Adam, Oakville.

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by davidh0501, May 6, 2021.

  1. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Now your crew are looking at OSD, would you please consider adding a few passengers to the stations.
    Some of us like to run passenger services and the deserted stations are an eyesore.
    Not asking for many, just a few to stop them looking like they’ve never been used.
    Thank you.
     
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  2. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Funnily enough, passengers do spawn on OSD, at the passenger stations, at certain specific times. Almost as if there is a passenger service layer on the route that is.... um..... almost fully operational (but without the actual trains). This is the case on PS4, but if you want even more passengers then you can tweak your .INI settings on PC. I actually quite like the stations - they look quite good in the late evening.
     
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  3. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to tag you, TrainSim-Adam ..... but since this thread has already done that it in the title, and because I have some specific questions directly to you regarding Oakville "preservation", I thought that this would be justified.

    Adam - This week you announced that the SFJ and OSD routes are due to get the "preservation" treatment next. I see that a number of people have already started giving feedback on the San Fran route, but you might not get much for OSD, because I suspect that hardly anyone owns it, and to be frank, it is difficult to know where to start when giving feedback (there is so much that is very very wrong). Anyway, my main question is:

    Can you please give an indication of just how much work you (and your team) are prepared to do on OSD? Because when I look at this route I can see at least 100 hours of remediation work, rising to maybe 200 hours if the originally anticipated freight features and yards at Hamilton are to be re-instated (with some gameplay)..... and maybe reaching 400 hours depending on what's in the locker.... i.e. if you have a passenger service to instate (or re-instate).... and if you have to do a map-wide re-optimisation to enable it.....

    How much info do you want, and what are you (realistically) prepared to do.....? To give you full feedback will take me about ten hours. Even to give you pointers will take me an hour or two to write up. And if there is no real desire to fully redeem OSD, then there doesn't seem to me to be much point in even starting the process. Although it would be a shame, because the CN liveries are superb, the GP9RM is quite homely, and some of the physics is quite interesting (even on OSD's subtle grades).

    OSD is fully redeemable. It has massive potential. But at the momemt it is half built, and built very badly in places. And it is half-featured (game mechanics) and thinly spread (gameplay content) - and where there is gameplay it is often not finished and/or not funtional. Ironically, some of the most severly broken bits yield decent gameplay (free-form shunting puzzles) that might be of interest to a lot of players (and the target market/community)..... if this gameplay was by design (and carefully designed)....

    Worst of all - and I really must draw attention to this.... is that OSD has gameplay where there is an instruction to "Wait 20 minutes".... :o

    And it is bad enough for this to exist in any game, but it is made much worse by the fact that it only exists because the task (filling ten ethanol tankers) has not been scripted. Someone has literally decided "Let's not bother scripting it, let's put in an instruction to wait 20 minutes....". It's really really bad, in an epic kind of way.
     
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  4. HeyYoPaulie!

    HeyYoPaulie! Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. I've also submitted a ticket asking for passengers to spawn into the stations on Oakville, so hopefully this will be actioned.

    Currently they look like ghost stations - it's an immersion killer.

    Would be amazing to have a few passenger services layered in too :)
     
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  5. HeyYoPaulie!

    HeyYoPaulie! Well-Known Member

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    I've never seen a single passenger on Oakville. Can you share a service ID please? I'd like to test it. Thank you
     
  6. dcnine#5410

    dcnine#5410 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t really know what passenger services could be layered in though... IRL you’d only have the GO train, VIA, and the Amtrak Maple Leaf, none of which we have the rolling stock for in game. Which really sucks, because IRL this is fundamentally a passenger route, CN doesn’t even own the tracks on most of it.
     
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  7. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Oakville - Aldershot. GO. SFJ's Baby Bullet painted green?

    I am not an expert on Canadian railways, but something like that?

    (Seriously, I do not know for sure - it is just a guess - I seem to remember someone posting a picture of a green Baby Bullet about a year ago.... and I suspect that OSD and SFJ share some of the same TSW technology, which is why they are being renovated together (?) - but as I said, just a guess, and/or faint memory).
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2021
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  8. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Here you go - Oakville station at noon (spawned from the underpass between the platforms):

    Train Sim World_20210506161347.jpg

    Train Sim World_20210506161421.jpg
     
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  9. dcnine#5410

    dcnine#5410 Well-Known Member

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    I mean it would be close- but still inaccurate. The baby bullet is from the same family as GO’s locos, it’s called the MP36. GO operates the MP54 on this line, which has more horsepower (5400 vs 3600) and a few small little cosmetic differences. The bigger difference is really the cab car though, which is completely different. GO used to operate Caltrain-style cab cars, but they’ve been gone for years now in service. I mean I’d personally love a GO train, but I doubt they’d be willing to make something that inaccurate after the HBL backlash.

