The Downfall Of Trainsim World For Me. I'm Certainly Not Intrested In A 3rd Attempt To Get It Right.

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Gabe_1.0, Aug 25, 2022.

  1. Did he just call me a looney?
     
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  2. tbaac

    tbaac Well-Known Member

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    Me 2, I never saw why anyone would want to save. But with the routes getting longer now, I can see that it would be useful so yeah, I hope that we get saving soon.
     
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  3. tbaac

    tbaac Well-Known Member

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    Nope. "...act like a loony". He was talking about behaviour.
     
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  4. dr4w4t

    dr4w4t Member

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    No.
     
  5. That's just the way people are. People will sit quietly listening to thier governments promises for months but when they realise the government aren't keeping those promises they start demanding answers! And when people start demanding, it's never polite.
     
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  6. I was kidding mate. I am a looney.
     
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  7. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    DTG are far fram a mllion dollar outfit. EA is a million dollar outfit, so is Rockstar. But DTG are still juat small potatos.
     
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  8. I would say ea and rockstar are in billion dollar territory. You can look at dtg's annual turnover online. It's in the millions.
     
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  9. anarchy99

    anarchy99 Well-Known Member

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    No lol. EA and Rockstar is in the billions. DTG's revenue is multi millions.
     
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  10. dr4w4t

    dr4w4t Member

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    Man this comparison is so exaggerated. DTG is not my government and i don't fight with them about human rights.

    I know some things are frustrating in TSW, but be cool and give them some time to act (i know 5 years TSW problems). Nonetheless be polite and ask again and more important, say DTG sometimes what they have done good.
     
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  11. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    How do people know its not better when no one has physically played it before? And the only previews we have seen have not been very in depth.

    I hear everyone gripping bit no one has actually played it yet. So speculate away.

    From what I have seen the lighting is very much improved over TSW 2.

    Either way I will be playing on the 2nd when the early access comes out. Then I will bash the game were needed if it does not play at least as good as TSW2.

    But from what I see this is an improvement. I am going to love to see all these people who say I'm not buying complain after they bought the game in the first month. It always happens.
     
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  12. It's not really an exaggeration. When people are lied to they don't like it. And when people don't like things they get angry.

    5 years now on the save issue. Dtg response we are looking into it. 5 years later.... dtg. Can people post what's happening with save issues in this new thread. Which says to me they have only just started looking into it.

    Then dtg look into, can't fix it and remove it! That is a kick in the goodies.

    Even when I accused dtg of being chaotic I still praised there product! A lot of people that complain in a bad manner still praise there products at some point.
     
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  13. anarchy99

    anarchy99 Well-Known Member

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    You're not wrong.
     
  14. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    There is no rule against a person making a thread like this so they can do as they wish. You don't have to respond if you think it's pointless or a waste of time
     
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  15. dr4w4t

    dr4w4t Member

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    Good post. Now i see much clearer.
     
  16. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    I have deleted as mentioned elsewhere. I am not prepared to run it on low settings and have to find £1500 plus for a new PC to get the settings up. No save feature. No way of editing the timetable and no randomisation of trains routing. The dynamic weather is welcome but to be honest we need to be using MSFS as a benchmark for the weather settings not suddenly putting them in and acting the like the wheel has been invented. I am not convinced like many that bugs have gone. I really do wish the project well but can't get enthusiastic and have plenty of other stuff to get on with.
     
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  17. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    I would remind you that Asobo have actually lowered cloud quality with MSFS updates, it's the subject of similar levels of complaints to many of the ongoing TSW issues.
     
  18. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    Not now, Su10 Beta is awesome!
     
  19. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    I do not touch the save button even with a stick. Sometimes just touching it bugs your current session.
     
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  20. tbaac

    tbaac Well-Known Member

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    Not this again. Lying means deliberately misleading someone. DTG would be crazy to do that because they'd get found out. Lying isn't the same as saying something that you later have to backtrack on because things don't work out how you thought. That's not ideal either, but is isn't lying. "Dad, you said I'd get a bike for Christmas. You lied!". Promising and then failing to deliver is disappointing for everyone, but it isn't the same as lying unless you know when you say it that it isn't true.
     
