Br 187

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by PeterNeutron, Oct 14, 2021.

  1. PeterNeutron

    PeterNeutron Active Member

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    Sounds are horrible, taken from 146/185 and completely wrong!
    PZB/SIFA sounds as well
    Switches for PZB/SIFA in the engine room operate wrong way...the symbol shows SIfa off on the panel but the switch works reversed????? Really???
    Displays are mix of Traxx2 and Traxx3 with the main brake pressure line permanently at 6 bar. Sorry why????? It ist completely wrong and of how this indication works here!
    PZB flashing symbols don't work and will stay lit white...wow
    There is no sound for the Power/Braking lever becoming neutral again! Impressive especially considering the redicolous high seating position.

    Just to name a few after exactly 5 min...
    And any more time in this loco is frustrating because of the horrible noise!

    Sorry but this is by no means a BR 187 loco AddOn which deserves the name.
     
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  2. facundo.dim

    facundo.dim Active Member

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    -Throttle power too, no matter if you are at 10%, 20%, 50%, etc. It's always full power causing an extreme wheelslip.

    -Using SHIFT + Enter to activate Sifa, deactivates LZB. If you press again, activates LZB and deactivate Sifa.

    -LZB Ende alert doesn't recognize PZB release key, so the train makes an emergency stop.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
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  3. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    Throttle power is an AFB specific problem. If you acitvate AFB, it doesnt care of the throttle lever, it just applies full power
     
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  4. Ben132465798

    Ben132465798 Well-Known Member

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    Add the power-indicators and those other problems here







    There are timestamps
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
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  5. Ravi

    Ravi Well-Known Member

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    The LZB doesn’t indicate the next speed limit too. It’s a right mess. Sam said TSG was going to push a patch soon to fix the LZB in the stream today. I will give it a couple days and then check. I am so disappointed after the great job they did with BR 101.
     
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  6. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Skyhook, not TSG. You‘re mixing up 2 3rd parties here. TSG had nothing to do with the 187 and Skyhook had nothing to do with the 101.
     
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  7. xi haoyu china

    xi haoyu china Active Member

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  8. xi haoyu china

    xi haoyu china Active Member

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    Just sound, not very important?? Fake. All true not, because the train has sound that no but real is so they need corect it
     
  9. Matto140

    Matto140 Well-Known Member

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    Can someone confirm where "Banking Com" button is? I plan some heavy MSB action. Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
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  10. xi haoyu china

    xi haoyu china Active Member

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    I dont no. I think above or side
     
  11. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    The BR143 has a traction force setting, so you can reduce tractive force applied. Does the Br187 have such a thing? For the BR143 use the R and F key, the BR155 has it as well, but I forgot which keys to use, probably R and F.
     
  12. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Well, it should work with the throttle lever... which it doesn't. The throttle lever is supposed to be the tractive force selector for it.
     
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  13. kevin.charb81

    kevin.charb81 Well-Known Member

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    You mean MSB- what you’re referring to is happening on Tyneside.
     
  14. Ravi

    Ravi Well-Known Member

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    Oh. Really?? That explains it. I feel so dumb. I thought TSG stood for The Skyhook Games.
     
  15. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    No need to feel dumb. For future reference:
    SHG = Skyhook Games
    TSG = Train Sim Germany (represented on the forums by Maik Goltz)
     
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  16. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    We are talking about two epochally different generations of locomotive, and I kind of doubt if modern thyristor-controlled locos require a separate tractive-force lever like the old transformer-tap engines like the 143 and 155.
     
  17. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Many, if not all, of the operational questions raised in this thread could have been avoided had DTG bothered to provide a users' manual for this DLC engine. I propose that the price of any DLC published without a manual should be discounted at least 15%.
     
  18. joerg.kuenscher

    joerg.kuenscher Well-Known Member

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    Hello all,
    were the lights of the BR187 corrected with the last update?
     
  19. sequencer2k16

    sequencer2k16 Well-Known Member

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    The seating position was corrected months ago, and that was it.
     
  20. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    That's a shame, even with the current 60% discount I just don't feel the experience will be worth the money.
     
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  21. sequencer2k16

    sequencer2k16 Well-Known Member

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    For your interest, here are the patch notes from 3rd November 2021, that's all we've got so far.
    It's been almost a year since Skyhook ripped us off and honestly I have little hope for the loco with such a bug fix mentality.
    Even heavily modded, the 187 is still unusable today. At most as an AI loco to increase the variety of rolling stock.

    However, I have to admit that the body of the 187 is well done, with a few exceptions.
     
