Suggestions Guide

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by trainsimplayer, Sep 12, 2021.

  1. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Hello! I'm going to start off here with a quick note, before I begin.

    This is not a suggestion for a suggestion guide, or a suggestion of any sort. If that's what you came here for.

    This is a thread made by me, to help people in making Suggestions.

    This is practically my response to the recent 'spike' in no-details suggestions.

    "So why'd you put it in suggestions then?"

    It's simple. When someone - specifically someone who makes this type of suggestion - comes on to the suggestion forums, they may see this.

    Maybe (and I hope this proves true) this post will be helpful enough for a Sticky, and help make suggestions better.

    Shall we begin?

    Contents
    • Route Suggestions
    • Loco Suggestions
    Route Suggestions
    Route Suggestions often find themselves the common cases of these suggestions.

    Let's begin with a Do and Don't guide:

    Don't Name the suggestion the following:
    • Route
    • Route Suggestion
    • Route Proposal
    • New Route
    • Please Add (Route)
    • TSW Route
    • Any other vague name
    Do name it any of the following:
    • (Operator) : (Route Name)
    • (Route Name)
    • (Route Name) with (Locos)
    • Similar style of name.
    A few Examples:

    "NEC: Washington - Baltimore"
    "Fife Circle Line"
    "Hamburg - Hannover with ICE2"

    (Examples based on TS1 Routes)

    Don't make the suggestion this:
    • Add × because I like it
    • I want route × because It is good
    • [Route name in the title] (Literally just a singular picture)
    • Or anything as similar
    Do the following:
    • Introduction (Important)
      • Small Introduction to the route
      • Where does it go to/from?
      • What trains will it have?
      • Any Landmarks, Points of Interest or outstanding Scenery (more optional)
      • What is the route like?
    Keep it simple in the intro, you're just overviewing what's coming up in this suggestion.
    • Rolling Stock (Important)
      • Included Locos (Important)
        • Image(s)
        • Paragraph about them (Optional)
      • Potential DLCs (Optional)
        • Image(s)
        • Paragraph about them (Optional)
      • Layers from existing routes
    Dedicate this section to the trains.
    Nothing else matters at this present time except
    T R A I N S
    Example of what to do:

    Class 390
    Virgin_Trains_Class_390_Pendolino_at_Rugeley_Trent_Valley_Station_-34519915436-_1.jpg
    The Class 390 'Pendolino' was built between 2001 and 2004 (Originally) by Alstom.

    Operating InterCity services along the West Coast Mainline, the 390 is a tilting train, capable of 140mph (however it is restricted to 125mph)

    • The Route (Important)
      • First, start with a description of the route.
      • Repeat the Intro's questions with more detail. Point out Landmarks, POIs, Sights of the line, Operational Things, Stations, etc.
      • Speaking of stations, be sure to go in depth about them;
    Here's a few examples of what to do:
    1. Description (Optional)
      • Here you practically write the journey between point A & B, describing the route to the reader. (I just made the name up on the spot) (This covers the entire section, by the way)
    2. Station List (Minimal) (Important)
      • Literally just a list of stations, use bold to denote Major Stations, Junctions or Termini, if you wish.
    3. Station List (Detailed) (Optional)
      • Have a list of Stations, but instead feature an Image, and a small paragraph about the station, the scenery, etc.

    • Services (Important)
      • Show the service patterns of the route, include AI services if you wish.
      • The way I personally set services out is the following:
    [Frequency] • End Point A - End Point B (Class ×××) (All Stations {or} Calling at: ×, ×, × & ×)

    If the service starts/ends off the map at either end, I'd put it like this:

    [Frequency] • End Point A - End Point B (For: {Real End Point}) (Class ×××, All Stations {or} Calling at: ×, ×, × & ×)

    Services are crucial to letting a player know what they are getting, a stroll through the mountains, or a hustle & bustle urban network?

    Frequency will usually be in:

    Tph • Trains per Hour
    Tpd • Trains per Day
    Tp×h • Trains per × Hours

    • Misc. (Optional)
    • This could include:
      • Scenarios
        • Any Scenario ideas you'd like to see?
      • Collectibles
        • Anything special you'd like as a collectible?
      • Mastery
        • Any Ideas for the rewards?
      • Anything you want to add
        • Add it!
    • Final Words (Somewhat Important)
    Not of this post, of course.

    Use this to say why you think the route would bring to the game, and why you think it would be good.

