Midland Mainline - Leicester To Derby & Nottingham

Not true for Sony (Play has no limits and all that). On PlayStation, you can only request a refund if you’ve never downloaded the DLC. Touch the download button and you cannot ever get a refund.

That was also why Cyberpunk 2077 was pulled from the store. It was never about the game being too bug-ridden as some idealistic voices presented it. CDPR’s promise of unconditional refunds was simply a gross violation of Sony’s TOS and therefore the plug was pulled before CDPR could do more damage to Sony’s numbers.

 

Lots of views on this thread, but have really enjoyed the few runs I’ve done tonight in both the HST and 158… great sound implementation and looks fantastic; on the PS5 and apparently some issues for this platform, but nothing jumping out for me… just really enjoying it

 

Only got to do one run so far- from Nottingham-Leicester in the 158.

The 158 is great IMO- looks and sounds brilliant and is fun to drive. Only negative is the weird reflections on the windscreen, which has been mentioned previously.

The timetable did seem quite bare- it was one of the earliest runs of the day (0545?), but the only AI i saw was the Class 66 railtour, which i briefly caught up to at Loughborough, and the ROG 37 closer to Leicester. Btw, those are some early-rising tourists lol!

I don't know the area IRL, but the scenery was convincing- the power plant is quite impressive......but we can't go there for....why exactly?

Anyway, the overall route is good IMO, but i'd really like to hear about plans to fill out the timetable. Is there a logical loco DLC? Can more freight services be added?

 

Nice to see DTG has had yet another successful release.

Getting really really fed up of this crapola and the silence, or positive slants or really poor excuses why something hasn’t been/can’t be fixed. Another route I was interested in destined to never be purchased. What the hell is going on? This is worse than amateur hour.

 

The problem is that DTG have us over a barrel a little bit - I want the HST/158/MML in an immersive train sim, and they're the only ones that can do it. This is (likely) the only chance to get that, which is why the feeling, so often, is of missed opportunity: this could be a great, dense, and immersive route, but they've not taken that chance - and you could say similar for so many addons. What's worse is they've shown it can be done: when creativity is put into the timetables (Dresden, SEHS), the experience is so much better, and the enthusiasts on DTG know this, but this contrasts with so many routes which have the sense of "if only...".

Maybe the solution is for DTG to open source the timetable editor - let us have a go. That, combined with livery editor, would allow us, the community, to bring so many routes to life, and to bridge these gaps.

 

158 is the only bright spot of this DLC

 

It just bewilders me how a release stream is so positive and everything is wow, great, amazing (some of the stuff that was wow, great amazing was peculiar to be fair) and then as soon as its in people's hands stuff is picked up straight away.


If most of the bugs have been picked up, fix them and then release the route, I'm actually lost what is to be fixed now as they keep lunebering more and more on the to do list.

Respectfully now, I think the wrong people are doing the preview streams, I think the streams feel like snake oil sales pitches.

Nothing is challenged, bugs that people call out like wildfire in streams are not acknowledged (almost feels like easier to stay on script). These preview streams really need someone who is going To sit there and say

" why is this like that"
"when will it be patched"

It feels like there is no accountability on the streams, I get they're promotional streams but in some ways they no longer represent the product you get (evident here as such a gap between the jolly stream and how route been received).

I think skyhook personally have done a good job and there was some lovely bits I saw and heard in the hour I had with it BUT something has gone wrong here and I'd suggest it tracks back to accountants requirements for acceptable Dev time allocations

 

Am I the only one seeing the problem with the lighting in all but one of these images? The way the train is lit is all wrong, it doesn’t fit in it’s surrounding environment properly. It’s almost like it’s emitting it’s own light, or is being lit independently of the environment.

 

Just to add, hst recovery after emergency brake seems to be bugged. I couldn't get it going again.

 

Anyone else have problem unlocking the mastery? I have finished tier2 and still not up there

 

Here it is in TVL lighting

 

20 out of 25 as of today are negative reviews, that's an 80% negative review rate. I hope if ECML is made there's some real discussion arounds when to hit a release button. I think WCML, MML, and ECML theres an expectation they all release better and equally complete as BML. Anything less is going to end up like this unfortunately i fear.

 

Guys (and girls)...

