Ny-trenton: Usa Content Is Still Severely Flawed

While it is only 2 miles doesn't actually mean it's easy at all. Scenery is probably not going to take a while but the actual signaling and timetable would be complicated.

 

I understand, but that hasn't stopped them from rushing to produce a sub-standard route as 34 pages in this thread show.

While it's a required part of the route, it would also go a long way (as a goodwill gesture of sorts) to building back the trust they clearly lost with some of the recent issues.

 

There's no reason why they couldn't re-assign those services if they make any of those DLCs. That's what happened with the Baby Bullet on Pennisula Corridor.

 

Can you address my points please?

 

Joethefish, were you able to make use of more pathing options around Secaucus, using the outer platforms for station stops sometimes and the inner tracks for their full lengths between Portal and Allied interlockings for the trains that use the island platform? This, and making use of both westbound platform tracks at Trenton, would help mitigate some of the bottlenecks, I would imagine.

Regardless, THANK YOU for all of your efforts in bringing this more robust timetable to us!!!

 

Here's something I'm looking forward to / finding interesting, the amount of "hiccups" with new trains & AI.
In the current build, or at least when I filmed this, there's this funny (imo) hiccup at Trenton.

When you play Amtrak Northeast Regional 130, you spawn DIRECTLY behind Acela Express 2154.
In real life, this wouldn't happen because Acela 2154 doesn't stop at Trenton.

So between EVERY Acela (with the exception of a few in scenarios) stopping at Trenton and increased NJT services, will DTG look into utilizing "Track 5" at Trenton? The one SEPTA primarily uses nowadays? It's one of the only tracks that isn't used AFAIK in the game.
I just don't want there to be massive pileups / backed up trains at Ham & Fair Interlockings like the Harlem Line DLC had at Mott Haven.

Also, will this lead to more use of interlockings such as Midway, Lincoln, Edison, County (for non Jersey Ave trains), and Delco?

I rode on a number of Amtrak trains in real life heading eastbound that used County when Fair interlocking was busy.
Midway is typically used when 1 or 4 are OOS between Fair & Midway.

 

Something similar occurred with M3s on the LIRR, the M3s were interchangeable with M7s.
So, if Arrow 3s are eventually made for TSW 3, I imagine they would replace existing services, rather than have their own exclusive ones.
That said, I would like for them to at least have a scenario or two. But, we'll have to cross that bridge when we get to it.
Not the Morrisville bridge to the Morrisville Yard though..*insert side eye (in jest)*

Sidenote (slightly unrelated), does anyone know which real life NJT NECL trains are assigned Arrow 3s?
Whenever I take NJT it feels like every other train is an Arrow 3, EXCEPT mine. One day I'll meet my match, one day.

 

Also, one other thing. Will DTG work on the following regarding Secaucus?:

1. Increased use of ALLIED, ERIE, LACK & PORTAL Interlockings. Mainly the use of Track A between ALLIED & ERIE, and LACK & PORTAL.
   
2. Having NJT revenue trains utilize ALL 4 tracks at Secaucus Upper. Currently all NJT revenue services serving Secaucus in the game only use A & B, when in reality they use 3 and 2 as well, ideally when there isn't a train directly behind them.

Here are few photos & videos of NJT trains utilizing the various tracks at Secaucus in real life:

1. https://www.railpictures.net/photo/813392/
2. https://www.railpictures.net/photo/814359/

Here's a track layout of Secaucus Upper & the interlockings surrounding it, it's on Page 64:

• https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/...rak-Infrastructure-ALP-Appendix-B-FY21-26.pdf

Currently I believe only a handful of Jersey Ave deadhead runs use Track A Eastbound between ERIE & ALLIED.
The only diverging move takes place in the "Havoc on Hudson" scenario, where your train diverges from 2 to A to 3 from PORTAL to ALLIED.
I believe this was brought up earlier in the thread as well. It could improve On Time Performance for NJT trains that stop at Secaucus.

 

Thanks Joe for that explanation. It makes sense about the drive from Penn to Secaucus being mostly stuck on the Hudson tunnels. With that said I can narrow down the NJT playable passenger services which would be from the northeast corridor line, and north jersey coast line. Hope to see some freight AI going across the elevated track around hunter yard like we see in the scenario Cab race.that CSX freight train looks fantastic. Also the static freight around stiles yard and NJT trains around the NJ Hudson yard and meadows complex. I have a question,would the LIRR trains be isolated to the two northern tunnels(manhattan shaft line 3 and 4? They wouldn’t interfere with NJT or Amtrak trains? I’m so pumped about this route finally coming to life….

