Alright then, if you want to be pedantic. The layers on BML are there for scenery more than to be driven. They're miniscule in number compared to the amount of Electrostar services. SEHS meanwhile has a comparatively even mix between services with the 395, 375, 465 and soon the 700.
I completely agree with this, I think it’s great the 700 is going to be at least on SEHS and also think it’s crucial that it’s on here. Not only now do we have pretty much all the trains that run on the route in real life (minus a couple) but like you say you’ll be able to take the 700 from dartford to rainham, then take the same one back as far as dartford which I think is pretty nice. Now Dtg aren’t stupid, they know that this is also a must train for bml, but going forward I don’t want to see any services/layers taken out just to put the 700 in, that’s taking the immersion out in my opinion. We want to fill routes up with variety and volume to create that authentic feel. I think they need to find a way to simply add the extra layers and make it work, not start removing and replacing… that’s taking a step back in my opinion. Also regarding someone’s comment about replacing the southeastern services with the 700, the southeastern services I think are just as crucial to bml as well even if they are just ai. They’re a massive part of Victoria and serve a huge chunk in the london area so I don’t think we should start hoping for layers to be taken out/replaced
Think we all, including myself, just need to give it a rest now. Will find out more tomorrow, one more day. Think a lot of us will be disappointed but that’s all that it is. Life could be worse.
Completely agree. I love all the layers that BML has, but am willing to lose some of the less integral ones in order to make way for the class 700.
I don't think a 390 to Blackpool - Preston would add much myself, but I don't see any hypocrisy in wanting a 700 for BML & a 390 for B-P. People aren't saying they don't SEHS to have a 700 because its only 40 minutes. They are saying that they aren't going to spend over £11.99 for a train which will only run for 40 minutes on a line which they might not enjoy as much as BML. For alot of people, like myself, BML is the route they play the most, and would love a 700 for it. I won't be able to justify £11.99+ for it if it doesn't come to BML, because I won't get £11.99's worth of content from it.
Proportionately if the amount of services missing from BML were missing from any other route there would be many complaints. Many stations of BML don't have any trains stopping at them. I am sure this class 700 will only be for SEHS and may make an appearance on a new route so I don't suspect it will be used on BML. I think the most we can hope for is that it will form the basis for a future class 700/1 for an updated BML, similar to the treatment meted out to Boston Sprinter. I would rather have a class 700 for BML than the not totally realistic layers which don't add that much.
Since they announced that the 700 would be coming in the summer, I was thinking it was a move by them, as in addition to leaving for SEHS it could be leaving for a developing route. By the way, BML without 700 is not BML. I imagine they will be added to the route along with an improvement package...
Yes, but it's not the community's fault either though! It's DTG who have chosen the 700 as their brand-new loco DLC for TSW - it's not unrealistic expectations for the community to want it for London Commuter all things considering. Upset? No, it's just a video game, but of course I'd be disappointed nonetheless because why bother with this DLC then if just for SEHS...
Disappointing news. Though, as the /0 does serve the BML, even just a few Brighton-Bedford services alone for London Commuter would be realistic with the /0 as per reality and better than nothing if it means having to possibly wait for the /1. Even without the 700, the idea of London Commuter - considering its popularity and best timetable in TSW - to not yet have a TOD 4 upgrade is frustrating nonetheless considering fellow Rush Hour route Boston got such, as well as Sherman Hill etc.
Very disheartened that the 700 isn’t coming to BML. Guess the lacklustre scenario planner will have to suffice.
Disheartening indeed. Doesn't help with TOD4 either. The focus for BML seems to be on "rush hour passengers", which tbh i've never been able to tell which routes have them and which don't. You'd think a new, drivable trainset, and lighting upgradesd would be a higher priority, but clearly not.
MML South is not a 'midland' route. It runs in Bedfordshire, Hertfordshire and London, nowhere near the midlands. If anything, the new steam route is another midland route.
Thats sad news, hopefully the currently not planned changes somehow when Joethefish has too much spare time Will drastically increase my workload for scenarios though once it releases, but unfortunatly i dont think it has all proper Thameslink Paths, i dont recall Balcombe being in there at all, the Gatwick-ECR Path via the unused stations is there though.