    (I’ve added photos of the cab cars just so that one can see the difference)
     

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  10. TrainSim-Adam

    TrainSim-Adam Staff Member

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    Thanks for the thread. I have noted it for the team to take a look at.

    Specifically regarding passengers though. The way the system works is that in order to spawn, passengers must first choose where they are going and which train they are catching to get there. This means passengers will spawn and not necessarily get the first train that arrives. The flip side is that if no train is scheduled to arrive no passengers will spawn.

    Manually place some passengers - If we added these (ie static animations with no train interaction) they will be present day/night/summer/winter - not great.
    Add a passenger train 'layer' to the timetable - What train should be used? The reason such a layer is not already present is the lack of anything appropriate. The MP36-3C? Cue feedback about the wrong livery.

    Suggestions welcome, but I make no promises. I'll ignore anything using the word 'just' ;)
     
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  11. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    I think that what I am, um.... suggesting is that:

    - OSD was (um, probably) originally specified to include a GO passenger service (the ticket machines are the same green);
    - that the (correct) passenger rolling stock has been developed, and is as you describe, and is "in the locker"; but,
    - they didn't get anywhere near to finishing the OSD route, and the passenger stuff got cut out, along with 50% of the yards at Hamilton (they've picked up the track, but the "industrial estate" is still there, with some really quite alarming crossings that lead into it....), and a substantial chunk of gameplay (maybe 70% of it) was removed at the point when they released the route to the adoring crowds.

    The current (very sparse) freight timetable appears to me to be built around an absent passenger timetable. So - OSD either needs the GO services, or it needs more freight (because you very rarely see any freight AI).

    I think that is what I am saying.... ;-)

    But all of this is, of course, just a guess. ;-)

    Consequently, it would take a LOT of work to bring the OSD route back to full specification (most of which would be optimisation - after the broken stuff is fixed).

    Even if the passenger stuff isn't real, say, and the "locker" is quite empty......... (despite the passengers spawning, which currently burn up memory, by the way....), it would still take a lot of work to bring some atmosphere to the existing freight stuff...

    At the momemt, the OSD DLC is a completely dead prospect. But it can be resurrected. Given time.
     
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  12. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    I'll just say that i don't know what's feasible in terms of Oakville improvements, but glad to see it's getting some much-needed attention.

    Would it be possible to layer in some SPG trains for added variety and traffic volume? Now that everyone owns SPG, it wouldn't leave anyone out.

    Conversely, would it be possible to see the Oakville rolling stock on SPG? Not the locos, but mixing the freight cars into the SPG manifest freights would add a lot of visual variety.

    Otherwise i don't have any specific suggestions except the route needs to be busier. I would gladly pay for a loco DLC, but ONLY if it adds services.
     
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  13. Coppo

    Coppo Well-Known Member

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    One of the main issues with the current version was caused by the over the top reaction to the original release and the subsequent downsizing of the playable area to exclude the unfinished parts of the dock/ industrial area.
    so from my point of view:
    - finishing (or making playable) the redacted dock area. I know people would want it to reflect what is in Google earth, but I'd be happy with a simpler version if that is all that can be done.
    - fixing the point at this location (which is manually operable in game) as it does not appear on the map. The result was that the train collided with the invisible barrier…
    oakville map error.jpg
    - fixing the [9] key map to actually show all the track as it makes it very difficult to compare the modelled world with the map (this may mean moving the invisible walls/ boundaries)
    - a passenger service would be a nice addition, even if it used a fictional livery with the MP36.
    - some full length freight runs would be welcome.
     
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  14. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Could there be an alternative timetable with these activities using the Caltrain MP36? It is inaccurate, but with the choice of both purely CN timetable or active timetable, I think many would be fine with this. If Caltrain Baby Bullets were a problem for some people, they could stick to the original timetable. West Harbour being a terminal station with only 1 track approach could make for some interesting services with you waiting for a train to arrive to get a green out to Oakville.
     
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  15. HeyYoPaulie!

