Horseshoe Curve - Definitive Feedback Thread

Ok, changing the subject here. Why are the scenario builder consist markers far too short to accept any freight trains on a freight route?
I fancied running the AC44 on HSC - er nope

 

Well to be honest how many players are gonna buy the payware version after they think the "piratebay demo" is worth the money.

Never seen a thief starting to complain to the owners about the products quality of the things he stole before...

This franchais needs backers, if you cant afford the dlcs go for a sale. If you still cant afford it find somebody to gift the dlcs to you. If there is nobody, go walk with your dog or water the plants...

 

You don't understand. I'm not complaining about high prices. I'm happy to pay a fair price for a game or add-on. I'm just tired of situations where in return for my money I get a defective and often unplayable product. I'm tired of buying something and then finding out that it's of such poor quality that I don't actually want to use it; or even can't.

I can either stop buying the games completely, in which case the developer will never get any money from me. Or I can try looking for demos to find those products that are worth the price, and then the producer will get as much money from me as they demand for that product.

Yes, most gamers who play pirated copies will probably never buy the original. But I do. And DTG has made money twice because of it.

 

I got your point.

The thing with tsw is, its a good sim and a good game to the same time.
We never will get 100% recreated locos in technical and physical detail.
Dtg is on a good way in my opinion overall, sometimes more sometimes less. Rivet is doing better, even if there old addons still need fixing.

Skyhook is on the top side when it comes to routes, but unfortunately they struggle with rolling stock, and show the community activley that they dont care about updates.

Even if i regret buying few of the dlcs, overall i like giving every dev a chance with my money.

 

I'm not interested in 54 DLCs. Not even for free. I don't use them. I use two of them.
And if paying for those two DLCs I use doesn't matter to the publisher, then what's all the hysteria about?

I am not demanding a 100% perfect product
I just want to see if I'll have some fun with it.
Because, unfortunately, many times I was bitterly disappointed and wasted quite a lot of money

 

This is exactly how it works. The game is worth it to you as it is, or it isn't. Maybe it's not worth full price but worth a sale price. Maybe it's too buggy to buy now but will be worth buying after fixes. This also applies to every game published by everybody.

For research, there is plenty of commentary on the forums about the positives and negatives of the game and every single DLC.

In the end, you may be happy or disappointed; that's the risk. DTG also takes a risk when spending lots of money on the development of a route that people will like it enough to make the money back. That's life.

Calling a pirated copy a demo is dishonest. Spinning piracy as a consequence rather than a hostile act is also dishonest. You're not going to sell anyone on your deep-down virtuousness this way.

The base game was recently on sale for a whopping $5, as it has been before and will be again. Risk a fiver and try it out, why don't you? It will guaranteed give you a better experience than the Big Mac you could otherwise get.

 

This is a really interesting discussion because the European Commission found that, unlike sales of films, music, and books, sales of video games actually benefit from piracy. Most of the people who pirate games were never intending to buy it in the first place, either because they are too cheap or they simply do not have the money (for example, children without their own methods of payment). For those people, it is hard to consider a sale "lost" because they never intended to buy in the first place.

However, if some of those pirates that have the means to buy the game find that they like it, they may be compelled to purchase the game legitimately for reasons beyond altruism. Pirated games are a buggy mess to deal with because modern games receive frequent patches and benefit from cloud saves, both of which are unavailable or tedious to maintain for pirates. If a game is genuinely enjoyable, it seems reasonable to spend the money in a sale to receive the benefit of automatic updates, cloud saves, and bonus content.

As a sidenote on this discussion of "unofficial demos," I sure do miss official demos. I think companies really underestimate the amount that demos boost sales simply because it is not an immediate ROI on their spreadsheets, which is a shame for everyone.

Cheers

 

Thank you for your comment Callum B.!

It's worth noting that some game developers make official demos available to potential customers and treat this as a promotion of their product rather than a threat to their profits. Maybe they don't need to hide their flaws from customers?

I imagine that a demo version of the "Horseshoe Curve DLC," containing, say, one timetable course for each locomotive (one during the day and one at night), would greatly help me decide whether to buy the full version of the product. It would answer the vast majority of questions that I didn't get answers to either on the forum or the promo videos.

 

Exactly. I just want software with basic functions that work correctly.

So: I requested (and received) a refund from Sony for Horseshoe Curve and I suggest others who are finding major flaws also do so. This *might* get DTG's attention.