    And feel free to ask for people's feedback on the suggestion. It's the best way to improve!

    Tips
    • Watch and learn
      • Look into suggestions on the forum and look what other people do.
    • Feel free to ask
    • Take Feedback onboard
      • Shutting Feedback out is the worst thing to do. Trust me.
    • Don't treat this like a rulebook, there is plenty of way to deviate, just use it like I intend it, a guide.
    • Feel Free to Post
      • If someone has posted a route that you want to suggest, don't hesitate. The more the merrier, and it shows your support for it.
    • Express what you want, not what someone else wants
    • Avoid Necrobumping or Duplication/Spam
      • Not only are these both against the rules, they are also frustrating in the sense that they push threads down (necrobump, that is) and in the case of duplication, just cause needless clutter.
      • On the contrary, it is often quite good to have the better old threads come to the forefront again, but try not make a habit of it.
    Loco Suggestions
    Loco Suggestions are far easier than route suggestions, let's take a look.
    (Example Train; Class 700)

    First, start with a Photo:
    [​IMG]

    Then, how about a little introduction to the loco?

    The BR Class 700 - Operated by Thameslink - Is a modern loco, having entered service in 2016.
    Part of the Desiro City family - along with the 707 and 717 - the 700 operates all Thameslink services today, and the locos see service between places such as Bedford, London and Brighton.

    The loco would add {×} services to the route.

    Then, if you feel like it, you could add the services it would add:
    (Example; 700 for Brighton Mainline):

    Service patterns are as follows:
    2tph • Cambridge (Starting East Croydon) - Brighton
    2tph • Bedford (Starting East Croydon) - Brighton
    2tph • Peterborough (Starting East Croydon) - Horsham (Ends at Three Bridges) via Redhill
    2tph • Bedford (Starting East Croydon) - Gatwick Airport

    Which means that, between Gatwick Airport and East Croydon, the Class 700 would be operating 8tph.


    If you choose to, you can add things such as the history of the train, or any other information you may wish to. (I didn't really need to say that, did I?)

    Example:
    Class 700 Segment • 'Rush Hour: Loco DLCs', by Me. https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/rush-hour-loco-dlcs.45121/

    Brighton Mainline • Class 700
    [​IMG]


    The BR Class 700 (Thameslink) Is the most modern of the three units shown here, having entered service in 2016.

    Operating all Thameslink services today, the locos see service between places such as Bedford, London and Brighton.

    Thameslink operate a massive amount of services on the line.

    Service patterns are as follows:
    (On BML)

    2tph • Cambridge (Starting East Croydon) - Brighton
    2tph • Bedford (Starting East Croydon) - Brighton

    2tph • Peterborough (Starting East Croydon) - Horsham (Ends at Three Bridges) via Redhill

    2tph • Bedford (Starting East Croydon) - Gatwick Airport

    Which means that, between Gatwick Airport and East Croydon, the Class 700 would be operating 8tph.


    ------------------------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------------

    Anything to add?
    Reply with it and I will stick it in. I can only add so much from my experience, and I know there are many of you out there who make fabulous suggestions, and constantly raise the bar.
    Feedback is appreciated

    Thanks for Reading :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2021
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  2. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    Brilliant guide, a mod needs to pin this
     
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  3. Jonne1184

    Jonne1184 Well-Known Member

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    Very nice write up! Unfortunately though, I don't expect those who cannot be bothered with putting three seconds of thought into the thread title, to be actually bothered with reading this guide here.

    Stricter moderation might be the only solution to this problem.
     
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  4. Rybnicki

    Rybnicki Well-Known Member

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    Thing is, it doesn't really change how likely the route is to be made, does it? And if there is any sort of community here, people who know more technical information about routes can add detail to someone's suggestion. I don't know that forcing people to write referenced essays is very encouraging.
     
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  5. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

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    I would like to suggest routes now and again, not sit an exam or apply for a job.

    It shouldn't matter if you write something big or small, as it's feedback from the community.
    You cannot expect people to write essays, referencing facts and photos of rolling stock. When I get to posts like that, I scroll past because I don't have half an hour to read through a whole suggestion.

    If you write something smaller and manageable, it allows the community to get involved more by adding to it etc
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
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  6. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I would say that it does change the chances of it coming to game, as a better suggestion is a more convincing suggestion. And more convincing suggestions will get many people enthousiastic about what you're suggesting, thus making sure DTG pays more attention to it.