Please note:
This is the same as always. A buggy substandard DLC gets released and most of you bought it (again).

What will now happen is this:
Fixed get promised but most bugs will never get fixed.
And
New DLC will be *leaked* and announced soon and you will forget about this buggy DLC and get all hyped up again

 

I really like the sounds. Having the 158 in the game is great, it opens up lots of possibilities.

There's the usual bugs:
PIS issues on the platforms and on the 158.

It's been a long time since I have been on a 158, but I believe the destination display font used is not correct?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...Street_railway_station_(geograph_3819385).jpg

Passengers standing infront of the door to the cab.
Route could do with being slightly longer - there's stil the sense of incompleteness, when I reach Nottingham, Derby or Leicester I feel like I want to explore a bit further.

I think a 170 would be a good addition to plug the gaps in the timetable.

 

156/222 would be more apt as this is an EMT route.

Happy to stand corrected but I think EMR took on 170's and stood down the HST's..

 

It does seem when the price went up, the quality went down. Almost as if, someone decided if we slap a £30 price tag on it the mugs (sorry, customers) will assume well it must be good…

At the risk of repeating myself, there is a certain irony that when the big five releases were announced I was having kittens over justifying that expenditure to Mrs Vern, now here we are and only one out of five - given PF is still an unknown quantity- actually half decent and I’m buying TSC stuff instead. Probably West Balkans for ETS2 also.

TSW department at DTG needs a massive shake up, whether personnel, work ethic or both.

In the meantime, I suggest if they want to extract something from the mess, abstract the 158, reskin the exterior and interior into original BR Regional Railways colours and sell it as a traction DLC for WCL and NTP.

 

Exit the game and load it again so it refreshes the unlocked masteries.

 

I had this last night, could not get the train going again. I'm on ps5

 

Thanks for the advice, but seems not working for me，its like the mastery for Iow 2021, bugged maybe?

 

Haven't yet pulled the trigger on this yet, which is weird because I initially thought it would be a no brainer for me.
Just watching TrainsimTVs video on this route, it looks nice, but what's putting me off slightly is the lack of activity...looks like a green light fest.
Also noticed the signalling is a bit iffy which is a big downer for me. In Tom's video, he is signalled from a 70 to a 25mph turnout with no decent approach control (just one double yellow to a green with feather) just north of E Mids parkway.... doesn't look realistic to me. Would most likely be approach from red, or at least flashing yellows?
And I still have no idea why DTG can't create a decent looking speed sign set for UK routes! The German routes have excellent looking ones, with correct typeface.

 

Yes, same. Overshot EMP on my first run, hit the emergency brakes, couldn't go again.

 

Why can't DTG/SHG send a staff member to watch some of the streamers reviews on YouTube and get a list compiled of bugs and then at least have a go and putting a massive fix in to the route. The amount of different streams I have watched that show many different bugs, would really benefit fixing this promptly.

 

They are probably too busy checking if the initial sales have covered the costs and expected profit margin…

However it’s a bit poor there’s not been a peep on this thread from Skyhook, DTG or even the “ambassadors”, whose input should surely go both ways when there is such strong criticism, to apologise and give an assurance that the concerns are being looked at and maybe for once explain why the decision was taken to go ahead with the release in this state.

 

Having issues with the HST braking near EMP, couldn't get it moving again, sure there was a parking brake light on. Happened twice so far.

 

The two Ambassador videos I watched were less than helpful. They did point out the negative stuff but one of them said "I'm trying to be nice about the route" and the other was going on about "this is a pre release build I'm sure it'll all be fixed for release" which as it turns out it isn't.

 

At £30 a go TSW DLC is not cheap.

I’ve seen people in the forums say, ‘what do you expect for £30?’.

Well, I personally expect a polished product. I don’t expect every bug to be squished (that’s unrealistic), but having so many issues reported, many within minutes of a release, is absolutely unacceptable.

I’ve seen people in the forums say that DTG is only a small developer and we can’t expect too much.

Sorry, but that’s LOVE. If DTG does not have the capability to release a polished product, it might as well shut itself down. We have had much more for less money in the past. I really do believe now that DTG see us as mindless sheep, buying up DLC after DLC because we have no other choice. They are definitely taking the piss. Unfortunately, we are enabling this greedy, half-arsed approach they seem set on taking by buying the DLC. I’m guilty of this as much as anyone else, but it needs to stop.