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  21. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    You should look up DTG. They certainly are a multi million dollar company, not some indie dev sitting in a garage ;)

    The clouds have actually improved (like many other things in MSFS) and are going to get even better.
     
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  22. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't say the downfall of the series yet, but definitely not a good direction with all these re-releases.

    One thing is sure, I am not going to buy TSW3 straight away. But I will be watching with interest and maybe get it if it turns out to be good. But that's still a maybe. What I will be curious to see is the quality of future routes as well, not just these first three. Just remember, Sand Patch and Great Western Express were also great starter routes in the beginnings, then for a good while we just got a bunch of mediocre or very bad ones following them. I'm done with broken and content lacking routes, will only buy stuff that I know for sure are good.
     
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  23. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    For me, I've stopped playing TSW 2 'properly' for a long time. It has come to the point where I will probably launch TSW 2 once or twice a week, play a service, to then quit the game.

    There's just been too many broken promises, bugs, performance issues, sound issues, inconsistent lighting profiles and wild fluctuations in detail and accuracy from route to route. There are even route specific features which don't make it into the core game, and are only ever seen once - such as multiple ballast textures. Consistency has always been extremely poor.

    There's also not much to keep me enrolled in the game. There's ZERO dynamic events, which make pretty much all timetable mode services an A-B green-light snooze-fest. Dynamic weather is all well and good in TSW 3 but once again, it will have zero effect on AI trains, which means you will always experience the exact same gameplay. No late running or red signals.

    The three routes launched with TSW 3 will probably be given 'special treatment' but I expect that to soon wear off, with the following DLCs having all of the above issues.

    I'll wait and see for reviews and more gameplay, but its looking more and more of just a re-brand with a few 'under the hood' changes as opposed to the marketing nonsense DTG like to use, by calling TSW 3 a 'brand new game'. It clearly isn't, and most people know that.
     
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  24. nockwurst

    nockwurst Well-Known Member

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    I decided to do London last night. Didn’t do a save because I figured what the heck, might as well get used to no save. Game crashed less than a mile from my final stop. That was only an hour wasted, sigh.

    No save function is madness.
     
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  25. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion DTG performed a slight misstep with TSW3 by not offering a loyalty discount for TSW/TSW2 owners. This is not just for TSW3, but for every annual refresh.

    Everything about TSW3 screams as being aimed at a new player. Sure we get our preserved routes being ported across....but that would be the minimum expectation imo

    I have pre-ordered TSW3 (I did so on the day of announcement); so possibly I am part of the problem I know.....but it doesn't stop me thinking about how this release could have catered to the existing player base rather than just at the new player.

    It's players such yourself I want to see keep playing...as I have (as many others have) enjoyed the mod work you have done in the past and it will be a noticeable gap not seeing what you can do in TSW3. I hope DTG are thinking about these things as well (assuming they give 2 hoots about the PC modding community)
     
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  26. jeff.engle

    jeff.engle Active Member

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    I too really enjoy the variety of routes and “last century” trains in TSC. On the other hand, for me, buying the 3 longer routes for TSW3 makes it a no brainer, and the major enhancements are a pleasant plus. I even went and purchased Southeastern High Speed to get another long route when TSW3 is released. I spend half my time with TSC, and the other half with TSW. Given the packaging it works for me, and that’s where all the new development is going to be focused going forward. Not certain what a no charge, no route upgrade would give anyone. Anyways, TSC is far from dead for me.
     
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  27. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    I am not at all the one doing the spinning here. I aim to be as honest and helpful in these forums, and I believe in giving credit where credit is due.
    The fact is there's been quite a substantial effort put into this title. Theres a decent amount of quality-of-life additions that have been put into TSW3.
    Things like dynamic weather, the UI, visual effects, changes to passengers.
    There's plenty of things that were lacking in previous TSW titles, or just outright sucked. And here they are, being addressed finally.

