Uk Train Sim Still In Business?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by KodiakJac, Dec 20, 2022.

  1. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Are you not aware of the UKTS forum?
     
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  2. MarkA

    MarkA New Member

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    I personally don't really care about the downloads since my TSC interest don't really lie with UK content and the Assets that are used in other community content like the UKTS Freeware Packs are being hosted for free at many other locations without speed restrictions anyway.

    However I DO care about the many usefull forumpost there are about content creation, scripting etc.
    The amounts of times i got my answer via an old UKTS forumpost when searching for a solution via Google is quite a lot actually. There would be a lot of TSC 'knowledge' forever lost to the world if the forums would shutdown. Is their any chance atleast the forum can be preserverd as read-only archive when the downloads/frontpage inevitably dissapear?
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2023
  3. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    As a relatively dead forum, and one I only visit for old forum posts from five to ten years ago (which appears to be a common theme), I wouldn't have looked on there. If Matt and Peter had asked on the TSC Discord server or on here they would have got a much larger response.
     
  4. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    As the forums are public, you can easily archive them using sites like the Wayback Machine. I encourage you to do so.
     
  5. Acorncomputer

    Acorncomputer Member

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    Hi All

    UKTS has been a big part of my Trainsim activities over the last 15 years or so, and I note that I am the 11th most enthusiastic poster, just behind Matt at 10th position.

    I am extremely grateful to Matt and Peter, the moderators and everyone involved with making UKTS such an important Trainsim site and all those wonderful people who took the time to create content for the library and provided priceless tutorials, detailed "How To" threads and a huge range information to share with us all. Not forgetting the technical input from Derek Siddle and Adam Lucas in those early days of Railworks as well.

    Sadly, most of my UKTS posts make little sense now as I placed all of my screenshots in the associated Atomic Album which seems to have been closed down, so hundreds of images are missing from the threads.

    I understand the many and varied problems of running a site like UKTS, and if it were just a matter of money then I would be happy to contribute, but it does look as though the end of the site is nigh.

    Thanks once again to all involved with UKTS, but for those still interested in what I do, I have opened up a thread in the Content Creation section of this site so that I can carry on with progress reports on the long haul route creation of the Bluebell Railway for Train Simulator Classic. Originally intended to be placed in the UKTS Library and only dependent on content that Train Simulator Classic users will already have and my original models for everything else, I am not sure what its fate will be (I doubt if Dovetail Games will be interested as there is no dependent content to obtain other that the basic game) but I have yet to finish the route, which may take some time yet, and I can review the situation then.

    For those interested in seeing the work in progress, I hope to be taking part in the Bluebell Railway Model Railway Weekend later this year, but this is yet to be confirmed. Follow my thread for updates.

    Thank you UKTS and I guess, goodbye.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2023
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  6. Acorncomputer

    Acorncomputer Member

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  7. USRailFan

    USRailFan Active Member

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    So I guess we'll all be putting our stuff at ATS now then...
     
  8. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    Personally I wonder if one of the more established game modding sites like Nexus or ModDB wouldn't be a better choice.
     
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  9. USRailFan

    USRailFan Active Member

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    Does Nexusmods even have a category for sims?
     
  10. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    I think they'll make a category for whatever game you want if you ask them to.
     
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  11. decrepitts#7027

    decrepitts#7027 Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm... I hadn't thought of NEXUS, though I've used in for years to DL RPG mods. Might be worth investigating.
     
  12. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Should one of us try that FTP server thing to keep the downloads up?
     
  13. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    There's no rush tbh - you have a few months yet.

    Matt.
     
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  14. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I have a large download archive of everything I could find in the TS category. Scenarios, routes, reskins. Even some that I cannot use. The only ones I might not fully have are the RSC Class 37 reskins because there is really no reason for those. I also got a bunch labelled Railworks. We'll have to figure out how to handle this content, because technically the owner of the content is allowed to say that they do not want the content to be republished. Others have passed over the years or stopped playing the game. So how we handle the large collection of assets is a question that we will indeed have to solve. One user who still actively posts, rosgar, maintains a Facebook page and may not want to publish anywhere else besides UKTS, so it is possible some places will turn into use them if you know them. Best I can suggest.
     
