Horseshoe Curve - Definitive Feedback Thread

I still demanding physics improvement over HSC GEVOS. My muscle memory already adapted to SMH SD70ACe physic.

 

Thanks for the explanation guys, that makes sense that it’s because of the extremely long train

 

Where is the GEVOS, I have all the DLC for the TWS2, and I can not find it, is it like a mod, that can only be added to the game separately

 

GEVO, which is a nickname for the ES44, which is part of GE Evolution series of locomotives.

 

Well it should be call the way it is called in the game, that would avoid any confusion and frustration

 

Thats not a community name. Go look some youtube videos.

 

Just be glad we aren't calling them Bonga's.

 

Is that an actual nickname for them? Why?

 

I honestly don't know where the "Bonga" term came from for the GEVO's, unlike something like "toasters", which was given to most modern GE locos due to their frequency to catching on fire and burning themselves. (Unlike the AEM-7's which were called "toasters" for their visual looks)

 

What you guys are writing doesn't encourage me to buy this add-on so far
Although I like the atmosphere of American freight trains, especially Norfiolk Southern trains.

It seems that the producers have repeated the faults and bugs that spoiled the fun in SPG and other add-ons. For me, it's the interactive part that's important, the experience of driving the train, following the procedures... stuff like that.

It's damn hard to get a good idea of the quality of a product before buying it.
We are buying a damn pig in a poke

But this time I don't want to risk another disappointment. I've been bitterly disappointed too many times. Maybe I'll wait for the "unofficial demo version" and see for myself what and how badly they screwed up this time and if it's worth paying.

 

Theres unofficial demo versions of TSW DLC? Sounds an awful like software piracy.

 

Indeed.

The only legitimate method is to buy then if you don’t like within two hours refund on Steam. However even that is not infallible, do it too often and you will get a “friendly” warning from Steam that the refund system is not there to buy goods on approval and if they deem you are abusing the system can withdraw the option from your account.

 

I’ve held off a bit lately as I’ve bought a few dlc and refunded so wanted to be more considered in my approach. I do not condone any unofficial DTG demo routes , or ripped copies as they’re known to me

 

the fact that J.T. thinks its a good idea to come on a software publisher own forums and suggest using illegal versions of the game blows my mind.

Its like me nicking your car and then ringing up to let you know.

 

I think @j.t "unofficial demo mode" is the refunding policy of steam, since technically every product there can be tried out that way.

But I agree, should have taken the time to explain instead of leaving the statement up for interpretation;-)

 

You dont need to wait for that?

Which makes me think that isnt what he is referring to personally.

 

Actually...you are right and I overread that whole waiting-part...

Back to Horseshoe I suggest!

 

Unfortunately, with two hours of gameplay I have no chance to detect all the major bugs and flaws in the game that would spoil the fun. After all, it takes an hour and a half to drive one way from Cumberland to Rockwood. And that's just half of the first of three routes and one of six trains to check out!

Simulators are not adventure games that you go through once or twice and then you put it back on the shelf. Even taking each of the implemented routes multiple times doesn't reduce the value of the product.

And let's be honest, DTG has a very bad reputation when it comes to the quality of their products. Most of the products I've bought from them I'm deeply disappointed with and consider a waste of money. Unofficial demos help you find a gem in a sea of LOVE. I'm really sick of buying pig in a poke. I've been scammed too many times.

[Removed - Benjamin - advocating unofficial demos] - We host preview streams across our channels to provide players some insight into what an add-on may entail, and trust that reviews from the community will provide players with additional context before they invest time and money into our games. If you are unhappy you can report issues directly to us or request a refund via the store you purchased from i.e. Steam. However, Dovetail Games have no control over the terms and conditions that apply to refunds.



Now that I've explained myself, maybe, indeed, let's go back to the topic of "Horseshoe Curve ". Maybe I'll learn something that will change my initial opinion to this add-on

 

A "Unofficial demo" IS piracy and is theft. You are aiding those who steal and profit from piracy, which increases the cost of software AND reduces investment.

On one hand you complain about the lack of quality and high prices but then are involved in one of the key reasons why prices are high and quality low.

Theres no words I can describe you which wouldnt see me censored.

 

Very very bizarre justification for stealing. I do hope DTG can unofficially explore your dovetail live account to see what they would like you to pay for

 

I respect your opinion, but if you look at it that way, then selling incomplete and defective products is also thievery.

Thank you. I am ready for such scrutiny and do not fear it.

It's just a pity that such an inspection of the fulfillment of obligations doesn't work the other way round. It would be good if someone checked whether the customer always got what he was promised and whether the reported defects were removed by the producer within a reasonable time.