    HeyYoPaulie! Well-Known Member

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    Hi Adam,

    The big picture / key area of focus for improving Oakville is making the route feel busier and more "alive", both in terms of services (freight and ideally also passenger) and feeling more "lived in".
    • Anything you guys can do on creating passenger population would significantly improve the route.
    • I would gladly welcome the addition of passenger services with existing (albeit it inaccurate) stock. The current situation of having stations without passengers is also wholly inaccurate, so that accuracy and authenticity argument can work both ways :)
    • Regarding how passenger behaviour works / spawning: Passengers don't spawn on stations when creating passenger services using scenario planner - should they? Or is that functionality that needs to be added? Have I understood you correctly?
    If you'd like to experience the type of improvements being suggested, there are excellent scenarios over on the train Sim Community Page - I encourage you and the team to give them a whirl for inspiration: https://mods.trainsimcommunity.com/...os/c51-canadian-national-oakville-subdivision

    Oakville has the potential to be an excellent route, and I'm excited / hopeful that you guys will breathe new life into it.

    Thank you for responding to this thread - your engagement is very much appreciated :)
     
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  16. HeyYoPaulie!

    HeyYoPaulie! Well-Known Member

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    Great idea :)
     
  17. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Let's see :D
     
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  18. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    It's a shame osd has such low playability value at this stage, would have loved to see the mainline extended to have "Canadian sand patch grade" if you know what i mean, some freight runs and the yard for shunting and loading, sadly this will never happen, hope adam and his team can salvage some playability nonetheless.
     
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  19. Cotax

    Cotax Well-Known Member

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    I olny want RD support for GP9rm and GP38. I don't know why, but I love to drive this two locos on Oakville. I kinda like the interior and sounds, especially GP9rm.
     
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  20. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Well, the good news for you (assuming you have OSD and TSW on PC via Steam), is that you can simply roll back to the original depot release of OSD, on Steam. This will give you:

    - all of the originally tracked Hamilton industrial zone yards (including their visibility on the map); and,
    - removal of the inivisible barriers that impede your path on the track at various random locations.

    Have a go with it, and see if you prefer that version. I am guessing (and this is just a guess), that you will find that the Hamilton yards in "unredacted" original form are over-topped with lots of randomly placed industrial buildings, which you can drive through - through the walls..... And I guess that instead of hitting the invisible barriers across the track.... that your session will just end without warning because your train will leave the actual playable area. After you have played it, let us know your thoughts. Or your reaction.

    That picture again.jpg

    So, anyway, I personally disagree with you that "the main issues with the current version was caused by the over the top reaction to the original release". I think that the main issues with the current version are that the DLC was maybe about 50% completed and about 0% QA'd upon its original rushed-out release, and that the current release is just a very poorly patched up version.

    OSD stands out amongst all of the original TSW DLCs as completely unfinished. To bring it up to the standard (and expected scope) of any of the other DLCs will require a huge amount of work. I personally think that the "huge amount of work" bit, including the re-scoping for passenger and freight services, plus the Hamilton yards (but without the buildings), plus re-scripting some of the very few existing services, plus a reasonable attempt at some QA, is justified - and that it would restore the sales potential.

    But if all that is on offer is a further minor patch-up on the existing patch-up, then I would say leave the OSD DLC alone, withdraw it from sale, and move on to something else (even though I really really do like the GP9RM....).

    If OSD is going to get some attention, then give it the attention it deserves - an almost complete re-build.
     
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  21. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I was just thinking, does it need a full fledged passenger timetable for passengers to spawn, or would 1 or 2 services a day be enough? Wouldn't be there any possibilities for a railtour-alike special service then? I know it's bending reality, but with 1 or 2 services a day there'd be still plenty of services left to run without even noticing this incorrect passenger train, for those of us who really dislike seeing any incorrect train.

    I'm not familiar with the area, so I have no clue what would be the most appropiate for such a special service. There's no old historic US rolling stock yet, and with LIRR and NEC using electric traction, the only options would be either Caltrain stock, the upcoming MBTA stock, or some freight locomotive hauling Amtrak coaches.

    Obviously this wouldn't be a solution if we'd need a full fledged passenger timetable for passengers to spawn accordingly. Then we'd just need another solution. An alternative timetable perhaps?
     
  22. Coppo

    Coppo Well-Known Member

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    The intent behind my original message didn't come across correctly because I left a critical bit out. What I meant to say was the main issues with the current version was caused by the over the top reaction by DTG to the reaction from users to the original release... Type in haste , regret at leisure.
    I did, and still do have the original TSW version and I played with the route through the bizarrely placed buildings, it was an interesting experience. These extra locations would have been, and still could be, a real joy to explore and utilise. I agree that it would be a huge amount of work to bring it up to reflect Google Earth, hence my comment about accepting a simpler version if that is all that can be done (for now). I do not think we will get a complete rebuild at this time, and a pragmatic set of fixes may have to do, for now..
    This is not the only route where there are tracks that are not accessible to the user, and I do wonder why they model some of the areas (that may even be out of sight) and then never allow them to be used.
    Hopefully that clarifies things.
     