    These claims of everything being already present in TSW2 is what's false and being spun and twisted into a warped perspective. Are you really telling me that a Playstation or XBox player can see lightning in TSW2. No they can't.
    Are you telling me they have fixes for night lighting or any other visuals? No they can't.

    Just because a handful of guys have access to some mods doesn't mean everyone playing the game already has seen or experienced these things before. Bringing these features into the main game for everyone to experience is what TSW3 is about.

    And okay Mr. Expert, you're telling me that these Unreal 4 features are just some box you're supposed to tick and boom, you instantly have clouds in the game? Thats not how it works buddy. There's some work that's gone into setting things up and writing scripts for them. And that's just the technical side, clouds can form in a million different ways, the cloud and sky visuals from UE4 game to UE4 game are often not similar at all if you pay attention to this stuff. There's a bunch of little nuances to it, and every game has a different art style and feel to it. Thus, there's different ways of approaching this one feature.
    Just because something already exists out-of-the-box doesn't mean that it doesn’t require some setting-up to do.

    Again, who's the one doing the spinning here? It sure isn't me.
    I'm done having this argument if we're just going to keep repeating the same things over and over.
     
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  28. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Yeah? Well they just did that, by claiming the 90-day gap in releases was a stand-down for bug fixes and quality improvements.

    That.
    Was.
    A.
    Lie.

    They were working on TSW3 instead. No bugs fixed, no improvements to quality.
     
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  29. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I started an HSC scenario today. I got about half way through ( about an hour in ) and I simply had to save, no choice whatsoever. Life called for gosh sakes.

    Madness is right.
     
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  30. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    The Washington Post Fact Checker hands out " Pinnochios " ( between 1 and 4 ).
    Maybe we should start our own awards. " Pork pies ", anyone? :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2022
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  31. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    I see it as DTG has always lied about the game, said were going to fix stuff that never gets fixed.

    But its been going on for 5 years, so why would you expect anything else? This is the standard they have set why would people expect that to change.

    Trust me the sooner you come to terms that you aren't going to change how they work, don't take everything they say as a promise, and realize the game is not made for any one of us in particular but for a wide variety of people. You will be alot happier with the game and play more.
     
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  32. tbaac

    tbaac Well-Known Member

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    Does the new lighting in the preview streams look better than the old lighting (I think the general consensus is yes, even if eye adaptation is a bit controversial). They have also been working on sound improvements, particularly for SEHSe. So, that's improvements to how it looks and how it sounds. And they always have a list of bugs that they're working on (e.g. at the moment the save game issue, and longer term the xbox sound issue).
     
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  33. wxtr7

    wxtr7 Well-Known Member

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    I'm gonna continue with TSW2 for a while, though I don't play the game like I used to (ongoing trend pretty much since TSW2 though). Most of the German stuff I have is pretty good and I'm hoping we'll get the Penn Corridor update soon as I really enjoyed that route back in the TSW1 days. As for TSW3, I spent my $50 on Run8 - best decision I made. I've realized even if the graphics aren't great at least the sounds are realistic, headlights are actually bright, and you can do way more prototypical operations than just cut in the air and drive until the next red light (and I don't even do multiplayer). Their physics are also still miles ahead of anything simugraph does in TSW. Heck, their AI can use horns.

    Nothing about TSW3 interests me. They haven't actually touched some of the core issues (like stuttering), they're just now looking into the saving issue (and removed the option altogether). The new lighting isn't nearly as good as they say, every time I've seen the ICE1 in sunlight it looks overexposed/washed out and like a toy, and except in very specific instances the lighting looks wrong. No matter what the audio team was gonna say in their stream, they haven't done anything except add some menu music. DTG has been in business for over 10 years and barely have partners for acquiring audio so US stock just gets recycled hot garbage sounds that don't even resemble the real things. Listening to some of the sounds on the stream with Sam the other night, everything is the same, including that horrible rain sound that is deafeningly loud inside cabs. Adam's team is moving away from primarily fixing routes and on to adding gimmicks to the training center route which I think personally is the biggest slap in the face, especially given the status of some of even the newer TSW2 routes. I'd love to come on to these forums right now and give praise to DTG (since all of my recent postings have been quite negative), but TSW3 isn't close to being ready and the 'DTG shortcut express' is arriving right on time (train pun intended) as usual.
     
