I used to live in Horsham so seeing my old hometown recreated in TSW3 in addition to the 700 being added and updated to TOD4 would be great!
I think that if the 700 was only ever going to appear on SEHS (speculation about a future ECML aside), then I'd have preferred it if they at least waited like a year until unveiling it. DTG have been throwing add ons at SEHS ever since TSW3 came out while other routes which need new add ons more have been left alone. The 700 is far more integral to BML than SEHS. Not only would I happily see the 313, HST and 09 axed to make way for it, I'd also be willing to sacrifice the Southeastern layers. Victoria is still busy enough without it, and it won't be anywhere near as dead as Birmingham New Street or Edinburgh Waverley is now. It's not a matter of me getting angry at DTG, it's just disappointment at a missed opportunity. There's already plenty of variety on SEHS. BML only has Electrostars. It would transform BML, but it's just another commuter train on SEHS.
Spot on and down the road I can see this happening the class 700 DLC teasing a Nahverkehr Dresden DB Baureihe 411 ICE-T which means they can sell a rush hour train Pack for the same price as a expansion pack we have in game
This thread is getting bizarre. “Let’s cut every other layer just to get a 700 in” “I don’t want to see the 700 unless it’s on BML” These sentiments coming from the same people are the exact reason DTG will never win regardless of what they do. How you can want a train so bad you’d sacrifice everything else to see it, but then at the same time say you wouldn’t want to see it unless it’s only on one specific route, it’s fascinating. Id almost understand it if it was only going to run a short while on SEHS, but each journey is like 40 minutes in one direction, and you with every other service you could stay in it at Rainham then take it back to Dartford meaning you get an 80 minute run time at least. I’m also pretty sure that I’ve seen some of the same people making the same statements were recommending the 390 for the Blackpool - Preston route. It’s just mind boggling.
In my opinion no layer / current services of bml should be sacrified across all high end platforms. Thats absolute nogo. Not running on gen8? Remove them on gen8... Tsw starts to increase the amount of variety of rolling stock on many routes now. 2 years back deep in the time of empty train stations, and knowing this hobby was gonna get expensive as somebody buys ususlly all dlcs, there was really only one platform to choose when looking into the future. Now i can say: happy i can use all the mods, enjoy a smooth experience, glad not being annoyed by a 64gb dlc limit..., variety with tsw will grow more and more, so the hardware needs to be up to date for whats comming with tsw.
Alright then, if you want to be pedantic. The layers on BML are there for scenery more than to be driven. They're miniscule in number compared to the amount of Electrostar services. SEHS meanwhile has a comparatively even mix between services with the 395, 375, 465 and soon the 700.
I completely agree with this, I think it’s great the 700 is going to be at least on SEHS and also think it’s crucial that it’s on here. Not only now do we have pretty much all the trains that run on the route in real life (minus a couple) but like you say you’ll be able to take the 700 from dartford to rainham, then take the same one back as far as dartford which I think is pretty nice. Now Dtg aren’t stupid, they know that this is also a must train for bml, but going forward I don’t want to see any services/layers taken out just to put the 700 in, that’s taking the immersion out in my opinion. We want to fill routes up with variety and volume to create that authentic feel. I think they need to find a way to simply add the extra layers and make it work, not start removing and replacing… that’s taking a step back in my opinion. Also regarding someone’s comment about replacing the southeastern services with the 700, the southeastern services I think are just as crucial to bml as well even if they are just ai. They’re a massive part of Victoria and serve a huge chunk in the london area so I don’t think we should start hoping for layers to be taken out/replaced
Think we all, including myself, just need to give it a rest now. Will find out more tomorrow, one more day. Think a lot of us will be disappointed but that’s all that it is. Life could be worse.
Completely agree. I love all the layers that BML has, but am willing to lose some of the less integral ones in order to make way for the class 700.
I don't think a 390 to Blackpool - Preston would add much myself, but I don't see any hypocrisy in wanting a 700 for BML & a 390 for B-P. People aren't saying they don't SEHS to have a 700 because its only 40 minutes. They are saying that they aren't going to spend over £11.99 for a train which will only run for 40 minutes on a line which they might not enjoy as much as BML. For alot of people, like myself, BML is the route they play the most, and would love a 700 for it. I won't be able to justify £11.99+ for it if it doesn't come to BML, because I won't get £11.99's worth of content from it.
I never once said I wouldnt buy it just on SEHS, just I'm not going to spend £12 for the privilege. As for removing layers, if it was a choice between no 700 or a 700 and no AI only HST and no SE trains "on division' I'd prefer the 700, at least it's prototypical. Unlike the other 2 layers.
Proportionately if the amount of services missing from BML were missing from any other route there would be many complaints. Many stations of BML don't have any trains stopping at them. I am sure this class 700 will only be for SEHS and may make an appearance on a new route so I don't suspect it will be used on BML. I think the most we can hope for is that it will form the basis for a future class 700/1 for an updated BML, similar to the treatment meted out to Boston Sprinter. I would rather have a class 700 for BML than the not totally realistic layers which don't add that much.
Since they announced that the 700 would be coming in the summer, I was thinking it was a move by them, as in addition to leaving for SEHS it could be leaving for a developing route. By the way, BML without 700 is not BML. I imagine they will be added to the route along with an improvement package...
Yes, but it's not the community's fault either though! It's DTG who have chosen the 700 as their brand-new loco DLC for TSW - it's not unrealistic expectations for the community to want it for London Commuter all things considering. Upset? No, it's just a video game, but of course I'd be disappointed nonetheless because why bother with this DLC then if just for SEHS...