Something is going to give sooner or later and DTG will come to seriously regret it, that’s if they even care.

 

The Ambassadors are only interested in free stuff. They’re a waste of time. I avoid their videos at all costs and have unsubscribed from any I was ever subscribed to.

 

Anyone having difficulty with getting the brakes off the HST after a emergency brake application. I found out if you just pump the brake from off to step 4 a few times then you’ll get brake release.

 

I'm watching that very video now lol. I've wanted the 158 in TSW for so long. Yet instead of purchasing with confidence, the overall experience of a new DLC release is completely diminished by the fact I instead find myself sifting through reviews from multiple sources trying to work out whether it's worth it or not.
Still have no idea whether I can justify spending my wages on this or not.
Torn because my heart says the 158 itself seems well received but my head says wait until it's included with a different (better) route.

 

Apart from the mis labelled door controls and passengers blocking the cab door oh and the odd reflection in the cab windscreen.

I think one thing these recent debacles have shown, is that DTG are struggling to get talented people on board to create content - certainly not to a standard that justifies a £30 price tag. High time then they opened up the route building and train/rolling stock asset production with free to use editors. That will encourage people to get on board and who knows, maybe discover the next Keith Ross or similar who have the moxie and dedication to jump across from freeware to making paid DLC. Or is it that they are frightened open access editing will quickly show up what a poor job the in house and associate teams are doing?

 

After emergency stop, I put reverser into neutral and then back into forward, then released the train brake, then waited until brake cylinder showed 0.0

 

Both locos seem functional to drive and easy to drive; the timetable does not feel rushed; the scenery sort of reminds me of Horseshoe Curve, a little washed out during daytime. Passenger behavior is a bit weird. Otherwise a no better and no worse Route than previous ones. It's not on a par with Cathcart Circle or Southeastern High Speed, but it's not terrible.

 

My gripe is a different button to cancel the vigilance alarm..and you need to press the floor or the Aws cancel. I can't even find the AWS..Does it work.

 

for me I was doing an early morning Derby to Leicester service and just about 7 miles from Leicester the emergency brakes applied for no reason and could not get the hst moving again. Also I did a Leicester to Nottingham service, when the service ended i went into free roam, got out of the hst onto Nottingham platform and walked a little and the game crashed. Also saw floating stop signs on the platform. When I was playing the route last night I was not very impressed, seems to be full of bugs and not worth £30.

 

I've got some mixed feelings about this route. The Class 158 is pretty good. But the route feels empty, with not enough trains (because of the lack of other operators) and not enough passengers. There seem to be some signaling errors and I also spotted an AWS magnet layed in the wrong direction. I even got two emergency brake applications in a row with the 158 before arriving at Nottingham ? It did not happen to me before on other British routes. Or maybe I did something wrong but I don't know what.

I think I'll stick with the older routes such as the NTP, TVL, or BML. They are well polished and lively.

As for TSW ... when I discovered TSW (with TSW 2) I first had good impressions and bought several DLCs (I have 38 of them today). The game was enjoyable. But times goes by and TSW 3 does not bring anything useful. Worse, some new bugs appeared on older routes such as some new PZB bugs on the S Bahn services on Munchen Augsburg. Well ...

One of the best simulator I played with was OMSI 2 (bus simulator) and it was only made by two people. The only downside was the dumb AI trafic but that's about all. With TSW there is a whole studio behind the game and DLCs and things seem to be difficult to sort out. I would prefer having fewer lines that gradually get updated and receive new content, rather than have new lines every months with little to no trafic and many bugs.

 

pretty disappointed that the testers hyped this so much and it's ended up like... this...

 

I think it is very important in these situations to see the distinction between bugs and things that are just wrong or caused by poor workmanship. I expect bugs but I shouldn’t have to put up with a lot of the other. I don’t like what I’m reading about this route but it is a Skyhook route and I bought previous Skyhook releases so I expected some of it. A big deal was made of pointing out that DTG did the sound and physics setup of the trains and they seem to be getting some positive comments but there shouldn’t be as much wrong with the route at release. I’m filtering out all the known quirks of TSW itself when evaluating this, so shadows on the rail ahead and things like that, but the other issues are too much for me.

