Layer Issues On Multiple Routes

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by MP600, Apr 21, 2023.

  1. MP600

    MP600 Well-Known Member

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    Hello all. I've just noticed this issue after the most recent patch but it appears to be affecting multiple routes, I'll do my best to explain it clearly and I'll preface all this by saying right out of the gates that I am playing TSW3 on a PS5.

    I first noticed the issue when I went to drive a service on West Somerset and noticed that the Class 52, 45, 40, 37 and 31 all appeared to be missing from being selected in the timetable. Upon looking at the Class 47 I found that the blue NTP variant was also missing, only the green WSR one was available. Immediately I checked my routes and found that every piece of content was still installed and functioning independently (I own every available UK release). Not all layering appears broken however, as I found that the Class 08 (TVL & NTP variants, not Diesel Legends), the Class 101 (TVL only), and the Class 20 are all still available. I also then found that the Class 33 does not have its normal timetable available as this can normally be used for all of the Class 47's runs, instead both it and the Class 20 can only access the same timetable as the Class 09.

    After exploring a little more I discovered that the layering issue appears to exist in more than just WSR. On WCL I cannot access any Type 4s other than the Class 47. The Class 37 is also only available as the WCL variant and can only operate the freight services and one empty coach movement, service 1C79. In an anomaly to all of this however, all other layers on WCL appear to be intact and fully functional. All three Class 08s are available and the Class 101s (NTP and GWE variants) are fully available on the Class 150's timetable.

    The following is a record of all routes on which I have noticed issues, and the current states of them:

    West Somerset Railway
    Class 47 available for usual 7 coach services (WSR only, NTP unavailable)
    Class 09 available for usual 4 coach services
    Class 08 available on 09 layer (NTP & TVL only, GWE unavailable)
    Class 101 available on 09 layer
    Class 20 available on 09 layer only
    Class 33 available on 09 layer only
    Class 31 unavailable
    Class 37 unavailable
    Class 40 unavailable
    Class 45 unavailable
    Class 52 unavailable (Yes that's the crimson WSR exclusive version)

    Tees Valley Line
    Class 37 available for usual coke & steel services
    Class 101 available for usual passenger runs, both 2 and 3 car variants
    Class 20 available for around half of 37's coke & steel services, as well as two limestone services
    Class 31 available for concrete and passenger services only (Correct me if I am wrong but I swear I remember the 31 being able to do more than this)
    Class 08 available for usual shunting services, all three variants

    Sand Patch Grade
    AC4400CW available for helper and autorack services only, and C40-8W coal layer
    C40-8W available for coal services only
    GP38-2 available for manifest and switcher services, and coal service N542
    SD40-2 available for all layers except for C40-8W
    SD40 available for full SD40-2 layer
    All are only in their CSX variants, though this particular thing I am not complaining about.

    East Coastway
    Class 377 available for full timetable (original & 313 versions)
    Class 313 available for full timetable
    Class 66 available for freight services & vintage railtour (EWS versions only, DB unavailable)
    All vintage diesels unavailable

    Glasgow Cathcart Circle
    Class 314 available for full timetable
    Class 66 available for its 1 freight service
    Class 47 available for vintage railtour
    All other vintage diesels unavailable

    West Cornwall Local
    Class 150 available for full timetable
    Class 37 available for freight services only, and ECS service 1C79
    Class 47 available for express & mail services
    Class 40 unavailable
    Class 101 available for full 150 layer
    Class 08 available for full timetable
    LMS Jubilee available for vintage railtours. (An extra fourth service seems to have appeared???)

    Bakerloo Line
    1972 Stock available for full timetable
    1972 stock classic livery available for full layer, plus heritage configuration available for film crew movements.
    1938 stock available in list but heritage configuration unavailable, so service cannot be started


    I looked at the Train Depot list and discovered that as it has no services outside of WSR, the red Class 52 is completely unavailable and appears as though I do not even have it installed. This is where we get into the other half of this issue however. I experimented with loading in stood on the platform on WSR at a moment when a train was in the platform and surprisingly, I saw a Class 47 with a custom livery on it, something only available on the NTP version. With repeated restarting in order to randomly select the locomotive in front of me, all of the engines missing from the timetable selection actually did appear on the AI service and it turns out that this applies to every route mentioned above. The AI appears unaffected, it is only the player selection that seems broken.