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  22. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    I will illustrate an example to help Ravi appreciate the "small" differences between the two developers:
    SHG:
    IMG_20220622_162121.jpg
    TSG:
    IMG_20220622_162507.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2022
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  23. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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  24. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    For me, the 187 still is expensive AI stock. Everytime I get loaded in one during journey (MSB) I reload to shuffle.

    I'm not angry about the lack of update from Skyhook anymore, its more like a disappointment because it seems to be abandoned even though one Skyhook offical posted they are working on something but HSC first ...
     
  25. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    Its not abandoned. Skyhook is working on a fix.
     
  26. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Its no where near as bad as people make out IMO. I enjoy driving it on MSB, its just an absolute shame that the safety systems prevent you running it on SKA which is the route its intended for.

    Adam stated that the fix for the safety systems is complete subject to final testing and a release slot being found. For those who know the RL loco well then sadly it appears that the sounds will still be wrong, but Im guessing 90% of UK & US customers have never heard one.

    Has it dragged on too long? Yes
    Is it completely unplayable in its current state? No
    Does it deserve such bad reviews? Not a chance.
     
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  27. colinL

    colinL Well-Known Member

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    It does... It does. I just hate the whole culture in Train Sim World, be it SHG or DTG that so much stuff gets released with the most obvious bugs that are being flood-reported in the forums here 10 minutes after the release. And they KNOW about them. But then we, the community, are the people chasing after any officials or any oh so little chance to get it fixed. And what happens? In many, not all, cases you get a reply a la "we are looking into it". Months go by without anything happening, then finally if the odds are on our side a bugfix gets out or if they aren't: simply nothing happens. And this is so exhausting and sickening. And I don't intend this to bash Skyhook or DTG, but this is simply the state in which it is which seems to be the normality. Ok, rant over.
    Is the loco unplayable? Definitely not, I also enjoy driving it from time to time and luckily I'm on PC so with the soundmod that came out its actually quite.. enjoyable. I did abandon it though, for the moment as I simply got tired of not being able to use it on lines with LZB and I also kinda got annoyed about the flashing PZB indicator staying white and not being able to use AFB. But, as mentioned before it seems that the fixes are done(?) and its just waiting for a release slot. (Something I also don't completely understand as to why basically pretty important stuff like this isn't simply implemented with the nearest possible update, but ok. Seems to be some DTG kinda thing.)
    Regarding the sound I am kinda confused, I'm fairly certain that Skyhook-Sean did mention somewhere here in the forums that they are also working on the sounds to get them better and simultaneously the guy who made the soundmod (I think iRFlouz is his forum name) also mentioned somewhere here that he basically got contacted by skyhook. Maybe I'm talking bs but I'm quite sure there was something along those lines happening. Whats with that? It got extremely quiet about that. And regarding the sound: it was a freaking joke to release the loco with that sound. Because at the release time and also some weeks if not months (I think definitely months) before that dreaded sound was actually fixed by DTG with the release of Dresden-Riesa. And what did skyhook do? right, release it with the sound that was barely endurable when you're wearing headphones. If all the other not working features wouldn't have been enough before, the sound definitely should've been the one thing to make someone somewhere say "Let's just not release this just yet". But we all know how it went. That's why I am a 100% behind the fact that Skyhook should be ashamed and that this DLC deserves every single bad review it has. Of course there's still a lot of work gone into the loco visually and all that and said work is really good. But with the other stuff happening you simply don't see it.

    I'm really intrigued if we ever see this bugfix (which I am kinda sure about it) but if it also fixes really everything that was wrong with the loco (or the safety systems furthermore). I'm not expecting a soundfix by this point but I kinda stopped caring about it altogether as the soundmod does it for me.
    Sorry for this extremely long message - rant over
     
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  28. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Its a premium priced product in an “authentic simulation”.

    It is miles away from authentic, the only thing that it has in common with the IRL 187 is that it looks like one and is on rails.

    The cherry on top is that whilst it may not of been possible to get it close to a faithful recreation, there were improvements in place for the rolling stock it was modelled on, and Skyhook chose to use the older, broken version of the 185, even remove working features from that model, and stick a 187 body shell on top of it.

    It absolutely deserves its reviews, developers should not be allowed to publish such work without consequence.
     
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  29. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    £11.99 is a premium priced product? Don't get into Flight Sims if you think £11.99 is a premium price
     
  30. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Who’s talking about flight sim?
     
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  31. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    It's a comparison mate, both Sims.. But let's stick to train Sims then, if you think £11.99 is a premium price you should check out some TSC classic loco DLCs in the Pro range which can be double what TSW2 loco DLCs cost. I'd class £20 - £25 as a premium price not £11.99.
     