I turned off the live preview stream last week because of two reasons. The bad reflections in the 158 windscreen and there were two people who by their own admission know nothing about trains or railway operations wittering on. Skyhook are relying heavily on the beta team for all their railway knowledge but that’s not enough for a quality release. The beta team don’t do anything for console releases and this has been yet another nightmare release on PS5. I’m not sure what can be done to improve the situation.

I have no idea what is going on with the timetable. Something is very odd about all those missing services. By all accounts they should be part of a repeating pattern throughout the day. Someone needs to explain what is going on with that.

Luckily there are now a couple of UK third party creators who do know a lot more about railways and also pride themselves on their quality output for TSC and aren’t just another software company so their releases may give us a better experience. Roll on ATS and JT.

 

But keep this forum open so you've somewhere to come every day, eh?

Seriously, comments like this are embarrassing. You are not forced to be here, not forced to play the product, not forced to have any single engagement or interaction with TSW and DTG, saying they should shut down because they don't make something you want? Absurd. Just play something else, join a forum for a dev you do like, encourage them, be happy, share your enjoyment, but coming to a forum and telling a company to shut down because there are bugs in their software? Ridiculous.

 

I bought this last night as I enjoy British trains and liked the opportunity for something different with some diesel powered equipment.

Now I’m not intimately familiar with the route so haven’t noticed the volumes of issues that others have but I quite enjoyed my first few runs. The scenery looks good, the rolling stock looks (and more importantly to me) sounds fantastic.

My two annoyances are the sparse timetables as others mentioned (though still lots to do) and the white reflections in the 158’s front window that remind me of eye floaters.

I definitely don’t regret my purchase, especially at 19% off using one of the “bundle” deals on steam in which this was the only item in the bundle that I didn’t already own. Please don’t change this DTG, it feels like a loyalty discount which is quite appropriate.

 

I didn’t say it should shut down. I said it might as well shut down if it isn’t capable of delivering what it is setting out to do. The number of people saying they won’t buy a DLC or getting a refund is up massively. There is only one reason for this, the quality of the DLC is not good enough. DTG has produced far better quality routes in the past. It can be done. Something somewhere is preventing that currently and it cannot be denied. You might be blind to the obvious - others aren’t.

 

Being a UK route I was quite tempted to preorder MML, but thankfully saved my cash. As has been repeated over the last couple of months by many players including myself, since TSW3 launch, product quality and customer satisfaction seem to be in free fall, and heading rapidly down the toilet, which does not bode well for the future. The release cadence vs quality of TSW DLC this year is proof that something is very badly wrong at Dovetail Towers, and I am loathe to keep throwing money away and feeding the machine.

Time perhaps to take a break from the franchise and play some of those TSC routes hardly (or never) touched, mess around some more with Derail Valley, Simrail, ETS2/ATS, finish Cyberpunk, play Hogwart’s Legacy etc.. Although I am mainly a PC player I also love my consoles and despite many pleas to DTG to fix the dreadful TSW3 Xbox audio and egregious PS5 performance optimisation, absolutely nothing is on the roadmap. C’mon guys, we love your game but enough is enough; listen to your customers!

 

Rebellion is something that needs to happen here. Go and scroll up, there's plenty of dissatisfaction. Maybe telling them to shut down can be harsh but there has to be a vast improvement, otherwise they will cause themselves to shut down due to poor sales of poor/sub standard quality DLC. Bear in mind there is consistency in the quality produced by DTG and Skyhook.

 

the reason why dtg get away with this is because there are people that no matter what will still defend their awful business practices

 

I am not defending dovetail and all third-party developers involved in TSW DLCs but you need to give them a bit of slack where it is due. As while these prices increase on routes haven't affected me much I can understand the need for it due to cost of living and the issues that may come as a result due to changes. Though there is no for routes of such bad quality due to bugs to be realised. Now I don't know what's going on with Skyhook but are they going to fix this route if not then they need to be stopped from making more TSW DLCs. I was going to get this route but due to bad reviews and justified criticisms I have chosen personally not to get any future DLC they release until someone in their management realises their products aren't to a satisfactory standard and shouldn't be release to the public. Us as a community can handle some bugs in routes as no route can be perfected but when we see these bugs thrown under the rug or forgotten when pressed about it on streams etc then we know it's not right. What I'm about to mentioned particularly is very irritating and is making me question there thought process but why delay a route if nothing was fixed. Like they did announce a while back it would be delayed due to these, they need to do but did they do those things or rush the route to the public without proper knowledge on the real-life route and what obvious bugs it has. Also, to end this off why and I mean why give us high hopes for a trash product that you asked people to say was brilliant when they were lying.