    The main goal of suggestions should be to inform people about what you're suggesting, and convince them it would be a route that deserves priority over the creation of other route, and deserves the money of players once it's on sale. Then DTG can judge by the response whether the route is worth their time, and will get enough sales when produced.

    I would not say every route/loco suggestion should be as extensive as the ones I and some other forum members make. But 'add x because I like it', or just a picture or one sentence, is just not good enough to have any effect. Copying Wiki info to use for describing a loco or route is even accaptable, as long as you do mention the fact that you just straight up copied it. But at the very least just briefly explain what would make your suggestion interesting for other players.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
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  7. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    I'm not expecting people to write "essays" like myself, some folk actually do things with their free time :)

    This - per the title - is a guide. That is my sole intention.

    The purpose of this is basically just to say "right, this is what a good suggestion should have".

    If they don't want to take that on, fair play, that's up to them. If they do, I'm glad!

    I believe many people agree that it can be frustrating.
    Well, it most certainly helps.

    As jolojonasgames says, a well built - even just a few paragraphs, which takes less than 10 minutes to write up, with a couple of pictures - suggestion is better than "I want route ×".

    Adding Detail to someone else's suggestion is always good, granted, but the OP is suggesting the route, and the community has a large role to play in showing support. If a suggestion is literally just a line of text + a picture, what do I learn of the route? Nothing, absoluetly nothing, unless I have knowledge of the route.

    Again, per my first reply here, I'm not forcing anyone to do anything, this is no more than a guide, with some advice.
    It is very likely they wouldn't care less for it, but it is worth a try at the end of the day.


    Also, just to point out my intentions here, there here's a little quote I'll bring attention to from my first post.
    So, to clarify, I'm not forcing or threatening or anything towards these people - mostly newer members - I'm simply making a little guide to what to do and don't do in a good suggestion.

    Thanks folks :)
     
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  8. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

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    Oh this is really good!
    It'd be nice, if possible, if DTG had this, either this one, or a version of their own, pinned at the top of the suggestions page as it's far more helpful for people than the current pinned topic "Question Thread - Nahvervehr Dresden Streams" ever is. I don't even get why that's pinned in suggestions really.

    Really great work, and I hope this does indeed help people make far better and detailed suggestions.

    The most important thing is to actually SELL your suggestion, more than anything.
    No one's going to google your suggestion cause the name sounded so nice.
     
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  9. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    I hope this does help improve suggestions around the board.
    Saying "More Details" doesn't help at all, and we - as the community - should be helping others in these.

    That's why I took the time (A few hours of planning what I wanted to say, and looking back on my and, some other folks suggestions) to see what both I and they put in suggestions.

    And you've hit the nail on the head. The main point of a suggestion is to sell it to others. If you put 0 effort in it, you may as well not post, nobody will support it. Nobody will take an interest, and therefore it just shoot's it's chances of being made in the foot.

    Selling Suggestions is most of the battle.
    This Guide is the Battle Plan.
    God I have played too much HOI4 recently.
     
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  10. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't really have said it better myself!
     
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  11. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

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    That's true
    Not everyone's a masochist :)
    I believe if I recall correctly I took an entire day, early morning to late-night writing my Utrecht-Gouda-Rotterdam/DenHaag suggestion, and the effort shows.
    It's really ok if a suggestion is pretty short, as long as it makes me feel like I actually know more about the suggestion than when I saw the title.

    One thing I would say though, though I'm speaking from personal opinion here, I personally actually don't mind necrobumping all that much. Spam certainly, and duplicate, only if it's significantly better done, or enough time is inbetween.
    But necrobumping a really old and forgotten suggestion you happen to run into is entirely fine by me, or if you're just adding something or some context to a slightly aging suggestion of yours every once in a while, as long as it's not every week or something, and actually adds something. But that's just my opinion. :)

    Also, lastly, I just remembered my feature suggestion of a while back, which unfortunately, despite my enthusiasm for it, has died out.
    Feature suggestions are also very important and do belong in suggestions, perhaps if you're finding yourself with the will and the time to do so, a third guide, maybe "misc", or specifically dedicated to features and not routes and rolling stock, could be made for these kinds of things.
    Just an idea though :)
     
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  12. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe, but if you can only be bothered to put 20 seconds of thought and zero effort into your suggestion, you can't expect others (including the people in a position to actually build the thing) to put much more into their consideration of it.

    You honestly think someone saying, "I'd like the Sleaford to Skegness line" is enough to trigger a team at DTG to start researching the trains, operators, landscape and possibilities of building a route they'd never considered before?
     
