located on Cab 2.
    [​IMG]
    This version of OBB 1116 can then be made into MRCE & Dispolok 182 to allow them to run into Switzerland with the smaller Swiss Pantograph the 1.45m
     
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