Important note
(Now sorry for going on a rant but this is my opinion on Skyhook, now before people start saying it's a attack which it is not. I've only called them out and have given honest criticism about what they released to us, but I haven't made this personal in any way due to personal ethics. Also by writing this post I've empty maybe half of my boiling steaming coffeepot (steam) rage and It is personally better to let it out all at once or in short annoying increments.)

 

Or, there are people who can manage to get enough enjoyment out of "x" despite (some) issues.
I think the point many people are missing here is what is a show stopper for some, isn't for others.
I've played plenty of routes where the "community" have been up in arms about, and played and enjoyed greatly.
I also think the term "bug" needs some clarification, now to me a bug is something which materially affects the product so much that I can't play it, things like "Guards button label wrong" I couldn't give a monkeys about, it wouldn't affect my enjoyment one bit.
What does baffle me is the amount of people who stick around, despite clearly not liking DTG, the game or any recent DLC, just to revel in the negativity, sure, bugs should be brought up and quashed, but some people are just gloating in any little problem, blows my mind that these people would waste so much energy on a product that they clearly dislike.

 

Agreed. I have loads of routes in TSC I have barely touched, shame on me. Probably enough to keep me going for years.
Derail Valley shows new promise with its simulator makeover, though really needs a new map or two to add variety.
I have mentioned SimRail elsewhere but maybe it is time to give it another try.
I really should spend more time in Diesel Railcar Simulator.
I'm also currently well into a fresh playthrough of Fallout 4, just off to rescue Nick Valentine from Skinny Malone!

 

Just checked to see how many threads are on this new route but Skyhook has sent a response (Midland Mainline - Skyhook Feedback | Dovetail Games Forums) and by the look of it is very confusing. Also It does seem very sugar-coated though here it is for easy access.

 

I don’t think DTG are near shutting down, that does take it to the extreme, the way they are now is the way they’ve always been for well over the last decade, and they’re still here.

The big difference here though is that TSW does not have the tools which TSC does, which are what make it popular. How many people are still playing TSC in a vanilla state?

As with everything, this forum is a minority, the subreddit is a minority & Twitter is a minority. None of these places really represent what people are buying and enjoying as a whole, only DTG know that.

My take is that TSC remains successful on the back of many third parties & modders, buying base DTG DLC for that game is no different to what you get with TSW, it’s buggy, undercooked & underwhelming - it’s what everyone else puts into it that makes it a great train sim.

TSW doesn’t have that luxury, and I do think DTG will run into an issue sooner or later with it, you can already see by their marketing & tone that this franchise is in full gear for churning over new player bases, and there’s only so long that can go on.

TSW found alot of success in releasing on consoles, however that is a mainly casual market & the rate of DLC combined with the cost is not casual at all.

I think we aren’t too far away from DTG coming out with another “we know this and that hasn’t been done well so we’re looking at it”. Unfortunately that’s been said too many times before and we always end up back in the same place.

It wasn’t so long ago that DTG were saying they know how important timetables are, yet here we are. The only time things improve is when something else degrades, for this route we got a mostly good pair of trains, but alas we have paid for that in other areas.

 

All well and good, but as we have seen with Rivet, DTG and Skyhook's previous efforts - words are easy, it's actions that will retrieve this DLC from the dumpster.

 

Just to be absolutely clear, I really wanted to own MML. I was very close to buying it before all the issues started getting reported.

I don’t want to keep moaning.

I’m just exasperated by the approach being taken to DLC development and the amount of issues being added on top of existing issues.

How can they ever hope to fix everything when each new release adds dozens more problems to fix? And then the fixes break other things and need more fixes?

I bought every single piece of DLC initially and I am prepared to keep doing so, but it has to be worth the money.