Disappointing news. Though, as the /0 does serve the BML, even just a few Brighton-Bedford services alone for London Commuter would be realistic with the /0 as per reality and better than nothing if it means having to possibly wait for the /1. Even without the 700, the idea of London Commuter - considering its popularity and best timetable in TSW - to not yet have a TOD 4 upgrade is frustrating nonetheless considering fellow Rush Hour route Boston got such, as well as Sherman Hill etc.
Ive no doubt that the 700 will layer in to the new AC route on the roadmap. London Commuter it seems relegated to abandonware.
Very disheartened that the 700 isn’t coming to BML. Guess the lacklustre scenario planner will have to suffice.
Disheartening indeed. Doesn't help with TOD4 either. The focus for BML seems to be on "rush hour passengers", which tbh i've never been able to tell which routes have them and which don't. You'd think a new, drivable trainset, and lighting upgradesd would be a higher priority, but clearly not.
MML South is not a 'midland' route. It runs in Bedfordshire, Hertfordshire and London, nowhere near the midlands. If anything, the new steam route is another midland route.
Thats sad news, hopefully the currently not planned changes somehow when Joethefish has too much spare time Will drastically increase my workload for scenarios though once it releases, but unfortunatly i dont think it has all proper Thameslink Paths, i dont recall Balcombe being in there at all, the Gatwick-ECR Path via the unused stations is there though.
Im not from the UK, but i wouldnt call MML south a route in the Midlands, its literally the north of London and a few miles onwards.
The only positive I can conclude from such is that they chose to brand this DLC as a '700/0' rather than just a '700' - obviously the main reason most likely due to the 8- vs 12-car variants. But, then again, I still feel a bit optimistic for a /1, although the thought of it being years away, if at all, is still a main worry too nonetheless.
I already have Rush hour passengers via a PC mod, it really didn't make any performance difference. For me BML is officially abandoned, like most other routes.
Thank you for even having this thread though, hopefully it shows DTG how much enthusiasm the community has for the 700 and London Commuter. I hope DTG can reconsider such decision though considering the popularity - I mean how many suggestions for the 700 just included it for SEHS?
Dtg has said optimizations need to be made for it to be playable with anything. So you can have tod4 but possibly it comes with massive crashing if dtg implemented it in its current state. Remember it also has to be done for last gen and lower end pc users. They might not be able to run bml with tod4 enabled or rush hour passengers cuz it would just crash.
So the East Coast Mainline South out of London King's Cross to Peterborough is along the East Coast is it? Just because it's called the Midland Mainline doesn't mean it's all in the midlands!
I think the only way to “petition” the 700 on BML now is not to buy any further content. Next I get will probably be a summer release. I’ve said previously a 700 would be a day one purchase but this was on the understanding it would be released on BML. Always been a supporter of DTG and still am but this is hugely disappointing and you have to ask if they truly listen to their customers…it’s not hard to choose the next DLC when people are telling you what they want.
You might want to read the section of the Roadmap where Steve explains how content is chosen. It involves rather more than "what some Forum posters say they want." BML cannot have anything added to the timetable for the foreseeable future. And we have known the 700 was for SEHS, not BML, practically since the first leak. So now you are going to boycott DTG for not doing something they never said they were going to so???
No I’m not, I’ve said I’m not going to buy anything until the summer. I’m also well aware of how routes are chosen but most of the time, it’s not top of what customers want in general terms. I get that it’s not always possible but some routes are nowhere near what people want. I’ve had the game since its original release and most people would expect some part of ECML by now as an example. I don’t expect people nor am I calling for people to boycott the game, just something I personally will do, until the next core release/summer release, fair I think?
I would like to see the Class 700 appear on BML at some point, but keep in mind DTG likely hasn't found the time to implement and test everything necessary to make it happen with all the other stuff they are currently working on. Give it time and hopefully if the new route turns out to be ECML South, we might just get a Class 700/1 thrown in with a bonus layer for BML.
This I agree with, very positive thinking and I’m hoping for that myself. As you’ve said though, “Hopefully”.
Why would they give us a 700/0 and a 700/1 as part of the same DLC, when they can sell it to us twice separately?
The Midland Main Line was built by the Midland Railway Company (cf Great Western Main Line), with headquarters at Derby. It was merged with the LNWR, L&Y and several smaller lines to form the LMS in the 1923 grouping.
So you are telling me that there is not a single Thameslink service being substituted by a South Eastern service?
As much as we'd like a version of the 700 on BML, remember that Joe spent months researching building and testing the existing service mode in BML as a labour of love project. To add the TL services would, I imagine, be another couple of months of work, and the dispatcher would fall apart trying to unknot East Croydon. The layers that some people are suggesting be removed to make way aren't even in the gen8 version are they? You can't remove what's not already there.
Yes, the SE layer is a diversion layer, made up of a realistic service pattern ran by SE. And before someone jumps on this saying just delete the layer, you’d also be removing the SE layer at VIC, which is quite important. I did think the same back when DTG were discussing this, to which I asked Joe later on & he clarified that there was just space inside the existing timetable to slot a new one in, they’d still need to do the routing & timetable.
I would happily pay for a re-release of BML updated with the TSW3 skybox and with Class 700 services added, if that's what the business case needs for the amount of work required.
Despite the current DTG position on the 700 on BML, we should keep pressing if that is what we want. I understand the current dispatcher design may not be able to handle more services on the BML. But if Steve Jobs listened to every "cannot" he got from his engineering team, there would be no iPhone. When there's a will, there's a way, and a loud customer demand will open the door.