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  13. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Two words for you
    Cathcart... Circle...
    DTG don't just look at what the community ask for or want, they build what they want to build and we just have to kind of lump it
    Unfortunately when people ask for routes they invariably ask for a terminal or busy route and DTG just can't do that
    But by all means people should write SOMETHING more than "I want the bit from Blackpool to Hull..." even if it's only so that people on the forum can have a nosey, rather than DTG reading and building
     
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  14. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, Suggestions don't have to be essays, they just have to sell the route to people, and have a decent amount of info.

    The main reason I pointed that out is the risk of someone reporting it, and an old thread dies forever.

    I think I'll rework that to "Avoid" rather than [bold] "Don't"

    In my original write up of this (yes, I did two) I had Feature Suggestions listed, but I cut it because feature Suggestions would be a very varied thing to write about, it can change all the time, and have noticeable differences.

    For Example, my Multiplayer and Route Linking suggestions, I added some Concept Images in.

    Some people (I remember one did this for a Ticket Inspector mode) choose deepfake-videos.

    So I'll consider that one :)
     
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  15. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

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    Interesting.
    I'm actually rather curious now, I don't have Cathcart Circle, but than what's the backstory behind that route?
    Certainly there must've been someone asking for it, right? Especially cause I do feel like a lot of people are quite happy about it.

    Though I have from the start hated how they marketed Cathcart Circle as some sort of "foreign route", and how they supposedly finally listened to our demand for more foreign routes. As if Scotland, at least for now, isn't still part of the UK.
     
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  16. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    I don't quite think that's fair.

    As has been implied on the Cathcart streams - the choice of Cathcart was more in response to the large support for Scottish routes. Matt himself has said he'd like to see Edinburgh - Glasgow, which is (I believe) the most-requested line in Scotland (WCML/ECML Excluded, of course.)

    They do take things into consideration, we know that fine well. Why else would they choose, say, BML?

    But Cathcart was just a little starting place for Bonnie Scotland.
     
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  17. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    That may or may not have been me, mentioning it in a larger post of potential Scottish Commuter routes (which, as it was when I joined the forums, very under-detailed, how far I have come), and I mentioned Cathcart.

    I still can't find anything else for it.

    But I think it was mostly a case of 'well, Scotland is well requested, let's try and get ourselves a nice starting point', as I say above.
     
  18. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    There was no backstory
    Yes there were calls for "a scottish route", but a minor suburban loop with one (maybe two) assets running on it EVER? (OK they shoehorned in a charter service but still). Don't think I remember ever seeing such as suggestion

    BML:
    • fairly local to them (They're in North Kent so Brighton's about an hour's drive if you're lucky, two if you're not)
    • it sold loads of copies on the TS1 system
    • it has limited locos and EMUs running on it if you don't include the urban London lines, half of Clapham, the 700s, GWR or the Gatwick to Reading services (all of which are NOT included)
    They could just have easily have done cross city Birmingham, Bristol, Cardiff or Carlisle, but they didn't, and I would imagine a lot of that is that they already have an Electrostar and a Networker good to go...
    Maybe I'm just too cynical
     
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  19. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you are indeed being a little bit too cynical, but at the same time, there is indeed a pretty big problem I feel where DTG really doesn't listen to the community as well as they say they do in my opinion.
    If they did, I wouldn't have had to create my thread earlier today, petitioning for more focus abroad. Whether you agree with that or not, had DTG given more consideration to more of their fanbase, we wouldn't have been in a situation where such topics are important.

    That being said though, as interesting as I think the topic is of if DTG is listening, and how we can get them to listen more, we're straying far from the topic of how to create good suggestions here :)
     
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  20. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Whilst "listening to the community" and "doing what the community says" are two different things I agree with them somewhat when it comes to "building ecosystems where railroads exist". As an example if they built Japan that would mean "from the ground up" including the ground, buildings, trees (and other plants) people, trains, train stations...
    So that's two years work for who knows what return

    My thoughts on it would be to find a local studio to do the asset work and then have DTG do the placement on the route and the timetable. That way you avoid the "it doesn't look right, maybe DTG couldn't get there (COVID COVID COVID)" brigade
    And you avoid the issue we have now where you've got third party routes NOT being updated because the third party can't be bothered (or have the skill set) to do so
     
  21. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Japan is a decent example, as Union Workshop (who made Japanese content on TS1) are said to be looking at entering the TSW market - as shown on a social media page, where they describe themselves as a "Train Simulator / Train Sim World Developer".