Im not from the UK, but i wouldnt call MML south a route in the Midlands, its literally the north of London and a few miles onwards.
The only positive I can conclude from such is that they chose to brand this DLC as a '700/0' rather than just a '700' - obviously the main reason most likely due to the 8- vs 12-car variants. But, then again, I still feel a bit optimistic for a /1, although the thought of it being years away, if at all, is still a main worry too nonetheless.
I already have Rush hour passengers via a PC mod, it really didn't make any performance difference. For me BML is officially abandoned, like most other routes.
Thank you for even having this thread though, hopefully it shows DTG how much enthusiasm the community has for the 700 and London Commuter. I hope DTG can reconsider such decision though considering the popularity - I mean how many suggestions for the 700 just included it for SEHS?
Dtg has said optimizations need to be made for it to be playable with anything. So you can have tod4 but possibly it comes with massive crashing if dtg implemented it in its current state. Remember it also has to be done for last gen and lower end pc users. They might not be able to run bml with tod4 enabled or rush hour passengers cuz it would just crash.
So the East Coast Mainline South out of London King's Cross to Peterborough is along the East Coast is it? Just because it's called the Midland Mainline doesn't mean it's all in the midlands!
I think the only way to “petition” the 700 on BML now is not to buy any further content. Next I get will probably be a summer release. I’ve said previously a 700 would be a day one purchase but this was on the understanding it would be released on BML. Always been a supporter of DTG and still am but this is hugely disappointing and you have to ask if they truly listen to their customers…it’s not hard to choose the next DLC when people are telling you what they want.
You might want to read the section of the Roadmap where Steve explains how content is chosen. It involves rather more than "what some Forum posters say they want." BML cannot have anything added to the timetable for the foreseeable future. And we have known the 700 was for SEHS, not BML, practically since the first leak. So now you are going to boycott DTG for not doing something they never said they were going to so???
No I’m not, I’ve said I’m not going to buy anything until the summer. I’m also well aware of how routes are chosen but most of the time, it’s not top of what customers want in general terms. I get that it’s not always possible but some routes are nowhere near what people want. I’ve had the game since its original release and most people would expect some part of ECML by now as an example. I don’t expect people nor am I calling for people to boycott the game, just something I personally will do, until the next core release/summer release, fair I think?
I would like to see the Class 700 appear on BML at some point, but keep in mind DTG likely hasn't found the time to implement and test everything necessary to make it happen with all the other stuff they are currently working on. Give it time and hopefully if the new route turns out to be ECML South, we might just get a Class 700/1 thrown in with a bonus layer for BML.
This I agree with, very positive thinking and I’m hoping for that myself. As you’ve said though, “Hopefully”.
The Midland Main Line was built by the Midland Railway Company (cf Great Western Main Line), with headquarters at Derby. It was merged with the LNWR, L&Y and several smaller lines to form the LMS in the 1923 grouping.
So you are telling me that there is not a single Thameslink service being substituted by a South Eastern service?
As much as we'd like a version of the 700 on BML, remember that Joe spent months researching building and testing the existing service mode in BML as a labour of love project. To add the TL services would, I imagine, be another couple of months of work, and the dispatcher would fall apart trying to unknot East Croydon. The layers that some people are suggesting be removed to make way aren't even in the gen8 version are they? You can't remove what's not already there.
Yes, the SE layer is a diversion layer, made up of a realistic service pattern ran by SE. And before someone jumps on this saying just delete the layer, you’d also be removing the SE layer at VIC, which is quite important. I did think the same back when DTG were discussing this, to which I asked Joe later on & he clarified that there was just space inside the existing timetable to slot a new one in, they’d still need to do the routing & timetable.
I would happily pay for a re-release of BML updated with the TSW3 skybox and with Class 700 services added, if that's what the business case needs for the amount of work required.
