Has Tsw 3 Addressed The Sound Issues?

Whilst there were quite a few fancy shots of the updated weather effects, visuals & new clouds, I believe the only thing I heard relating to sounds were new thunderclap and, I think, new rain sounds?

Speaking of which, I have a few questions which I would like to ask, relating to the sounds:

• Do we still have a 32 channel sound limit?
• Has there been any improvements to the sounds of the trains themselves? Particularly the existing Class 375 and 395, which both currently sound very mediocre.
• Has the issue with sounds cutting in and out suddenly been fixed?
• Do different environments actually represent their surroundings? Countless times I have been in a busy area or station but it quite literally sounds like a ghost town.
• Do we have any sort of reverb effects in tunnels or going over bridges?
• Are we getting any sort of passenger announcements for trains and stations?

For the current TSW 2 sound issues, I've made a thread here which is also applicable for this thread, which explains the current issues and what needs addressing.

I'm hoping at least some of these issues have been addressed, as it has been a problem for a very long time now.

 

Excellent questions. It just amazes me going into TSC and running trains through tunnels, over metal bridges and level crossing platforms generates reverb and rumble, yet TSW cannot.

If this is fixed *and* the legacy content ported over is updated to reflect the effects then that just might grant a reprieve to my decision not to buy until a sale. (Well that, an end to the shadowy lighting and major save game improvements).

 

Yea good questions, especially considering DTG admitted a while ago sound was an area they wanted to improve upon but there wasn't anything in the TSW3 feature list about it and nothing has really changed overall. I remember they added some reverb to Penn Corridor a long time ago, which where it works sounds pretty neat, but it has generally disappeared since.

Another area of sound I'd like to see fixed is better isolation of AI train audio. Specifically things like hearing door closing chimes/announcements or audio of AI trains while in the cab of your train. Pretty much any train that stops next to you at a station has their audio (of things you shouldn't be able to hear) play through into the cab like you were in that train. One of the worst examples is the 422: there's a couple services for the BR101 on HRR where a 422 ahead of you pulls off into a station and as you pass in the 101 (not even near the station) the beep from the 422 doors closing plays. You can also hop in a cab of the AC4400 on SPG that has a trailing SD40 and the SD40 is louder than the AC4400 you're sitting in.

 

100% agree - thank you for raising this. I was slightly dismayed that this wasn’t addressed during the keynote, given the amount of feedback that the player community has given on this issue. To the points re bridges, tunnels, etc - this would be a game-changer in my opinion, seriously hoping that it gets added in this iteration of TSW.

 

I am just starting another run with the DB BR189 on Konstanz to Hausach in TSC and absolutely looking forward to the aural pleasures passing through tunnels and over bridges.

 

Looks like they’re addressing on an imminent roadmap -

 

TSC models those sounds?

 

Yes, MSTS did as well IIRC

 

MSTS - ha! So does OpenBVE. Kind of amazing that TSW doesn’t, here’s to hoping that they add this - it would add a tremendous amount of value to the experience.

 

Yes. In addition the sound of passing trains is better as is the overall sound quality of the traction units generally. The sound over jointed track, through pointwork or around tight curves is generally much more effective too.

The only thing you can't do in TSC is open the cab windows or doors on much of the traction to let some of the exterior sound in.

 

I bought the Glasgow Subway a few weeks back, haven’t put it through its paces yet. I’m gonna have to give it a second look now with this in mind. Thanks!

 

I don't think I'll be bothering with it. I bought TSC, I bought TSW, and I bought TSW2, and I've bought various DLCs, but none for quite a while now. I'm just sick of the bugs.

I spent half an hour on a GWE Timetable run last night (1P16 Didcot Parkway to Paddington), only to be unable to complete the journey because of a red signal just outside Paddington, caused by an AI train stuck just yards ahead of me across a set of points. Tried it again tonight and had the exact same issue.

Having these incidents occur in multiple scenarios is just a waste of my time. Given that many of these issues seem to have been imported wholesale from the original TSW, I have little faith that things will be any better in TSW3. Maybe they should fix what they've got before asking people to cough up more cash for a third collection of the same issues.

 

Apologies for bumping this thread, but I've been rereading the latest roadmap and watched all the streams so far, read the FAQ and I haven't found anything substantial in the way of audio upgrades.
I note the work done on individual trains and the " pitter- patter " of raindrops on umbrellas, but I haven't seen or heard anything about environmental sounds, tunnel and bridge reverb, track and joint sounds, cab sounds or station announcements. Maybe I've missed something.

 

You reflect what the rest of use are thinking. They haven't said anything about improvements in any of these areas and I think its because there hasn't been any.

I'd be more than happy to be proved wrong but first impressions don't look too convincing in this regard.

 

Perhaps when there are the first look streams, there might be some audio improvements but the fact that that they didn't list the audio improvements in any of their articles or streams is a bit concerning and has me a bit doubtful that we will see any major improvements

 

When they didn't mention audio in the first stream I was really disappointed. For me this is essential part of the experience. Luckily there have been some mods that have fixed some trains, but others remain in a frankly unplayable state. DTG need people to go out and get decent source audio.