P.S.
It also seems to me that colleagues have missed the fact that I'd use the unofficial demo version with the intention of buying the full version. Of course, if the product turns out to be playable.

 

No, it isn’t. There’s nothing to stop you from reading reviews and watching videos/streams to see what the product is like. I have not played a single second of HSC and still know pretty well what state it’s in just from reading the forums and watching the first preview.

 

Ok, changing the subject here. Why are the scenario builder consist markers far too short to accept any freight trains on a freight route?
I fancied running the AC44 on HSC - er nope

 

Yes officer, I know I havent purchased this car and it is indeed stolen, but Ive every intention of buying one just like this as long as I am happy with this one.

Cant see the judge thinking Im innocent somehow.

 

Well to be honest how many players are gonna buy the payware version after they think the "piratebay demo" is worth the money.

Never seen a thief starting to complain to the owners about the products quality of the things he stole before...

This franchais needs backers, if you cant afford the dlcs go for a sale. If you still cant afford it find somebody to gift the dlcs to you. If there is nobody, go walk with your dog or water the plants...

 

You don't understand. I'm not complaining about high prices. I'm happy to pay a fair price for a game or add-on. I'm just tired of situations where in return for my money I get a defective and often unplayable product. I'm tired of buying something and then finding out that it's of such poor quality that I don't actually want to use it; or even can't.

I can either stop buying the games completely, in which case the developer will never get any money from me. Or I can try looking for demos to find those products that are worth the price, and then the producer will get as much money from me as they demand for that product.

Yes, most gamers who play pirated copies will probably never buy the original. But I do. And DTG has made money twice because of it.

 

2 whole DLC purchased out of 54, they will be so thankful and grateful to you for actually paying for 2 DLC youve played. Your family must be so proud.

And stop calling them "demos" they are ripped off pirated software.

 

I got your point.

The thing with tsw is, its a good sim and a good game to the same time.
We never will get 100% recreated locos in technical and physical detail.
Dtg is on a good way in my opinion overall, sometimes more sometimes less. Rivet is doing better, even if there old addons still need fixing.

Skyhook is on the top side when it comes to routes, but unfortunately they struggle with rolling stock, and show the community activley that they dont care about updates.

Even if i regret buying few of the dlcs, overall i like giving every dev a chance with my money.

 

I'm not interested in 54 DLCs. Not even for free. I don't use them. I use two of them.
And if paying for those two DLCs I use doesn't matter to the publisher, then what's all the hysteria about?

I am not demanding a 100% perfect product
I just want to see if I'll have some fun with it.
Because, unfortunately, many times I was bitterly disappointed and wasted quite a lot of money

 

This is exactly how it works. The game is worth it to you as it is, or it isn't. Maybe it's not worth full price but worth a sale price. Maybe it's too buggy to buy now but will be worth buying after fixes. This also applies to every game published by everybody.

For research, there is plenty of commentary on the forums about the positives and negatives of the game and every single DLC.

In the end, you may be happy or disappointed; that's the risk. DTG also takes a risk when spending lots of money on the development of a route that people will like it enough to make the money back. That's life.

Calling a pirated copy a demo is dishonest. Spinning piracy as a consequence rather than a hostile act is also dishonest. You're not going to sell anyone on your deep-down virtuousness this way.

The base game was recently on sale for a whopping $5, as it has been before and will be again. Risk a fiver and try it out, why don't you? It will guaranteed give you a better experience than the Big Mac you could otherwise get.

 

This is a really interesting discussion because the European Commission found that, unlike sales of films, music, and books, sales of video games actually benefit from piracy. Most of the people who pirate games were never intending to buy it in the first place, either because they are too cheap or they simply do not have the money (for example, children without their own methods of payment). For those people, it is hard to consider a sale "lost" because they never intended to buy in the first place.

However, if some of those pirates that have the means to buy the game find that they like it, they may be compelled to purchase the game legitimately for reasons beyond altruism. Pirated games are a buggy mess to deal with because modern games receive frequent patches and benefit from cloud saves, both of which are unavailable or tedious to maintain for pirates. If a game is genuinely enjoyable, it seems reasonable to spend the money in a sale to receive the benefit of automatic updates, cloud saves, and bonus content.

As a sidenote on this discussion of "unofficial demos," I sure do miss official demos. I think companies really underestimate the amount that demos boost sales simply because it is not an immediate ROI on their spreadsheets, which is a shame for everyone.

Cheers

 

Thank you for your comment Callum B.!

It's worth noting that some game developers make official demos available to potential customers and treat this as a promotion of their product rather than a threat to their profits. Maybe they don't need to hide their flaws from customers?