For me, it was the software refusing to SAVE GAME. That was/is a hard stop and I can't believe it's been an issue for DTG (at least on other platforms) seemingly in perpetuity.

TS2 still has other "typical" glitches that I'm now used to... like crashing or sound dropping when changing camera views, video stuttering when there are several services loaded, perpetual stop signals... The point is, releasing games that are broken on the most elementary level and that don't appear to have been minimally play-tested is a shoddy practice by a company.

I used to work for a software company and I would be embarrassed, and frankly worried, to read these threads. DTG seems to be rushing product to sale just for the short-term revenue, and doesn't give a whit about reputation or repeat business--perhaps since they have no competition for a Train Sim in the console business.

 

For those that own this route, what is the best thing you've experienced or seen on it thus far?

 

For those that use LD the extra functionality available on both the ES44AC and GP38-2 models is very much welcomed IMO.

 

The traffic pattern is dense and I am also enjoying the GP38-2 more than I expected. It has good sounds, a great horn, and handles well. There are some good service runs, 66T is my favorite so far. Also, the South Fork Branch line is a nice bonus. The scenery is very good. My big wish right now is to get an SD70 running here.

 

How distance counter works?

 

Are there issues with the airbrake physics on HSC or do you mean the traction/dynamic brake physics of the ES44AC?

 

My issues with this route so far:

1. The route is extremely bright and washed out. The Es44 and GP38 look good, when on Sandpatch, but look like something from TSW 2020 on HSC, unfortunately.

2. Most freights are very short, having 25-30 vehicles on average; when they should have more like 40 cars plus engines; like on Sherman Hill. This really makes trains on HSC seem unrealistic and very overpowered.

3. No playable helper services.

 

Probably he didnt notice that last gen consoles are limited to 40.

 

I’m sad to read that the defective dynamic brake behaviour from SPG’s AC units has been reproduced in HSC’s loco. I know players can struggle through services with it behaving as it does but it’s never been a rewarding experience in SPG driving with such an important control on a loco being so badly simulated and that’s going to be the same here. No chance of either being fixed, I just hope it never appears in any future locos.

 

The air brakes are fine I'd say. They've adopted the fully pumped trains from a recent SMH update. The freight cars use this new braking system, so all is fine there. But the ES44 uses faulty dynamic brakes from AC4400 and you just can't regulate well with it. Notches 1-2 make crazy jumps in braking effort and after that, it's all chaos. It's like trying to cut onions finely with a blunt axe.

 

The minimum reduction is too much.

 

Agreed on all points. The faulty dynamic brakes were the main thing convincing me to either pass on HSC or at least wait for a big discount.

 

Plus: HPPT overkill in some services makes things even more unrealistic in terms of dynamic braking. Sure, we can turn some powers off, we can try at last - control switch is not simulated but only animated. The solution is stop locos engines and dead-trail them (dead in tow?) in the name of SIMULATION & PLAYABILITY. BR o7

PS Heavy trains with HPPT ratio below 2 are still fun to drive downhill EB but this feels somehow real bad, still.

So, this is the answer? I am sad.

 

In the ES44AC, the minimum is 7 to 8 pounds and seems to behave properly for me, allowing me a shot at blending air with that loco’s touchy dynamics.

In the GP38-2, the minimum is 10 pounds, but it doesn’t seem as strong as the 10 pounds on the SPG locos and typically won’t bring a train to a halt on a steep grade. This allows for blending with the dynamics which seem to behave better than those in the ES44 for me.

I am quite enjoying the 38-2 and wish it had more services. I would really love to get the SMH SD70 running timetable services on this route! I would also really love to get the 70 back on the SPG timetable, but that’s another story ….

 

I set a minimum application on the GEVO and the bc went to 11.

 

When we talk about the size of the minimum application, we’re talking about the reduction in brake pipe pressure: 6 pound reduction = brake pipe now at 84 psi. We’re not talking about the brake cylinder pressure.

 

In addition, the BC pressure is that of the locomotive, not the train. You should bail off the independent, locomotive brake, which will get this back to 0. If Skyhook ever updates the simugraph to be more realistic like SH is now, leaving the independent set will cause the dynamic brakes, if in use, to cut off.

 

Does the slow speed control in GEVO works?
I try to load coal right now and it seems to be broken or maybe I forgot how it works.

 

Yes it works, didnt have problems with that.

 

Thank You. Interesting Well - so this has to be me.

Another question - is the whole coal branch moves sequence like CRR turns (chain of services)?
I ask because after returning to the Free Roam I got no further instructions.