    So Japan could see content at some point.

    But anyway, let's turn back to the topic of the thread. That goes for the pair of you. We're all in this community together.
     
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  22. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I think the work put into suggestions says something about how badly you want something.

    But hey, if I see a topic with a simple "I want route X with train Y", I'm just like "I have no clue where that is, or how it looks like, and if you can't be bothered providing a bit more info and a few pictures, I'm not gonna bother with this topic and hop onto the next topic which hopefully is considerably more informative and interesting".
     
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  23. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Yes, please add:
    "Don't suggest the Channel Tunnel. Again."

    xD
     
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  24. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

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    Or as Professor Matt said so wisely: "It's really not the route you think it is"
     
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  25. Rybnicki

    Rybnicki Well-Known Member

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    All good points for sure, and I understand it's a better forum post, let alone suggestion, if it's fuller. Let me put it this way though - for me, there are several routes in 3 countries I'd love to see. However, none of those countries has ever been featured in a commercially released train simulator, nor are they likely to. So, if I say "I'd love to see part of the Dalmatian Coast line", or if I make a 750 word post, explaining the scenery, the different stations, the need to stop to a halt at every level crossing because they are unguarded, talking through the RegioSwinger - either way, my chances of seeing this route are almost certainly the same.

    In that case, then, the suggestion forum is for me as much about talking about routes we enjoy irl, with others who also do, so the longer suggestions are ok but have a tendency to mean we read short essays on every London Underground deep level line in order, so not vital for me.
     
  26. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

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    I get what you're saying, but I definitely do think greater suggestions improve your chances a lot.

    To elaborate, I'm Dutch, and I would love a Dutch route more than anything, and in fact on multiple occasion have DTG staff on stream named the Netherlands as in that they are at least to some degree aware of the demand.
    That's also partially because we, the Dutch community, as particularly active on forums, even if a lot of our fellow railfans don't really touch TSW as it has nothing Dutch to offer and right now it's not looking all too good for foreign routes.
    However, DTG is aware of us, which is already one great thing, and part of why that is is that we're so active and our suggestions are often times really elaborate and impassioned.
    This makes it so that IF DTG actually starts making new routes, even if there's other contenders, we're far likelier to be chosen.

    I'd implore you to take a look at jolojonasgames 's map of Dutch, German, Swiss and Austrian suggestions.
    Look at some of the Dutch suggestions and I can pretty much guarantee you that if all of those suggestions had been some quiet little "please make <route>" DTG would've never even mentioned the demand from here. And the same can be for your countries too.
     
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  27. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree about the issues with the almost monopoly-like domination of the game by the UK, USA and Germany.

    I'd Personally love to see the Netherlands, Scandinavia and more of France added in the future.

    Whilst they may have licensing issues, they would be great to see.

    However, despite this, I think that Regardless of the quality of suggestion, DTG may not be changed by that alone.

    But better suggestions have a better chance of rallying support.

    The more support, and DTG may just have a business case.

    And again, as I say, this is a rough outline of what should be in a suggestion for it to be good.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Also; More Generally, I will be reviewing what I want to add to this.
    Loco Suggestions are Guaranteed to come to this guide, Feature Suggestions and Misc. Are in consideration.

    Thanks for the patience and feedback, everyone!
     
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  28. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Another thing that people CAN do is what I like to do. Someone puts up a short "I'd like" and then someone else (or a few elses) comes along and fills out some of the detail. There was a recent Charing X post where three responders added in route details, assets etc
     
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  29. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    I am aware of that post, and I do agree that when there is a lack of details it's good for people to add them in - I'll edit that one in :)
     
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  30. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I think that's why it's important to write your suggestions the same way you'd write a press release - get a hook in the opening paragraph and include a great photo. If the suggestion intro gets people's attention, they'll read on, if not, their latest London Underground thesis will probably go unread!
     
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  31. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Little update whilst I have it in my mind;
    The Loco Suggestions part will be added at the Weekend.
    If I can get enough time i'll also set out the future sections of the suggestion.

    Suggestions* are welcome.
    *Not because this is a suggestions thread or anything.
     
  32. kenobi#1878

    kenobi#1878 Well-Known Member

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    Or as I do occasionally, link a Wikipedia page. At least then you can save time when making the post
     
  33. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    UPDATE: Loco Suggestions have now been added. Took far less than I thought.
     

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