 

Funnily enough I was reflecting on that struggling to get to sleep in the heat last night.

Quite rightly many of us have focused on the Save issue but numerous questions were posed in the Q&A about things like reverb in tunnels and has been ignored by DTG. Pending clarification of course, TSW3 looking more and more like a damp squib. In another thread, someone suggested it should have been issued as TSW2.2, my thinking by the time this emerges more like TSW1.95.

 

We have to remember and consider this clearly…..

The only questions answered on a stream are those that do or will sell tsw3.

When we’re asking about issues they don’t want a sales pitch to be bogged down with them.
I’m curious about track noise and junction noise, I believe Matt said the 395 has been reworked which I find interesting as they improved it on release before so I’m not sure if they’re saying it hadn’t been right for a while.

 

It's all smoke and mirrors

 

A while back someone from DTG on one of the streams said something along the lines of:
'we might have to get a professional sound engineer in to fix the sounds'

Has this been done?
as sounds are one of the big areas that TSW suffers badly, from what i've seen of rivets latest route, IOW2, they have turned the sounds in the cab way up to try and compensate for the over attenuation of cab sounds,

And now TSW3 is flashed in our faces all the time, will anything ever be done to fix the sounds in the DLC we paid for,

 

Nice to see new sounds for the 66 & 375. Although, it says now the 375 has the BML 377 sounds, but irl doesnt the 375 have some slightly differant soundings which will be lost here? I hope the sounds such as the cutting out horn is fixed from the BML 377.

We also have not heard any updates about the Spirit of Steam sound issues such as the AI missing exhaust sounds.

 

And this is why I will be paying extra special attention to the questions they do NOT answer, since the silence will be more informative than anything they do speak about.

 

For the purpose of this post, lets rephrase your comment to the "lack of acceptable sounds"

 

I think it’s safe to say that there won’t be any improvements to the several sound issues TSW has suffered for the past five or so years.

If this was truly a new game, then none of these issues would exist. However TSW 3 is NOT a new game. It’s simply an updated TSW 2 aka TSW 2.2 with a few updated features.

They’re only saying and branding it as TSW 3 purely for marketing purposes.

 

I think this has almost always been the case. Avoiding difficult or embarrassing questions is a hallmark of PR, which is mostly what the streams are about.
And, fair enough, they're trying to sell a product. I've done the same thing in my working life.
There will be lots of people studying TSW3 in that 4-day window from 9/2 thru 9/6. Their reviews will tell the tale.

 

I wonder if this 4 day early access is the bail out back up window for early adopters. Steams 2 hr window isnt really enough to assess 6 hrs of long routes.

 

I mean, I've gotten used to most marketing speak just being the same sounds, badly looped, so it's very on-brand for TSW, speaking as an XBox player XD

 

I did have a chuckle to myself when I read the statement below in the TSW3 Roadmap Part2 thread

"Here at Dovetail Games, we are always trying to ensure that we deliver the best audio experience we can."

Hmmmmm, yet to be convinced on that, sorry

 

Laughable

 

So watching last nights’ stream resulted in ZERO sound effects regarding tunnel occlusion. Completely flat sounding, with no changes in sounds as you entered or exited a tunnel.

Why is it that things are always so inconsistent? Many TSW 1 routes has tunnel reverb, TSW 2 less so and now it seems TSW 3 has abolished in completely.

 

An underground route and a high speed route with a couple of long tunnels in TSW2 and now another route with what 50 tunnels is it? for TSW3 and still....still no reverb sound, absolute joke, but hey, "they always try to ensure they deliver the best audio experience" don't forget!

 

Wasn’t there a new lead sound engineer start 3-4 months back……ermmmm

 

It is quite disgraceful really. We are getting less SoundFX than we had with MSTS 21 years ago.

The whole sound situation needs overhauling and as for the sound department, that TV show The Apprentice comes to mind - "You're fired..."

 

That doesn't count apparently like BVE it wasn't on consoles.

 

Yes, my hopes were raised concerning a revamp of the sounds in TSW3 but from what I didn't hear on Kassel it looks like I may be severely disappointed!
Reverb Effects
Reverb Effects are definable Assets with several properties that can be easily adjusted and applied to any Audio Volume placed in your Level.

With a Reverb Effect, you can adjust settings that control elements like the echo density, overall reverb gain, air absorption, and more, to help craft an overall feel.

"The Unreal Audio Engine is a robust audio engine that supports a wide variety of features across all platforms supported by Unreal Engine (UE4).