 

It’s more than a bit of a bottleneck. In real life it’s a biiiiiig bottleneck. If in your work you’re seeing stuck stack up there you’re doing something right

 

A train passing each other in aorta waits in the expectation in large quantities

 

Maybe I missed it, but all I see so far is the updated timetable announced, which is awesome, but what about the other bugs like signaling? I'm excited for the updates, but the timetable wasn't the only issue with this route.

 

He says he only handles timetable-related issues. In that case, he should take our points and forward them to whoever handles that stuff.

 

It's a broader question to DTG. I never was intending this was on Joe, and it isn't his responsibility to forward our issues to whomever handles these issues either, that's for the QA and Support team to document and resolve separately as issues are reported in the feedback thread and tickets.

I'm concerned that the larger timetable might evoke more signal problems, and I'm hoping DTG is looking into this. I'm doubtful though given no announcement

 

I suspect that the new services will bring more signals problems. Wanted to bring this forward to this thread to help spread this to hopefully find a long term fix.

 

Thanks Joe for that. I know we are using the 2019 timetable for the NJT but not sure if it will make it easy to use the current timetable for the LIRR since about 35% of the services now go to new Grand Central Madison. on the road map article it mentions no AI traffic at secaucus junction. Is that statement meant for the lower secaucus junction or both? Also it mentions AI electric trains to Hoboken terminal will be included. Do you have the train numbers for those that will be going to Hoboken as AI since I don't see any of the listed 31XX,32,35,37,38,39, and 6XXX trains going to Hoboken terminal

 

Joe can correct me if I’m wrong here, but my guess is that the Hoboken services would represent the 26XX series trains between Hoboken and Long Branch.

 

I completely agree with you. The shorter services for BML are realistic, thus having them means a busier, proper timetable as well. So, please continue adding such shorter services for all future route timetables you do - as this certainly provides more variation and long-term gameplay too from the timetable.

 

I don't file a ticket because it takes them forever to respond.

Considering DTG staff know tickets take a while, Joe forwarding it to the correct department is not a big deal.

Similar to the SPG Derail thread. Matt directly asked me what was wrong, I told him and am still waiting for a reply.

He asked me months ago.

 

It is really good to see the NY-Trenton route being improved with a variety or newer services. I think at some point, we could potentially see add on DLC's available like the Arrow III and NJT ALP45DP with Comet V coaches, which could then be substituted for those services that use other rolling stock. Really good to see that this will be following the prototypical NJT timetable for 2019. In some services, I have seen a few static hoppers along the sidings but to have more static trains in scene will for sure enhance the game play and make the route feel busier

 

The Arrow IIIs and Comet Vs would be great, especially the Arrows. I doubt DTG would make ALP-45DPs because they're typically only used in electric mode on the Northeast Corridor Line and there's no real reason for them to switch to diesel. Which could lead to people saying stuff like "why can't I run the ALP-45 in diesel?" Or "Why does the ALP-45 use diesel in the game when it doesn't use diesel on this line in real life?" and so on.

Sidenote, I find it a bit interesting how a large portion of NJT's ALP-45s run in one mode, either electric or diesel. There may be only a handful of occasions / routes where the locomotives actually switch between their two modes. Meanwhile, in Quebec, Exo regularly uses both modes on their ALP-45s.

 

Probably a stupid question but my peanut brain can’t figure this out right now:

Does this revised timetable also include more PLAYABLE services for NJT stock?

Also, huge thanks to Joe for taking this project on.

 

Yes it is. It's on the roadmap article

 

Like I said I have a peanut brain please be patient thanks

 

You're good. I'm not judging. I only mentioned the article so you can have more details on what to expect.

 

Thanks man
No hard felines

 

DTG Matt Can you confirm if signaling fixes are still being worked on too?

 

The ALP-45s would actually be really useful, because they provide an option for a layer of diesel services on the Raritan Line (to/from Newark). I don't remember if the 51xx-series Raritan trains to/from New York (during off-peak hours) had started by 2019, but they are an example of dual-mode use, as are the 33xx Coast Line trains between NYP and Bay Head. And the 45s (and potential Comet coaches) in electric mode are interchangeable on NJT with the existing 46s and MultiLevels, so could substitute for any of the existing electric services.

 

oh that was bad

 

In addition to the calendar being revised, is the issue of the pantographs being down also being analyzed and will it come with the timetable?

 

In addition to the above ^

I hope the Metroliner Cab Car will get proper livery designer functionality too

 

I'm happy to see the Timetable being worked on, adding the Arrow III's as a DLC Add-on would add even more to make the NEC NYP to Trenton route the BEST US route ever made for the TSW franchise. Hopefully you guys can add CSX Freight layers and also LIRR AI layers to the Timetabled Services to help the environment not seem so empty and not just in the Scenarios and training especially because we play the Timetabled Services more as to where players will complete all of the Scenarios and will more than likely never play them again and will only play the Services... I’d like to see the AI pantograph issue fixed, I've also been seeing alot of AI Multilevel Trains with the opposite side doors open (like the platform is on the right side but all of the doors on the left side are open while the train is moving) seeing NJ Trains also with no marker lights turned on.