    The conclusion I have come to from this is that the issue lies in layers where there are multiple locomotive options for the same service. In the cases of the partially complete timetables for some locos, the only services that remain appear to mostly be those unique to that locomotive. In the case of locos where their only services are layers onto runs that already exist, they become completely unavailable as they have no services left, in the case of the Class 52 this even applies to the route the loco was intended for. As previously mentioned however, the Class 52 in this instance and all other missing locos were able to appear as AI traffic. This also applies to the 1938 stock railtour on Bakerloo, even though this was more of a unique case being a configuration of its own and not a direct variant.

    On a side note, any routes not mentioned in that list appear unaffected, as are all scenarios on every route.

    With all of that figured out, we now come to what I have so far attempted in order to fix this. In order of attempt, I restarted the game, restarted the console, deleted and reinstalled WSR, Class 31 and NTP (these were the first ones I noticed) as their PS4 versions, deleted those along with several other affected addons and reinstalled all in PS5 versions. At this point asides from deleting and reinstalling the entire game and all addons with it, I am at a loss as to what to try next or where this bug has even come from.
     
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  2. TheRagingPOTATO

    TheRagingPOTATO Member

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    Best thing to do, and I'm quite sure the DTG guys will advise the same, is to do a full delete and reinstall despite how much of a pain and time sink that'll be. Wait for everything to be installed then launch the game and if the issue still persists raise a support ticket.
    I can't offer any more than that as personally I haven't had any problems with installed content not appearing since the Add-on Manager patch.
     
  3. MP600

    MP600 Well-Known Member

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    That is something I'm intending to attempt overnight, we'll have to see how that turns out tomorrow. As you said, it's quite a time sink to do.
     
  4. TripleJ814

    TripleJ814 Well-Known Member

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    Could be a side effect of the Addons Manager too.
     
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  5. MP600

    MP600 Well-Known Member

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    This is something I also considered as I had noticed issues with Bakerloo and Sand Patch before, they just didn't really bother me as they're not routes I play too often. It almost appears as though this issue started in one of those routes and gradually spread into the others, I just didn't notice it until it started affecting the classic diesels. That being said though, more recently the game seemed to start bugging out when I was using scenario creator. Sometimes I like to use the training centre to have some locos pull wagons or coaches that we don't normally see, something like a 8f pulling Turbot wagons or a Class 37 pulling a convoy of 15+ RHTT wagons for example. But lately I noticed when trying to slot in particular trains, I would add the service and select the train I wanted but then when the service appeared, it would have no train on it. The only way to get around it was to slot in another train on the service, the original one I wanted would never appear no matter what I tried, even upon starting a fresh scenario. To me that does look like the addon manager failing to mount content.
     
  6. MP600

    MP600 Well-Known Member

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    After a complete deletion and reinstall of the game, containing 57 files adding up to 145GB (bloody hell), the issue remains unchanged on all fronts.
     
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  7. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    They aren't listening. At least 2 threads in Technical Reports detailing this issue, albeit not in the great detail you have provided and absolutely no response from anyone at Dovetail.
     
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  8. MP600

    MP600 Well-Known Member

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    At least I know now I'm not the only one. Might copy in my description here into one of those threads later.
     
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  9. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    How can it be that every time they release a patch they mess up something in the game that was working fine?
    But the worst of all is that later we have to suffer this new error that they have caused for months or even may never come back to fix it.
     
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  10. TripleJ814

    TripleJ814 Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully, if it truly is Addons Manager causing all these layer/substitution issues, they fix it before it gets ported to Xbox and especially PC.
     
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  11. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    The Taurus is also not available at RSN, at MSB and HRR anymore. The BNSF SD40-2 disappeared at Sand Patch.

    Some positive things after the update:

    TGV Duplex is back at SEH.
    UP SD40-2and CN GP38-2 have 1 service at HSC.
     