  32. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    12 pounds is a bargain. Really guys, you should read about production costs of virtual models. Also, a model railway train doesnt come for 12 pounds, so I dont get why expectations are always too high.

    Also, regarding the post from Colin: You seem to really dislike how DTG and SHG work and still you are here and repeat your point of view again and again. Why are you bothering with wasting your time with repeating your opinion all over again when in your view nothing is going to change? It gets boring to read the same moaning all over again ever 2 days. Move on, we all know that TSW has flaws and if you really dislike it and have no hope that things will change, I really recommend to change places to a sim that suits your needs ;)
     
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  33. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I certainly don't think £12 is expensive but you would still expect things to work on it as they should and in the same way they do on other items of DLC for the price.

    I am usually a glass half full person but there are a lot of threads on here where trains and routes are released and fixes don't arrive or are very slow. It goes back to TSC as well not just TSW. I don't have this DLC, it has been on my steam wishlist since release but I won't purchase it unless it gets fixed. Same with WCL, whilst the class 150 physics are so incorrect it won't be purchased. DTG do tend to eventually fix their bugs even if it take aeons, but DTG and third parties often seem incapable of actually communicating what is happening, which then gets users irritable which I can understand.

    I don't think anyone expects perfection, I certainly don't, but if a loco can't be driven properly or realistically because the safety systems aren't working properly, surely that is a valid area of complaint?
     
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  34. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Is my expectation too high though?

    I lowered my expectation when it was made clear that the 187 would not sound accurate, that was fine, the 185 had gotten a decent patch, so those sounds are acceptable in the meantime.

    Skyhook stopped a few miles short of that though didn’t they? No working safety systems & a botched sound file. lovely stuff.

    I suppose maybe if my expectations were, it’s red and has a throttle, I’d of been ok.

    Alright let’s play that game then?

    Compare the 187 to the 101.

    Compare the 187 to the 165.

    Compare the 187 to the G6.

    Compare the 187 to any other content in TSW and tell me that it is a justified price.

    I don’t think it’s my expectations that are the issue here, for what you get with the 187, compared to any other content in TSW, it is a premium price.

    In any case I don’t think I need to say anymore on the matter, the reviews speak for themselves, and unfortunately for Skyhook, it’s taking so long to release fixes for the 187, that it’s unlikely to improve the review score much once they do release patches.
     
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  35. colinL

    colinL Well-Known Member

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    Well, like I mentioned before my intention is to state whats been happening, at least from my point of view. I still like TSW2 and play it a lot and for me its nowhere near an unplayable game itself. I just stated that I don't like the general politics regarding bugfixes in the game and especially with what happened with the 187. Just two days I ago I purchased the Expansion pack which I frowned upon but I have to say I really really enjoy the new services on SKA and think it actually ressurected SKA back into life. I also don't regret my money spent. But you know how it is, the negative voices are always the loudest. And yes, mostly I've been moaning on the forums. Of course, because I come here when I encounter issues, when everythings going fine I am too busy enjoying the game. And I never meant to say in my view nothing is going to change. I merely mentioned that it has kinda established itself how things are going and simply that its not the - lets say ideal- way.
    So - believe me I am enjoying the game and having fun with it. Maybe I'm just a little bitter that the 187 has been a mess so far because I was looking so much forward to it in the buildup to the release last year, and still I'd love to be able to actually enjoy it. I'll give you that :)
     
  36. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Who knew asking for an authentic product as advertised can't be considered premium when the DB BR 101, Class 465 and the G6 are highly regarded as one of the best trains in the game that sell at the exact same price. The more you know I guess.
     
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  37. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    I'd consider the 101 and G6 a complete bargain and personally Id say these should be priced in the £20-£25 range. I'm fairly sure I saw a post from TSG stating that commercially the amount of work which went into the G6 wasn't viable for the price point DTG insists. And there we have the crux of the matter.
     
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  38. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    DTG should review their closed pricing policy because I think the standard price of a locomotive dlc is too low to make a profit if you have invested many hours in developing it, like for example the G6.
    This policy will only scare away talented developers because it doesn't seem to be a very profitable business per hour of work invested.
    We can no longer rely on professionals like Maik to do an incredible job in exchange for a handout, It's not fair, talent and effort should be rewarded accordingly. This way we will only get BR 204 or BR 187 style mediocrity.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2022
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  39. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It's worth pointing out that Skyhook's latest effort, Horseshoe, is pretty good and included a pretty decent ES44 (better in some ways than DTG's AC4400 or SD70).
     
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