PC Rivet Class 150

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Rob39, Sep 11, 2022.

  1. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Acceleration needed an update and perhaps thats better now. Whats going on with the engine sounds though? How was this accepted as a serious submission?
     
  2. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I think it just has to be accepted that the sounds will never be fixed for the 150, as long as Rivet are in charge.
     
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  3. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I knew there was a reason why, after someone else posted the other day things were much improved, I didn't rush to rebuy this.
     
  4. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Most of the changes are for the physics. There's patch notes for it. But you get the delay from applying power and moving. Slower acceleration from 0-30mph, higher rev up, etc.
     
  5. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Sounds have been made worse. High notch applications now result in a pulsating revving sound, and it seems to be scripted in, so not even fixable with a sound mod.
     
  6. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    There's also no rev sounds from notch 4 to notch 7 either. It sounds so poor with the looping rev sounds.
     
  7. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Especially at notch 7. There's a audible looping until it reaches like 34mph when there's the engine transition and the looping is no longer audible
     
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  8. Andy L

    Andy L Member

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    Patch, what patch? I've got West Cornwall inTSW2 via Steam and haven't received any update / patch.
     
  9. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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  10. GuitarMan

    GuitarMan Well-Known Member

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    the patch at this stage I believe has only been applied to TSW3
     
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  11. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Yea you're right.
     
  12. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    I’ve noticed fhat max acceleration actually happens in notch 4, anything above this doesn’t alter the sound of acceleration at all
     
  13. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    So basically it's still way off, then?
     
  14. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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  15. bescot

    bescot Well-Known Member

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    Jasper_Rivet can you assist with these matters please?

    As above
    1. Weird pulsing noise in the engine sounds up to 45mph
    2. Max power is obtained in power notch 4. Higher notches don't apply extra revs or power.

    Also the call signaller is placed on the cab-cab and P.A handset instead of the NRN radio handset. The cab heater switch does nothing, but the aux heat turns on the cab heater. Aux heat is to preheat the webasco in the engines for winter and nothing to do with the fan on the drivers heater.

    Added for info from further experiments:


    New
    I think a bug in the simulation for the 150 is limiting the RPM above power N4, so probably causing that engine pulsing - like a rev limiter and definately a bug in the simulation.

    I did a quick test and put the 166 simulation file in the 150. Then the 150 went up to full revs beyond notch 4, and there was no rev pulsing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
  16. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Moral of the story is, if you can’t model the switches properly, don’t bother! Otherwise it’s a bit like loading up FS and having the pitot switch lower the landing gear!
     
  17. bescot

    bescot Well-Known Member

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    I think a bug in the simulation for the 150 is limiting the RPM above power N4, so probably causing that engine pulsing - like a rev limiter and definately a bug in the simulation.

    I did a quick test and put the 166 simulation file in the 150. Then the 150 went up to full revs beyond notch 4, and there was no rev pulsing.

    A quick YT vid showing the Sept release of the 150 WHICH I EDITED THE PHYSICS to use the class 166 simulation file - this shows what the throttle should do - increase revs and power all through the throttle handle's range. Currently the Rivet Games version does not do anything different in power notch 5, 6 or 7

     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
  18. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    Any chance of a fix for this TrainSim-Matt especially with TSW2 expecting an update soon?
     
  19. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I've passed it on to third party team for them to review and discuss with Rivet, thanks for the report.
     
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  20. Jasper_Rivet

    Jasper_Rivet Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the feedback guys, will forward to our devs.
     
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  21. nhilsubsolenovum

    nhilsubsolenovum Active Member

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    Can't DTG just do a proper 150 with the correct sounds and bin this one?
     
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  22. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    That would be the ideal solution. The basic physics (with weight adjustment for the different body styles) could then also apply to 153's, 155's and 156's if they ever made it in the game.
     
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  23. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Yes they could do a lovely 2nd Gen DMU pack, completely built new from the ground up by themselves only.

    I was initially very excited and grateful about the update. But then the more I play it, as per usual the more issues I find. Yes the physics are better, but there are still problems with it. Missing brake rub, track joint sounds still aren’t correct, max acceleration in notch 4, weird engine sounds. It doesn’t rev up like real life the rev sounds are just louder and higher pitched. The real ones rev up like crazy and then settle down again before pulling away.