  12. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Which shouldn't be there. Big road engines like Gevos or SD70s? Sure. But old 645-engine locos only do yard work and locals these days; they'd never be on a cross-country train that fetched up in Pennsylvania.
     
  13. MP600

    MP600 Well-Known Member

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    They'll have to fix it sooner rather than later, as in the case of the likes of the Class 33 and Class 52 they're missing services which they were literally sold to be used on. Those engines aren't having problems layering into other routes, they're having problems layering onto their own route, the route people paid to use them on. The 52 is completely unusable full stop and the 33 is usable on the wrong services for it, as far as I know the only engines that are supposed to run the light or 4 coach services on WSR are the 101, 08 or 09, I think the 20 could run both the 4 and 7 coach ones though.
     
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  14. fabienlimp95

    fabienlimp95 Well-Known Member

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    It was obvious that this will happen as the release of the Add-On manager Update for TSW2 brought those exact problems where layers were missing. It was simply ignored despite several forum threads about it.

    DTG it would have been nice if those fixes would have been tested probably, and more important: FEEDBACK FROM PLAYERS TAKEN SERIOUS and not braking our game even further.

    Content i payed for isn't usable anymore.

    But hey, at least the Intro Video is working proper now ;) !

    I feel like a broken record, I wasn't expecting anything and was disappointed yet again.
     
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  15. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    Looks like they've got their heads in the sand on this one. Very disappointing lack of response.
     
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  16. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    I don't think this issue was caused by the add-ons manager but caused by a recent update.
    Last week I was happily driving the class 37 up and down WSR but now it has gone, along with the class 52 'Western'.
    The 08 BLU, 09 GRN, 101 BLG, 20 RF, 33 GRN and 47 GRN show up correctly.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2023
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  17. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    I remember it being a serious issue across most routes when the TSW2 version of the manager launched.
     
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  18. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    It will be in the same queue as the Rapid Transit BR182 Dosto, Pen Corridor MP36 cab car. Being looked at whenever the subject is raised but never to be fixed.
     
  19. fabienlimp95

    fabienlimp95 Well-Known Member

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    If this will get ignored further i feel forced to contact PS Support. It sounds dramatic but we are talking about (paid) content that is unable to be used again. For me thats a line crossed.

    What i think is especially bad is that those problems where already known, but also ignored. Now they broken our game even more than before and trying to simply ignore it.

    I feel ripped and i feel ignored. Far of from being happy with TSW3. It just confirming for me that i wont spend amy more penny on a DTG product. I'm properly pissed.
     
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  20. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    Hey - sorry to hear you've been having issues. Thank you for your detailed summary.

    Given it sounds like it's come from the latest update (April 17th?), it sounds like a gremlin somewhere has gotten in. I've reported it to the team to investigate.

    (for reference, with the launch of Add-ons Manager (in early March), we didn't see any issues such as this, and that was based on the TSW2 version of the software). So it looks like a byproduct of something that's happened with a recent update, as OP mentions.
     
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  21. fabienlimp95

    fabienlimp95 Well-Known Member

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    Sorey but not Sorry, thats just not true. There were several people in TSW2 that reported widely about Layering issues after the release of add ons manager. DTG just couldn't be bothered to take note of those problems, now we have what a lot of people had concerns about. It just the same old same old BS.

    You owe us a fix for this DTG. Theres no playing around that you have messed with our game yet again. How long are the players waiting to play the Clatrain Cabcar ? MONTHS?

    beyond ridiculous this is.
     
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  22. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    It is perfectly understandable that you won´t be able to remember every post. But still, yes Sir, it was reported from the TSW2 PS4 guinea pigs what outcome the PS4 Patch 1.90 had (which was mainly the first addons manager application).

    And these are a few examples, only from me. In the second thread you reply right below my post. In the third thread is an exchange with Alex about exactly that issue (besides others):

    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/db-br-155-no-journey-mode.63080/#post-586111
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/ps5-add-on-manager.62002/#post-572275
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...t-working-after-patch-1-90.60196/#post-569354
     
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  23. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    I was one of those on XBox reporting the same kind of issues seen here, back then when 1.90 launched, too.
     