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  23. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Oh, okay.... No worries. I sort of still disagree with your clarification version though.... ;-O

    DTG had to either withdraw the DLC and finish OSD at least to the specification shown in the initial version of the user-manual (with functioning yards at Hamilton), or quickly cut out all of the yards (that they initially decided to obscure with the buildings) and revise the user-manual to reflect the working/functioning scope of the actual release.

    And they went for the second option, because it was much quicker. They still didn't do a very good job. I don't think there was an option to quickly re-instate the yards - lots of work, as you say. I actually think the pragmatic thing to do now, if DTG want Oakville to be a long-term success on its back catalogue, would be to re-launch OSD with passenger services, and with the Hamilton yards re-instated (for free, for current owners, and as a reasonably comparable product for new buyers).

    So, for now, I await for feedback from TrainSim-Adam on whether or not he has been given a green light to do a seriously substantial piece of work on OSD. And then I'd be happy to provide some detailed feedback on the issues with the current scope, in order to help expedite the work.
     
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  24. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I agree, except that I wouldn't expect such a major upgrade to be free, even for current owners. Also, I'm not convinced that the PC team would have the time or the remit to do that much work on OSD. Are they not basically tasked with bringing the preserved routes up to TSW2 spec. by ironing out bugs etc. Introducing passengers and a new trainset to carry them would be a job for a development team, would it not?
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
  25. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    That's why I think bringing in the missing gameplay with Caltrain MP36 as an alternate timetable might not be completely crazy. If the route had basically everything prepared for that, why not use it.
     
  26. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    I´m not an expert on American railroads but Amtrak could be a possibility as well if the coaches will be added to game by rush hour DLC (not sure if they will be the same model that you plan for rush hour). See pics from Burlington with the 80s colors:

    Amtrak/VIA - Burlington West, ON (BTW) (trainweb.org)

    The F40PH is not Caltrain´s one, but Caltrain´s is an starting point for design at least. You could even release an Amtrak pack from that period that could be usable in other lines as well if required, including Oakville. I think that could give a bit more flexibility as it´s one of the most popular operators anyway. But in that case please include the P42 Genesis loco in the pack as well hahahaha :D

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
  27. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Amtrak doesn't run in Canada (except to the border towns), which is where OSD is located.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
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  28. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    I got a couple signal problems to report:

    1.- I noticed that in the switches aproximately 0.7 miles north of Bayview Junction I have a static speed limit of 15 mi/h followed by a 30mi/h limit while the light signal allows for "maximum line speed". Since the switch doesn't make me change track, my guess is that what is wrong are the limits and not the signal.

    Here is the location in the map (where the train is, not the objective):

    U55621-05 - Wrong signal location.png

    And this is the screenshot of the signal allowing "maximum line speed" while on the right you can see the incoming speed limit tool is showing 15 mi/h on the tracks a few yards later. I think the 15 mi/h limit is wrong, but if it isn't the signal aspect should be "slow" and not "clear".

    U55621-05 - Wrong signal 1.png



    2.- Signals take waaaaaaay too long to turn red after the train passes them. In real life it takes like 2 seconds ... in TSW2 it takes more than 20 (the train has almost passed completely when it changes). I think this happens in all the signals in the route.

    This is what happens in TSW2. The loco has passed more than 15 seconds ago, the signal still has not changed.

    too long to change to red.png

    The following video shows what happens in real life. It takes like 2 seconds:
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
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  29. Coppo

    Coppo Well-Known Member

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    Some idle speculation.
    Thinking about it, if a Go Transit train set (assuming DTG have a licence) could be introduced there would be an opportunity to extend the existing route to include some more stations. Whilst DTG say this is difficult in general, I would think that in this instance because there are no passenger services at this time the passenger timetable would be a layer that rarely interacts with the existing timetable, and any additional track would be added to areas outside of the current map, effectively wrapping around the existing section, and that could be a straight copy of what is there now. It can be sold as standalone item, however, if you already own OSD it could overwrite the existing route, effectively merging the two into one..
     
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  30. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I agree - it should have been a job for the development team before OSD released....