    But it has taken nearly a year for them to even release any kind of fix. The chances of more tweaks happing now are almost zero. So I have decided I am not even going to waste my energy reporting the issues to them, not going to hope of it ever being anywhere close to AP standard, and have just binned it from my collection now. Good effort rivet, you tried very hard but unfortunately didn’t quite cut the mustard.
     
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  24. Odd1ne

    Odd1ne Active Member

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    If you put the train in brake application 1 you can load up the throttle partly to get the revs up then release the brake to get that pull away sound. Should be still louder regardless. Still don't understand how Armstrong can get the sounds so good and rivet cannot.
     
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  25. Jasper_Rivet

    Jasper_Rivet Well-Known Member

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    We've put in a fix for the Class 150/2 not reving any higher after notch 4. Now needs to go through QA of course.
     
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  26. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    It’s because Rivet have completely bodged up the physics, which in term affects the way the recordings sound.

    In fact for a lot of it, they haven’t even linked the majority of AP’s recordings to their 150. They took the lazy route and just linked generic TSW core sounds to the 150. So there’s a lot of unused/under-utilised recordings.

    All in all, the 150 is only good for AI use. Either that or it goes in the bin.

    Mark my words, this will never be up to standard of the TSC AP version.
     
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  27. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    It's no different to playing the same CD through tinny headphones or big well tuned speakers.
    What you put in will only come out the same if everything is just so.
    AP do better technical sound programming than just about anyone else in the train sim field, so you get better output from that same input
     
  28. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, this is very true and I totally agree with you.
     
  29. Bravo2six

    Bravo2six Well-Known Member

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    I thought it was weird that the 150/2 was struggling to climb some of the Cornish hills, i went back to playing it after a few months and didn't recall it being so sluggish up the single line between Truro and St Austell.
     
  30. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Yes it couldn't even get to transmission transition speed on some of the hills. Gone from overpowered to underpowered at a stroke.

    2 x 300hp Cummins engines have a little more oomph than that!
     
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  31. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    I know, totally ridiculous. You also have maximum acceleration in notch 4, Notch 5, 6, 7 is no different. Rivet just useless at physics, end of story
     
  32. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Couldn’t someone literally just copy the exact physics profile setup from the Class 166 over to the 150/2 and just change the gear cross over speed to 45mph. Very little difference between them and it would be a huge step closer to realism than the current mess they’ve left it in
     
  33. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Only problem there would be the top speed is 90 MPH rather than 75 but yes probably better than what we got.

    Sadly I fear will hear no more from Rivet on the matter.
     
  34. Bravo2six

    Bravo2six Well-Known Member

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    DTG Matt Jasper_Rivet could we get this looked at and sorted out please?

    Sorry to tag, but the 150 is in such a bad state, can it be chased up?
     
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  35. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Rivet did say during the last time the 150 got updated that they would fix it. But then again, they are working on a new uk dlc so it might be an even longer wait unless they release it before the route of course
     
  36. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    The whole route really needs an update. Hayle bay still looks like a quarry and the influx of trees spoils the landscape. I would happily pay again if it got a SEHS style makeover, preferably with an extension to Falmouth. Maybe even set it modern day if the GWR branding can be used again? That way the HST can be layered in instead of using slightly inappropriate NTP stock.
     
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  37. Bravo2six

    Bravo2six Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully so, and it's in an update soon. Especially as it was over 2 months ago.

    Would love to see the Falmouth extension!
     
  38. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    I am sure the top speed could be tweaked too.

    I don’t know for sure but I am sure I read somewhere that the 150s and 156s can also run up to 90mph like the 158s and 166s, technically possible anyway, but certainly not ‘certified’ to run above 75mph in day to day running….I could be wrong though
     
  39. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    The gearing is slightly different which is why, when the 166's replaced the 143's and 150's on the Severn Beach line a few years ago, they lost time hand over fist. More sluggish acceleration. Probably still better than Rivet's bungling attempts though, what!
     

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