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  24. fabienlimp95

    fabienlimp95 Well-Known Member

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  25. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    I stand corrected, my apologies. As you mention, Pipe, we see a lot of threads!

    What I probably should have said is that, 'for the TSW3 version, I've not seen these things mentioned before'. I'll collate these threads above for TSW2.

    Just for reference: some of the threads linked above are from times prior to TSW2 Add-ons Manager patches. It'd be really helpful to understand what are still issues, as it's hard to distinguish what has/hasn't been solved - I believe there were 3 post-release patches at least specifically targeted at initial TSW2 feedback. TSW3's Add-ons Manager was developed with the current form of the TSW2 Add-ons Manager.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2023
  26. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I think there were some patches ...... to patch the patch 1.90. But I´m still left without the BR155 on any german route, except her "home route" RSN. And it continues impossible to cast her into a scenario on other routes, not even "off the rails". I´m totally sure to have driven the BR155 on DRA, RT and DCZ in the past. This on TSW2 on PS4 and PS5(!). The layer limitation on PS4 makes absolut sense IMHO. But to my surprise I see lots more layers and train length in the PS5 version. Yet, and to my disappointment, the beloved DB BR 155 stays limited on RSN. Then again you don´t support anymore TSW2 and that might be the reason why it continues this way. (Maybe, just maybe I should keep quiet about this ...)

    From the top of my head I recall also the missing BR Diesels which were available on ECW for quite a lot of tt services to drive. Now there´re only two railtour services left.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2023
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  27. fabienlimp95

    fabienlimp95 Well-Known Member

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    I'll take this as a "we are currently investigating missing Layers and missing Locos due to the Add-Ons Managar update". At least thats what im missing here. There is a detailed list of whats wrong so a good base to start testing (as we aren't beta or QA) thats obvious up to DTG.

    Seriously, you should be so lucky that you still have guys who invest so much time into detailed reports of problems (like stuff that QA or Beta should have found but yet again failed to do so)

    Would be good to fix this asap, not a year. Thx
     
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  28. mleestrike101delta

    mleestrike101delta Member

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    No white Southeastern 375 either, I have the ROG 37 add-on and (obviously) Southeastern High Speed.
     
  29. Bradley

    Bradley Well-Known Member

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    If addons manager releases like this for Xbox then frankly I don’t want it
     
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  30. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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    I have had this appear on the PS5 version, as well as loco' less consists stuck across various routes as well.

    Hentis
     
  31. Pipe

    Pipe Well-Known Member

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  32. hells.high.lord666

    hells.high.lord666 Well-Known Member

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    I'm with you Brad, can't really call it an Add-on manager when it's locking stuff away that should be available. It seems that things are getting worse instead of better and if Focus top brass read these forums they'll probably regret buying DTG!
     
  33. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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  34. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    In case you missed it: According to the roadmap stream, the missing locos/layers/services on PS4 and 5 were caused by a UI issue, which will likely be fixed with tomorrow’s patch. Thanks to DTG for reacting quickly and listening to our feedback! :D

    Can’t wait to try out some more rolling stock on WSR, which I’ve sort of rediscovered over the past few days.

    Edit: This seems to be a partial fix for Tees Valley, Main-Spessart and West Somerset only according to the patch notes. Let’s hope they can have a look at the remaining routes with issues soon as well.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2023
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  35. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    Happy to report that many of the vintage diesels have also reappeared on routes like Cathcart and East Coastway, which were not mentioned in the patch notes!

    It does seem like everything is back to normal now again (thanks DTG!), but obviously be sure to comment if you find any remaining missing locos/layers/services! :)
     
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  36. Joe-c127

    Joe-c127 Member

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    The ACS-64 is missing from the timetable services on Boston Sprinter in TSW 3 on the PS5.
     
  37. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    For the record: It’s available for me on PS4, although the special retro livery is missing from the selection when clicking on the loco.
     
  38. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    Addon "curator" maybe? If it chooses a select handful of addons you get to see XD
     
  39. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    Oh dear, did they perhaps base it too much on the TSW2 version of the manager, and not take into account all the changes between TSW2 and TSW3 in how your available content is presented within the menus?
     

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