    - before they were (presumably) forced to stop working on it;
    - before they (presumably) decided not to include the passenger services;
    - before they completed (or even started?) writing the gameplay in the Hamilton yards;
    - before they decided to randomly drop loads of buildings onto the yard trackwork to cover it up;
    - before they stopped completing the scripting for the ethanol loading service modules;
    - before they decided to not bother to check whether the map's boundaries were properly defined; and,
    - before they started to do any QA on the route (at all).

    It wouldn't be an "upgrade". It would be completion of the DLC. Seriously - DTG need to ask themselves a stark question regarding the OSD DLC...., which is:

    "Now that we have a cash surplus and some more human resource available to us, and now that we can buy ourselves a bit of time to complete the OSD DLC (unlike those hectic days when the pressure was on to get OSD out and quickly generate some sales), should we now complete the OSD DLC to the speciifcation that we originally wanted and re-issue it, or should we just leave it alone?"

    What they should not do, in my opinion, is a half-hearted attempt to patch up a half-completed DLC. It just isn't worth it.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
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  31. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, if it's just a small patch up of a dlc that in itself isn't that great, Adam can better focus on other routes or features that are higher in demand or more urgent, at this point patching osd is dragging water to the ocean. To be a decent dlc it'd have to be a re release with a major overhaul which I don't see DTG ever do, they already moved on and forgot about it.
     
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  32. HeyYoPaulie!

    HeyYoPaulie! Well-Known Member

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    Let's keep the focus of this thread on constructive feedback and suggestions for what the preservation crew can reasonably improve (based on feedback from Adam) and co-ordinate with him to implement as many meaningful improvements as we can.
     
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  33. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Well, you can take Amtrak to major Canadian cities like Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal. I guess you could call them "border towns", though I don't think most of us would.
     
  34. chrisvazquez7

    chrisvazquez7 Active Member

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    One of the things that bothers me the most about OSD that Adam could theoretically fix:

    The crossings. The artwork in game uses American crossings. However, Canada has different crossbucks. As a bare minimum, I would like the crossbucks to be reskinned so they use the Canadian style.

    [​IMG]

    Also, most, if not all, of the crossings in the industrial area are completely inaccurate (They don't have gates!). It would be amazing if the PC Team could make a few more models that could be used at those crossings. Below are two street view images of the two most common types of crossings in the industrial area:

    osd-1.png osd-2.png

    Another thing: In the industrial area where the CP and CN tracks cross there are signals protecting the interlocking, which are missing from the game. This might be for the best though, as the game doesn't do well with signals in free-roam situations.

    Thirdly: the signal progression in game is not prototypical for Canadian signals. For example, going into a yard, you will get a Restricting Signal. However, as seen below, the progression to get to the Restricting Signal in the game differs from what would happen in real life.

    tsw-bug2.png

    Another thing that bothered me quite a bit about OSD, but I'm not sure if the PC crew will be able to solve... Virtually none of the spurs on the mainline between Aldershot and Oakville would have power switches. They would be hand-operated switches, including the ones at Burlington Triangle, where you go quite a few times in Service Mode and in Scenarios. In the game, if you are on a service going to the Burlington Triangle, you would get a Restricting Signal at Burlington East. What would prototypically happen would be you would get a Limited to Stop at Burlington East (meaning you can pass signal and through turnouts at 45mph, expecting to stop at the next signal). In game, you could place a Stop At instruction directly before the hand-operated switch to add some realism (as a hand-operated main track switch would ALWAYS be left in the normal position). By adding this instruction, you would prevent the dispatcher from automatically lining the hand-operated switch into the spur when it set the path for the last signal. However, this may be out of the scope of the PC Crew...

    tsw-bug1.png

    If you need any additional info, Adam, let me know, as I work for a Canadian railway, and would be happy to lend you my local expertise.

    Just a quick side note: It's cool to see one of my videos still relevant more than 10 years later haha!
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  35. HeyYoPaulie!

    HeyYoPaulie! Well-Known Member

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    Great post chrisvazquez7! Very insightful.

    Hoping this will help Adam and his team work their magic with OSD.

    Nicely played sir
     
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  36. Peter jackson

    Peter jackson New Member

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    Atleast with the scenario planner this route receives a bit of life, but even then consists are limited, for example to add multiple units to the mp36 I have to add a service ahead and couple up at Oakville station, or the fact that I can only haul coal with the dash-8, granted these are scenario planner restrictions, it wouldn’t be a problem if we had passenger service and updated modern locos/ timetable for the route. I think osd has the potential for some really good dlcs. Or Atleast give us some freedom in scenario planner . It would be great to choose how many locos in whichever position hauling whatever you want.
     