 

I think if there were Freight layers for NYT, it should be a mix from both SPG and HSC. as most of the yards in the area are Conrail Shared Assets yards, and they borrow power from both CSX and NS. Though any CSX yards on the route such as the South Kearny Yard should be CSX only.

 

not as a loco dlc. It is better gameplay wise to get a separate route for the alp45dp and layer in so you get more playbility. While the dp runs on this route, we wouldn't be able to do power changeovers for example

 

We even get some rare UP sightings on those tracks as well, probably leased equipment though as is usually in a mixed power set up…. So I wouldn’t expect or want to have those layer in. But, yes, we do see a ton of CSX and NS, so it’d be great to see those layer in somehow.

 

I'm aware the ALP45s are used on a select few NJT trains on the Raritan Valley & NJC Lines for direct trains from NYP to Raritan / High Bridge and Bay Head respectively. I took a look at NJT's schedules for both lines and saw the following that likely use ALP-45DPs in both modes that access the Northeast Corridor.
Raritan Valley Line (51xx Trains / Weekday Schedule - 2023) - 16 Trains

• 5126, 5170, 5132, 5134, 5176, 5150, 5152, 5154 (High Bridge / Raritan To NYP)
• 5121, 5123, 5175, 5127, 5179, 5193, 5155, 5197 (NYP to Raritan / High Bridge)

North Jersey Coast Line (33xx Trains / Weekday Schedule - 2023) - 6 Trains

• 3312, 3320, 3326 (Bay Head to NYP)
  
• 3361, 3363, 3373 (NYP to Bay Head)

I was referring to NECL trains, they don't switch modes, and being that they would be the main operable trains, it's unlikely DTG would invest their time, energy and budget for a locomotive that could be operated in dual mode primarily by AI. Yes, they could be used in strictly electric mode on NECL trains, but it would negate the purpose of dual mode. RVL trains would switch modes most likely at Newark, which if playable defeats the purpose because AI would take over. NJCL trains typically switch at Long Branch, which isn't in the game, and there are only 3 round trips.

I have nothing against ALP-45s. I just find it unlikely that DTG would build this locomotive. If there's a "locomotive" DLC, I think Arrow IIIs are more likely. The closest thing we have to ALP-45s is the glitch that has the ALP-46s running with their pans down

I know the timetable is based off the 2019 version, but I think the current 2023 one helps paint the picture.

 

Idk about anyone else, but the main static train I would love to see outside of LIRR is the Turbotrain in Adams Yard.

 

Oh boy
Looks like I’ll be taking off work for a week when this update drops

 

are you able to say if any of the freight layers added are AI only or can be played?
apologies if this was already confirmed or denied, haven't been able to read through as much as I like.

 

Oh, my goodness!

When I think back to the post- release assertion: " we're not investigating the timetable ", and then see what Joethefish is doing, I feel like belting out a chorus of The Ramones' " I Believe In Miracles ".

 

This is going to be hands down an awesome update If this is successful, I am confident future US passenger routes will be great

 

Joethefish are trains on Seacaucus lower level going to be playable?

 

The lower level is not Playable and no AI. Maybe in a future DLC with either Pascack Valley or Main-Bergen County line which would require Diesel.

 

I posted this on Sunday. Little did I know.......

 

No that makes sense to me. The public timetable for the coast line from September 2019 (https://web.archive.org/web/20200331224023/https://www.njtransit.com/pdf/rail/R0080.pdf) lists only 6 trains on weekday schedules between HOB and Long Branch (3 in each direction). All those ran under the 26XX numbers and as far as I know, used electric (ALP) equipment so that they could be rotated for NYP services. Only the 23XX series trains would run with diesel equipment between Hoboken and Bay Head and none were present in the 2019 timetable (likely discontinued a while back).

 

I think what would make this route stand out is if we had both levels of Seacaucus Junction playable. I also always felt that a NJT route for TSW3 SHOULDN'T have been NYP-Trenton. A branch line would've been nice but I do hope we can get one of those in the future.

For freight, Raritan Valley would be the best branch line to utilize freight as both CSX and NS use many stations there. The freight branches off and it's near Dunellen Station. You also have Bound Brook further up the line where freight runs along its own track besides the NJT station. There's another line with freight, but i'm forgetting its name and Raritan Valley is probably better, anyway.