  15. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    yes but at the end of the day the ONLY person who can suggest what happens to assets THEY own is the AUTHOR no one else.
     
  16. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I just said that. The issue is that some assets are so old and some people literally are not involved any longer, so they do not know their much needed assets for some are no longer there. That's where the problem comes in. Active users can indeed find new homes for content they create. It will be a challenge to maintain availability of assets if the author indeed does not republish them.
     
  17. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    That is not what you said. You said and I quote your post “I also got a bunch labelled Railworks. We'll have to figure out how to handle this content, because technically the owner of the content is allowed to say that they do not want the content to be republished.”
    What part do YOU have to figure out on how
    To handle others content ???
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2023
  18. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Just want to flag up i've fixed all the SSL cert issues, and have resolved the issue with the subscriptions - so if any other issues please let me know.

    Matt.
     
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  19. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Some great mixed messages there Matt you should work for DT.... Oh wait...
     
  20. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Think this is the clarity everyone deserves.. Image2.jpg
     
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  21. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Matt - is there any chance you can renegotiate with Steam the terms for putting TSC routes on the workshop, i.e. permit the archive to include third party assets? I know this could be a permissions nightmare but I'm thinking of 3D models the route builder has created themselves such as station signs.

    I'm not too bothered about MSTS or OR as I haven't touched it in over a year and most of my stuff was on the community CD's for which there is little demand and well past its time anyway. However TSC is very much alive and kicking and freeware route creation is pretty pointless without somewhere to host the files.

    My own experience with web hosting came to an ignoble end when The Forge Digital went dark and that was the end of my interest. A solution might be Train Sim Dev which still seems to be there but largely dead with little forum activity and the last upload 2 years ago.
     
  22. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Or DTG could host a mod upload section, it's the modding community that's kept this game alive over the years how about DTG throw us a lifeline for once?
     
  23. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Not sure how you get that, I might not be the person who manages UKTS as a site (that's my dad) but i'm still the one paying for it, keeping the servers ticking over and making any changes Dad asks for. If I can provide any further clarity on it i'm happy to do so? I stepped down from running UKTS as soon as I started my role here at Dovetail, specifically to avoid any conflict of interest.

    It isn't a steam thing - that decision was made by DTG specifically because otherwise it opens it up for copyright violations and would require significantly more moderation along with manual file review and approval (the same as UKTS has), which is simply not viable on the scale that Steam Workshop for TSC operates at. I am not aware of whether the current Producer for TSC has plans to review this or not, that'd be something for the TSC team to comment on, i'm out of my depth at this point on TSC :)

    Matt.
     
  24. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I fixed the certs and premium sub issue so that anyone who wants to get access over the next few months can do so, that's all. Not a mixed message, end date is end date unless premiumn sub numbers can get to the level that pays for its server fees (about 150 people).

    Matt.
     
  25. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Sad to see the news Matt, but we knew the day was coming. This gives a chance for content owners to get their stuff moved. Maybe OTS will be able to host some routes, or SSS. We shall see!
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2023
  26. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    What causes such high server fees, Matt?

    I’m presuming data throughput, but if the site’s hardly used much, why would it be so high?
     
  27. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    There is usually at least one person downloading. And since one download is 50 kbps, or 4 is also 50 kbps, just do the math by 50 knps every second of every day. There are blank periods, though.
     
  28. Cuddy_Man

    Cuddy_Man Well-Known Member

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    A 10 second search turned up reputable performance server solutions with unlimited bandwidth for £15/month.

    Goodness knows what you'd get for £500 a month.
     
  29. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I will say unlimited bandwidth, multiple business e-mail addresses, and a free trip to Hawaii after a year. :D
     
  30. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    what’s the upload and download speeds though the premium speeds are lightning fast
     
  31. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Appreciate the info re Steam Workshop, Matt. Hopefully someone from the TSC team will see this thread and have a think about what can be done.