Combined with the power of Blueprints and a new multi-platform audio mixer that enables audio digital signal processing (DSP), procedural synthesis, a customizable submix graph, and a flexible C++ API, the audio engine is fully capable of shipping high-quality audio on any project, and at any scale."
One could conclude from that that the game's resources are near or at their max leaving no room for sound improvements?
And it isn't that I think DtG are not interested in a big audio improvement to the game, Sam has been an advocate pushing for more realism in that regard, I doth my cap to him for doing that on our behalf.

https://docs.unrealengine.com/4.27/en-US/WorkingWithAudio/Overview/

 

TSW might be the strangest game i ever had on my harddrive. No other game has such strange audio and lighting issues.
Since the new lighting seems to have other issues the only thing we seem to get is dynamic weather and a new UI, not something im willing to pay $40 for (yes i know...the new routes...but they could just be DLC for TSW2).

 

Why can we have horn echos at Victoria Station but not in a tunnel?

Surely it's like tsc where you highlight a section of track and select the sound, I.e Bridge, tunnel etc?

 

Nope. It's more complicated with the reverb volumes in UE4. I guess they do not work properly on those long shapes and therefor they are not used yet. TSW audio is a bit different from UE4 audio and it is not using the DSP stuff as this would not work on all platforms yet. As i remember the platforms are also a reason why the reverb is not used. It makes problems on Playstation (you might remember the BR155 sound fade out in tunnels? .. that was because of the reverb volumes). There are so much flaws with the UE4 audio engine. That is not particular DTGs fault that the audio is how it is. Audio for trains is really something different from other games audio and therefor not directly comparable.

 

In that case there is probably little hope for getting reverb working while DTG cling to UE4. Appreciate the insight Maik, but this information should be coming from DTG themselves really, their silence on the matter is appalling.

And I think this definitely suggests whatever happens next with TSW, it’s time to look for a game engine more suited to train simulation and step away from UE.

 

I'm pretty sure that was mentioned officially on a few streams and somewhere in a text-post.

There is none. At least every available engine does the same. TSW uses UE4 but under the hood it's not a original UE4. There were lots of additions to the code to make it a train simulator, other code got fixed, and so on. That would be needed for every other engine too. Most engines that are suitable for making a train sim with them, are doing the same stuff and were made more for action/adventure/sidescroller games. There you have completely different requirements to fit than on a train simulator. Lot's of people here think DTG just grabbed UE4, added 2 lines of code and tada we have a TSW. Definitely not!! There were going in years of engineering work before it was even the first version of TSW. This also was mentioned a few times on a stream by Matt with lots of details as i remember.

 

Hmmm Sim (Train game done by a single guy) and Tram SiM (which i believe is also UE4) dont have these issues. Why?

 

TramSim has lots of issues all over. I don't know yet if they use a audio middle-ware too, but that maybe would explain why they may not have the audio issues. Same for HmmmSim. Why does DTG not use audio middle-ware. Believe me, i tried to get them to use one. But there is a problem. A tiny developer studio like ViewApp and Jeminie can use middle-ware on a indie-game licence base. And as long as they not pull out much DLCs, they can stay on that. It costs them nearly nothing to use it (FMOD, WWise,CRIWARE). For DTG this stuff is to expensive. That would raise retail prices by a lot just for having that neat audio middle-ware. I have no idea if that maybe is not a problem at some point anymore, but now it is. And it's not only the software, it's the people they have to use it. That stuff is complicated as hell and needs a team of experienced audio artists and engineers doing only that for the game. Remember, TSW is a train sim, not a AAA Action Game or something with a few hundred millions $ of a budget behind it. Good stuff is really expensive in that industry. Maybe not an excuse, yeah. DTG could just hold back TSW at all because of not having a good audio solution and wait 10 years until UE4 can do it too for no extra cost. But the majority of players are happy with what TSW is. Only a few here on the forums mainly, are constantly unhappy with all of it.

 

By no means do I think it was that easy. Hats off to the team as ue editor boggles my mind. I made a few simple racing circuits up to the standards of the sort of thing you would see on a Sega megadrive! That's as far as I wanted to go.

 

Thanks for the answer Maik Goltz
But sorry, it somehow is never the fault of DTG...its always the fault of UE4 or DTG is to small...or in this case "not small enough". Or its to complicated, to much work...
In the end DTG makes millions. They should invest some of that money into such software if it helps with the massive audio issues and hire new people.

 

Just, the truths you won't to hear. So i stop telling about it now. Look at the other thread what i said what you should do. Bye

 

Well, they did it for SPG, so they obviously know how to do it.

 

This is always fundamentally a problem when you have something that as far as most people are concerned might as well be magic.
The understanding of it among most people is filtered via layman's terms to the point where they get that it can do certain things, and expect that of it, but don't understand how that's done or fully appreciate everything that can go into finding a way to make it do those things which also does not conflict with the other things you want it to do, and how bespoke so many of the resulting products actually are.

 

As I said in the other thread about the dazzling graphics, if UE is not up to the job or cannot be modified then they should go back to the drawing board. TSC has none of these issues with graphics or sound and even the save game works, with a slot for every scenario. Time to rework TSC into something more akin to TSW but which can offer features its more up to date peer apparently cannot.

 

From tsw2020 to tsw2 the sound quality worsened significantly. We'll be lucky if it stays the same this time...