 

That's good to hear (about the airbrakes), since otherwise it would mean I screwed up somewhere . The airbrakes of the rolling stock/ES44AC should behave nearly identically to SMH except for longer brake cylinder fill and drain times (based on an engineers input).

If I recall correctly the formations in SMH were preset to start with either a full service application, but based on input from train engineers this is not very realistic for the situations simulated (crew change or stopped at a red signal before the service starts) so hence the change.

Like SHG mentioned in the preview stream the traction and dynamic brake simulation on the ES44AC was based on the SPG AC4400 rather than the SMH SD70ACe.

 

But AC dynamic brakes behavior was questioned many many times. So, is this good or not, for GEVO?

EDIT SD70 is super good in my opinion!

 

Maybe we have been looking at it wrong the whole time. Maybe we should use the independent brake to regulate the dynamic brake to regulate train speed

SD70 has awesome dynamic brakes, AC4400 does not... aaand they based the whole GEVO physics on AC4400... so yeah... not good. As much as there were and are numerous discussions about the nitty-gritty of dynamic brakes, AC4400 definitely was super wrong and so is now GEVO.

 

About the slow speed control. I checked SPG AC4400 a minute ago - works fine. Then, I checked GEVO one more time - does not work.

EDIT it works well using the first two notches or I went full crazy as I expected years ago

... further empirical research - changing cabs and observing the tractive effort

This, however, does not work entirely well. If we turn the slow speed control ON only in the LEAD loco, the others will provide traction all the time, and if necessary, LEAD will try to balance the tractive effort, but this becomes impossible over time and the train starts to accelerate. If we turn the slow speed control ON in all locomotives - tractive effort is very limited, which with a slope of ~ 1.2% does not allow to push the train to the loader. BR

so... The slow speed control only works for LEAD loco. The other MUs provide "blind" power according to the notch.

 

Good to know, i only tested the leading loco.

 

There is another little sound issue with the NS GP38-2, the beep of the alerter is very quiet when in the cab. So much so you almost miss it but when in an external camera its much louder.

I too am a little confused by the ES44AC's dynamic brake at times. Sometimes it seems to work fine and you can feather it as needed, other times it seems very reluctant to reduce braking force requiring you to go back to Setup to get it to reduce quickly.

Have the devs expressed any aspirations in regards to applying the SD70 dynamic brake physics to HSC and SPG?

DW

 

I know that MOST trains are reduced to 40 cars plus engines, on last gen. That's what Sherman Hill has for its trains. What I'm saying is, HSC freight trains are shorter than 40 cars, most are 25 and 30 cars long; and that is just way too short for US freight. Oakville Subdivision has this same problem, but worse.

On average US freight trains have around 75-100 cars; but it's not uncommon to see some with between 40 and 45 cars. Roadtrains with less than 40 are very rare.

 

I’ve not seen any trains with less than around 50-60 cars. Most are around 60-80 that I’ve seen.

 

I was about right then. I knew I’d not seen anything really short as mentioned above.

 

25W is 1.3 miles long and 8000 tons!

 

Just took an empty hopper train up the South Fork branch and it was another well done area on HSC. One thing I noticed was the total lack of whistle boards along the branch which has the most crossings of the route.

 

A bit disturbing that there's still no patch on the horizon.

 

There is soon possibly next week

 

There will be a patch coming soon hopefully next week.

 

I was playing the "Does Wet Coal Burn?" scenario in the journey last night and noticed there seems to be something wrong with the weather. After you get into the cab it starts pouring rain but when you approach the town just after you get rolling (Windber I think its called?) the external rain animations cease. From inside the cab you can still hear the rain coming down hard on the roof and you can see the rain pelting the windshields but you no longer see the rain falling outside, it just looks foggy.

I tried it three times through the journey menu and once through the Explore>Scenarios menu and it does the same thing each time.

DW

 

It is also happen to me

 

Can verify that the Save game feature is now working in HSC after today's patch, for what it's worth.

 

That this was a " core update " but only affects HSC and Harlem is a bit counter intuitive unless the save bug really does have to be fixed route by route. Perhaps this is partly why they need a pause in new releases post SOS.

 

Crosstie, I only verified that the save function will save a game and then resume it, not whether it messes up playing as one moves forward in the scenario. Guess I could try that next.

 

Well, you're right. The patch notes only say the save and resume is available, not that it works perfectly. Just because it isn't " grayed out " doesn't mean it saves the game 100%.