  37. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    If they wanted a i passenger Services then a reskinned Baby Bullet into go transit paint unbranded or Amtrak reskinned F40PH with Boston-Providence Amfleets will work because the route has Maple Leaf Amtrak service. Later on upgraded to include Siemens Charger locomotives 300s ALC-42 from Another route. Might as well activate the passenger information displays on some station Final Destination on them is Toronto Union Station in the case of Amtrak New York Penn Station.
     
  38. james#6343

    james#6343 Member

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    Hi Adam,

    I know you and your team are revisiting the Oakville Subdivision DLC, and I would like to offer my help in anyway you may need it. I actually live no more than a 20 minute walk from the passenger line that runs through the OSD and I currently have quite a lot of spare time due to the ongoing pandemic. If you or anyone in your team need any pictures, audio recordings, information on gradients, signalling, or just about anything else that I may be able to provide, please let me know.



     
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  39. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Personally I’d pay for a passenger dlc even if it was a generic livery.
     
  40. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Did you this mod on sometimes game play maybe?
    https://mods.trainsimcommunity.com/...motives/i1072-go-transit-mp40ph-3c-old-livery

    Paul
     
  41. TripleJ814

    TripleJ814 Well-Known Member

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    Another suggestion, pretty sure the CN GP38-2 is supposed to have an e-bell.
     
  42. dcnine#5410

    dcnine#5410 Well-Known Member

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    Also on the topic of the GP38, it really bugs me how the GP9RM has a full bilingual cab whereas the 38 is pretty obviously ripped from SPG, and therefore all in english.
     
  43. WaveyDavey

    WaveyDavey Well-Known Member

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    With regard to how quickly signals change as a train passes them...... Every signal is different and will change only when the train passes over the next track section and therefore triggers the interlocking to revert it back to danger. This could be a couple of yards after the signal or half a mile after the signal. To compare like you have you would need to compare video of the exact same signal location as the one in the game. ;)
     
  44. chrisvazquez7

    chrisvazquez7 Active Member

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    That's not quite accurate. Yes, the signal will drop when the train passes into the next block, but the block section starts right at the signal. It's never half a mile after the signal -- at least in Canada. There will be insulated joints on both rails that will electrically insulate the last block from the next one (the block the signal is protecting). To avoid the crew from seeing the signal drop if they are moving slowly, there is a timer delay. On Canadian signals, I would say it's usually 2 - 3 seconds after the train occupies the block. Definitely not after the whole train clears the signal like it's implemented in the game.
     
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  45. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Same in Australia. Signals show what is happening ahead and authorise the driver to proceed as far as that signal is defined to cover, that isn't necessarily as far as the next signal but generally is. Some signals for example authorise departure from a platform across a set of locked points and that's it, it means nothing beyond that.

    I've not ever anywhere in my travels around the world seen an automatic signal that didn't return to normal (danger) as the train passed. Manual signals will have rules governing when the signaller drops them. If they are protecting interlocking they will be left at proceed until the entire train has cleared the interlocking plant so avoid unintended changing of points under a train. Automatic signals don't work this way because the system controlling the signal is also controlling the interlocking - its not the signal aspect governing the interlocking like it is with manual signals.

    Paul
     
  46. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    I still think the route needs some timetable love like RT got back in the day. The route feels empty without GO, but even the freight action isn't exactly bustling.
     
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  47. Bradley

    Bradley Well-Known Member

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    I think the old map design for Oakville would be better than the butchered one we have in game now, would be nice if the track that is already there is put back on the map where it belongs
     
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  48. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    I for one would like the whistle boards added as I do not think this entire area is a quiet zone. James#6343 above lives in the area and would be able to get pictures of the boards, I am sure based on his offer to assist. North American standard is to place them 0.5 miles from the level crossing.
     
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  49. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    I have just added a post regarding the whistle boards along this route and the need for them if it is not a quiet zone for the entire thing. Help on visuals would be most appreciated.
     
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  50. chrisvazquez7

    chrisvazquez7 Active Member

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    Not sure about the US or Mexico, but in Canada, the standard is 1/4 mile from the crossing, not 0.5 miles. Also, I can't confirm 100%, but I believe there are some crossings on this route that require the whistle, but most would be bell only. The sign for a bell only crossing (we normally don't use the term Quiet Zone in Canada...) is a white square with a black W overlaid with a red circle and a red cross. An example can be seen here:

    tsw2.png
     
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