    As regards hosting, I would think you have to tread very carefully before signing up with something as large as UKTS. I mentioned Forge Digital and at first they came highly recommended, but the service gradually deteriorated with the loss of the Control Panel, but they still took the subs then eventually stopped responding to emails or messages. They were still maintaining a shiny front end trying to solicit new business on their web page though.

    Prior to Forge I had used M8 up in Scotland somewhere but they just shut their operation down with hardly any notice. So there's a lot of cowboys and fly by night operators out there in the murky world of web hosting.,
     
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  32. Cuddy_Man

    Cuddy_Man Well-Known Member

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    That's a valid point, and until you start listing out your site requirements and comparing them with the detail of the hoster's offer you don't know whether it's what you need. I suspect £15/month is too low for a service to meet current UKTS specs, but maybe a reduced level of service would still be acceptable to users?
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2023
  33. DazTrainz

    DazTrainz Member

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    A question I've had....
    Will this massively affect TS Classic? I'm still trying to decide if that's the sim I wanna use mostly because it has a lot of those old locomotives like the Flying Scotsman and all that.
     
  34. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    It’s really for a variety of third party routes that stipulate a few favourites, like station clutter, old signals, ambient noise, grass packs, etc.
     
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  35. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Can I enquire into this more - what conflicts of interest could actually occur?
    It will affect modern third party content less than older stuff (say five years old or more) as these heavily used UKTS assets in many. I like playing older routes as much as new ones which is why the closure will affect me a lot. However moving past Train Simulator, UKTS has large libraries of content for other games, mainly Microsoft Train Simulator, where the site started, and amusing Matt wrote a blog post he likely regrets on the site talking about the benefits of Trainz and MSTS over Train Simulator, which is highly ironic considering his history with Train Simulator and TSW.
     
  36. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I'll let Matt answer for himself, but as a general rule of thumb, being involved with one company and then taking a position with another company that does the same activity or type of product is a general taboo thing in the business world. It would be akin to taking a job as an accountant with an accounting firm, then starting to do accounting work as your own business from home. That's basically taking business for the work you do at home away from the firm, in a sense. Or you're doing work from a firm's client at home and collecting from that instead of the firm. So is the case, I think, with UKTS and DTG.
     
  37. 390001

    390001 Well-Known Member

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    Matt does not own UKTS it is his Father Peter whom is a lovely man in the community and his model railways is just outstanding!
     
  38. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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  39. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Ukts is an independent site doing reviews and taking actions on forums etc independently. My being closely involved at a senior level in one developer can't be anything but a conflict.

    Even as it was after I stepped down, dad and I would frequently get harassment mails or posts claiming we were biased towards dovetail even though in all honesty dad doesn't like TSC at all and never got into TSW! Sigh. We split it out like that specifically to avoid any influence accidental or otherwise from dovetail or perception of it and can confirm that this was 100 percent maintained.

    Matt
     
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  40. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    My TSC routes on UKTS are:
    Vale Of Rheidol
    Tanigumi Tram Line
    Sulitjelma Railway
    Heartbeat Moor (thinly disguised NYMR)
    Far North from Wick to Thurso
    Bell to Lithgow and ZigZag Railway

    From the top (and not including custom assets e.g. station nameboards etc created by myself)...
    VOR- referenced considerably the old Phorum Peninsula which was removed from sale by DTG so the route will be withdrawn - get it before 30/09 if you want it.
    Tanigumi - also referenced assets from "PP", various freeware items from the UKTS library which will vanish with the route and some Marc Nelson 3D Trains items which I think also now may be impossible to get. The route will be withdrawn.
    Sulitjelma - referenced the original RSDL hogweed and rosebay assets subsequently hosted at UKTS. Outside chance I might rework this but in any event a fairly recent version I did for Trainz is on the N3V DLS.
    Heartbeat Moor - Could be redone for Workshop but I do believe it may have been superceded by a "proper" freeware version of the NYMR. So as things stand, withdrawn but with the possibility of a revival.
    Far North - This was a very old route built in RS and used the free foliage packs which I believe were moved to UKTS. This route will be withdrawn.
    Bell to Lithgow - Another one with "PP" dependencies, unlikely to be reworked so at the moment will declare, the route will be withdrawn.