Despite the current DTG position on the 700 on BML, we should keep pressing if that is what we want. I understand the current dispatcher design may not be able to handle more services on the BML. But if Steve Jobs listened to every "cannot" he got from his engineering team, there would be no iPhone. When there's a will, there's a way, and a loud customer demand will open the door.
Absolutely agree with you both. I surely couldn't imagine DTG's logic of finally having decided on the much-requested 700 for TSW if they couldn't/wouldn't have it for London Commuter at all - the train's real-life home route of all things! I get certain arguments that optimisation, timetable updates (especially for London Commuter's) and any potential TOD 4 upgrade would take time a lot of work - but I'd certainly have this instead of a brand-new route, especially considering there has been many new routes lately anyway. I do remain optimistic though and hopeful for a /1 which would be key - obviously they (hopefully) can't have this as another separate DLC loco when there's already the /0, but, if the /1 came with a brand-new TOD 4 version of London Commuter, then that I think would be fair. The whole idea of London Commuter never getting TOD 4 (even without the 700) just seems really odd considering its popularity regardless.
I suspect the new UK route will have the 700/1 that will layer into the BML which would also get an update. Speculation of coarse. I don’t see DTG making one of the most requested loco (EMU) just to release it for one route (SEHS). It will probably be similar to what was done with the Acela but with more since the 700 is in numerous routes
You are correct and if they were to add the existing Class 700/0 to BML then you get access to Three Bridges TMD where they are maintained alongside 700/1. Also the ability to run Brighton Bedford services via Gatwick and Luton Airports.
The Class 700 also does run on the sehs section from Rainham to Dartford as well. I'm not sure why only including it there is a problem. DTG have never promised that a 700 would be a dlc for London-Brighton. BML can be quite unstable and for those that will say, "I never had a crash", wouldn't you think the reason why dtg aren't adding a 700 to bml is due to potential game stability issues especially given the issues of this route particularly on current and last gen consoles when the route originally came out along with lower end pc's? It seems DTG are playing it safe. Also wouldn't it be better if they made a standalone route down the line in which you can do a full line run rather than giving up your train in the middle of the line as is common with so many tsw routes?
It is really disappointing that the TL 700/1 aren't going to make it to BML, which is by far one of the most popular routes and the aforementioned DLC is the most asked content for this route. I do really hope that Dovetail Games sort the memory issue of old gen consoles or make the DLC exclusive to PC & next gen consoles. BML does deserve updates considering the sheer number of people who still run the route consisting of a major part in the community.
my theory is that the 700 will layer onto the new uk route (i speculate ecml south) which would then come with the /1 variant too, seen similarly with the acela and new usa routes. Then as this would probably be a summer release we could see what happened with us content, a huge bundle with upgraded BML, New Uk route and Class 700 all as one. once again, just a speculation but i feel it could just happen with any luck
There's certainly no complaint of having the 700 with SEHS because it's realistic - the same principle applies for London Commuter, accept having a modern BML without the 700 is, conversely, very unrealistic. Of course, I understand from DTG's point of view that they never promised a 700 for BML but you can surely understand the many frustrations of the community when they finally announce the 700 to TSW, but not for London Commuter - it doesn't make any logical sense. It would be like having the Acela just for NY-Trenton but not for Boston too. Why should the Acela be in two TSW routes it serves in real life, yet not the same for the 700? Fair enough memory optimisation etc, but it would at least be nice if DTG said they would consider such considering both the popularity of London Commuter and the 700 - this very petition thread for the 700 with London Commuter has 41 likes at the time of writing.
The acela can be in two routes because those routes don't have memory stability problems. London commuter has had issues with memory and it seems DTG don't want to take a risk. The same people that are asking for the 700 to bml would probably complain if the route starting crashing. It's frankly better to have the ability to at least play with the Class 700 rather than not having it at all. I get why there are many that want it to be in bml but it's just not in the cards at this time
Not having any real love for modern trains (apart from maybe the new TfW Flirts) doesn’t bother me one way or t’other. However in terms of petitions, have to relate mine regarding pushing the Peak Forest route south to Derby went nowhere, despite a majority result in favour. At times DTG can be a little bit arrogant and a little intransigent.