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  34. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    This is best summarised by this now infamous thread
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/ts19-réseau-renaissance.14205/
     
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  35. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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  36. NateDogg7a

    NateDogg7a Well-Known Member

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  37. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    EA:
    Market cap: 35.46 billion
    Revenue:7 billion

    Take Two (Owners of Rockstar):
    Market cap: 20.92 billion
    Revenue: 1.4 billion

    DTG:
    Market cap: (Value estimated at around 100 million in 2020?)
    Revenue: 39 million

    Small potatoes by the standards of multibillion companies, sure. Barely more than 0.3% of EA, but very much a multimillion outfit. These are, after all, big numbers we are talking here.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2022
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  38. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Thats a very good point. Dtg puts them self so many stones into their way, that after a while an entire cut to a next tsw is nessecary.
    A dlc based title, where every addon is a self contained peace just isnt working out.

    To name another example: now with ska getting released, tsw3 starts with multiple versions of the german dostos, multiple versions of the cl.377. Same for the br185.
     
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  39. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    Ah "the list", regularly updated with new bug and issues but hardly anything on it ever gets fixed...and if it gets fixed it's just a few years of waiting and possibly needs of purchase of the "new" TSW

    Sound fix for all the TSW2 dlc with broken sound and sound problems is incoming when?
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2022
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  40. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    When you have Adam asking Sam if he has the latest build, two weeks before release, you know the thing is in a rough spot. Two weeks before release there should be "THE BUILD", not a different untested build each stream, fresh out of the build process.

    No wonder DTG breaks existing functionality all the time, when they have that little time to do regression tests...
     
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  41. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    They're showing us their stuff as you've put it, and to be fair it's not great.
     
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  42. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Great idea, but then you'd offend upset any vegans that don't understand rhyming slang.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2022
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  43. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. Unless some of the fixes (are there actually any?) being made as part of the transition to TSW3 are also retrofitted to TSW2, then yes it was a brass faced lie. Some companies would actually regard falsification as gross misconduct and dismiss those responsible.
     
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  44. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    Has DTG ever comment on the "oh the time after SOS will be used to fix issues in TSW2" thing that now seems to be just words already forgotten?
    Since now it's all about how we should buy TSW3?
    Which still contains most of the same bugs/issues as far as we know?
     
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  45. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    Was meaning more the fact MSFS weather can be pulled from real time data or selected to suit the desired effect. TSW surely could match these features as a lot of us in timetable mode will play to the current outside conditions ie night runs at night etc....
     
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  46. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    With the terrible night lighting I never did night runs and I avoid sundown and sunset because of the lighting issues
     
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  47. tbaac

    tbaac Well-Known Member

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    I've thought that it would be a nice feature for a while (real world weather). Unlike in flight sims (where wind numbers are important for navigation and time calculations, either manually or within the flight management computer) in TSW, it would be enough to just have similar conditions to what is outside (cloudy day, bit rainy, windy, snowy, etc.).
     
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  48. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe that anything should be free. There are costs to everything and this is simply a fact of life. What I don't like is that they are once again refreshing the product while focusing on the same 3 countries! How many more UK, Germany, and US routes can we be expected to get excited over? This is why I now prefer Train Simulator Classic. I used to buy new DLCs for TSW all the time. I have stopped doing so over the past several months due to the lack of variety (countries).

    I think new versions should release with all-new routes plus maintain the ability to use your existing. This one comes with SEHS and Spirit of Steam which are already existing.
     
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  49. RizGE777

    RizGE777 Member

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    True, because you cannot save a service in reality. TSW 2 is not an arcade game imho, but as it was there already from the start, then it will come back hopefully fixed for the players that do use it, but I personally never needed to use it.
     
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  50. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    I often find save quite useful when learning a route or learning PZB/LZB.

    I hit save when I am entering a tricky part of a route or facing some challenging signal indications and this allows me to practice and get smoother.

    It mostly works for me in these instances.
     
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