I imagine that a demo version of the "Horseshoe Curve DLC," containing, say, one timetable course for each locomotive (one during the day and one at night), would greatly help me decide whether to buy the full version of the product. It would answer the vast majority of questions that I didn't get answers to either on the forum or the promo videos.

 

Exactly. I just want software with basic functions that work correctly.

So: I requested (and received) a refund from Sony for Horseshoe Curve and I suggest others who are finding major flaws also do so. This *might* get DTG's attention.

For me, it was the software refusing to SAVE GAME. That was/is a hard stop and I can't believe it's been an issue for DTG (at least on other platforms) seemingly in perpetuity.

TS2 still has other "typical" glitches that I'm now used to... like crashing or sound dropping when changing camera views, video stuttering when there are several services loaded, perpetual stop signals... The point is, releasing games that are broken on the most elementary level and that don't appear to have been minimally play-tested is a shoddy practice by a company.

I used to work for a software company and I would be embarrassed, and frankly worried, to read these threads. DTG seems to be rushing product to sale just for the short-term revenue, and doesn't give a whit about reputation or repeat business--perhaps since they have no competition for a Train Sim in the console business.

 

Well that just confirms the flawed logic in using a pirated (I refuse to call them "unofficial demos") version as a basis to make in informed decision on whether to the buy the DLC or not.

Like I said J.T. is just a common criminal who is part of the reason why the rest of us have to pay the price we do for content.

 

For those that own this route, what is the best thing you've experienced or seen on it thus far?

 

For those that use LD the extra functionality available on both the ES44AC and GP38-2 models is very much welcomed IMO.

 

Being able to run no HUD with a working distance counter.
Watching multiple trains on the curve with no real loss in performance which considering even the longest train can be in complete view in extra impressive. I don't know how Skyhook have managed it when you consider London Commuter gets frame drops with 2 or 3 12 car services in view at the same time.

 

The traffic pattern is dense and I am also enjoying the GP38-2 more than I expected. It has good sounds, a great horn, and handles well. There are some good service runs, 66T is my favorite so far. Also, the South Fork Branch line is a nice bonus. The scenery is very good. My big wish right now is to get an SD70 running here.

 

How distance counter works?

 

Are there issues with the airbrake physics on HSC or do you mean the traction/dynamic brake physics of the ES44AC?

 

My issues with this route so far:

1. The route is extremely bright and washed out. The Es44 and GP38 look good, when on Sandpatch, but look like something from TSW 2020 on HSC, unfortunately.

2. Most freights are very short, having 25-30 vehicles on average; when they should have more like 40 cars plus engines; like on Sherman Hill. This really makes trains on HSC seem unrealistic and very overpowered.

3. No playable helper services.

 

Eh? I've got 2 services 44 cars, a couple at 66 and the rest are in the 70s and or even 80s.

 

Probably he didnt notice that last gen consoles are limited to 40.

 

I’m sad to read that the defective dynamic brake behaviour from SPG’s AC units has been reproduced in HSC’s loco. I know players can struggle through services with it behaving as it does but it’s never been a rewarding experience in SPG driving with such an important control on a loco being so badly simulated and that’s going to be the same here. No chance of either being fixed, I just hope it never appears in any future locos.

 

The air brakes are fine I'd say. They've adopted the fully pumped trains from a recent SMH update. The freight cars use this new braking system, so all is fine there. But the ES44 uses faulty dynamic brakes from AC4400 and you just can't regulate well with it. Notches 1-2 make crazy jumps in braking effort and after that, it's all chaos. It's like trying to cut onions finely with a blunt axe.

 

The minimum reduction is too much.

 

Agreed on all points. The faulty dynamic brakes were the main thing convincing me to either pass on HSC or at least wait for a big discount.

 

Plus: HPPT overkill in some services makes things even more unrealistic in terms of dynamic braking. Sure, we can turn some powers off, we can try at last - control switch is not simulated but only animated. The solution is stop locos engines and dead-trail them (dead in tow?) in the name of SIMULATION & PLAYABILITY. BR o7

PS Heavy trains with HPPT ratio below 2 are still fun to drive downhill EB but this feels somehow real bad, still.

So, this is the answer? I am sad.

 

In the ES44AC, the minimum is 7 to 8 pounds and seems to behave properly for me, allowing me a shot at blending air with that loco’s touchy dynamics.

In the GP38-2, the minimum is 10 pounds, but it doesn’t seem as strong as the 10 pounds on the SPG locos and typically won’t bring a train to a halt on a steep grade. This allows for blending with the dynamics which seem to behave better than those in the ES44 for me.

I am quite enjoying the 38-2 and wish it had more services. I would really love to get the SMH SD70 running timetable services on this route! I would also really love to get the 70 back on the SPG timetable, but that’s another story ….