    I've also got some routes on Trainsim.com which require UKTS assets - Whiteman Park (also a "PP" victim) and Blackpool Tramway (PP and UKTS assets). They will be left in place but with no guarantee they will work.

    Obviously nothing is set in stone and I will be considering the options. Much will depend on whether the current Project Manager/Director for TSC (sorry for ping DTG Matt - but who is that?) is prepared to relax the Workshop hosting restrictions. I may well look at redoing some or all of the routes in Trainz. It's a shame to lose them but bearing in mind the youngest route is 12 years old they have in most respects long been fired and forgotten.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2023
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  41. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    All these years later and I'm still annoyed they withdrew Phorum Peninsula...
     
  42. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Some of the assets re-appeared in the Corris Railway "essay" but only the narrow gauge not the tram stuff and I think used a different provider folder/path.
     
  43. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    Ooh, one of the ‘missing links’ in the Scottish network!

    Good on you for making that. Shame as you say it’s an old route.
     
  44. torfmeister

    torfmeister Guest

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  45. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    I know. However, while the graphical upgrades for the LT Heritage Collection make it among the prettiest routes in TS, the original had much more variety, with a small tram network and two narrow gauge lines, both of which are rarities when it comes to DTG. A lot of good DLCs from the old days of TS have been withdrawn for seemingly no reason, such as the Up The Junction pack which to this day still has DTG's only Australian and Dutch content, with an Australian route and Victorian Railways F Class, and the Class 11s (?) exported to Holland. It also came with British shunters that never reappeared, like the Class 13 with its cow-and-calf setup (one of the most unique trains in TS) and the original designs like the LMS Class 11.
     
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  46. torfmeister

    torfmeister Guest

    Thanks OldVern
    Just downloaded your routes... enjoying Sulitjelma :)

    33.png

    Or as it appeared in 2010 (DynLights off)
    44.png

    There's something I love about this little route, very atmospheric...
    66.png
    77.png

    Folks, get your Premium sub now and support UKTS. Three bucks a month is absolutely affordable...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 22, 2023
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  47. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to download all those routes once I get premium, I have played some of OldVern's stuff before and I remember enjoying it.
     
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  48. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the screenshots and kind words about Sulitjelma. Think if there is one route I might try to keep and place elsewhere for hosting, it's probably this one. Even though it's a fictional adaptation of a long closed northern Norway narrow gauge line, it really would be a shame to lose it.

    I'll see what I can do either in terms of putting it at Trainsim.com or strip out the third party non DLC assets so it can go on the Workshop.

    What we need in TSC is the equivalent of the Trainz bulk delete/replace asset feature so you can quickly make the required changes.
     
  49. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    After a bit of thought, executive decision here, I am going to try and salvage all these routes and try to rework such as they can go on Steam Workshop, which seems the only secure repository rather than use another file library.

    I'm assuming here, and looking for a bit of guidance here, that RW Tools will identify what assets have been used from a particular provider? Will it also allow a global delete or replacement of said assets?

    I will start with Sulitjelma, probably Tanigumi next as I can swap out the PP tram etc. assets and third party items from Hamburg or one of the other German urban routes. Far North then, although my Wick station will be replaced by one of the generics and lose the overall roof. But it's better than losing all my work.

    Think half full, not half empty.
     
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  50. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Looking at Sulitjelma readme, now I've downloaded my own route(!) this is definitely the low hanging fruit one. Apart from the RSDL/UKTS Rosebay and Hogweed the only other third party assets are my own - station signs and the odd building. Time to get spinning...
     
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